Jump to content

Canadian Catholic student arrested for saying men are different from women.


Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

@Zeitgeist here are my thoughts from my last post again.  You can call me shallow and amoral, or immoral I guess... or you can respond.

1. I am mostly supporting the process of responsible policy making and public engagement here. ... I support the right of the school to make policy either way on this as I have said.

2. I believe in our balanced system of judicial and democratic public engagement.  

3. I have limited faith in the morality of the public sphere.

4. I am morally offended by people who overstate their claims, refuse to listen and lie to get their way - and I'm not saying this is you.

You can’t always play Pontious Pilate and expect not to be called out.  At a certain point you actually have to take a position on an issue, because your refusal to do so actually becomes evasion of responsibility.  It’s hard not to see you as burying your head in the sand or hiding behind platitudes about democracy or process.   It doesn’t matter to me personally, because each person is responsible for his or her own actions.  I’ve said my piece on this issue and will leave it at that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. You can’t always play Pontious Pilate and expect not to be called out.  
2. At a certain point you actually have to take a position on an issue, because your refusal to do so actually becomes evasion of responsibility.  

1. So... I'm judging... Christ... ?
2. If you want me to take a position, I prefer that they accommodate trans students but as I said religious exemption is something I strongly support and have taken a position on, on here, in the past.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the grand scheme of things, this incident is a trivial pile of manure.    Trudeau and gov't squandered 35 million dollars on the Pope's PR visit and nobody says boo.   This little incident with a Catholic schoolboy is nothing but a real diversion from the real issues of Trudeau squandering tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money almost every day. And nobody says beans about it.  Is the Italian mafia running this country or the French papal puppets and their lapdogs across the country?

Edited by blackbird
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, blackbird said:

In the grand scheme of things, this incident is a trivial pile of manure.    Trudeau and gov't squandered 35 million dollars on the Pope's PR visit and nobody says boo.   This little incident with a Catholic schoolboy is nothing but a real diversion from the real issues of Trudeau squandering tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money almost every day. And nobody says beans about it.  Is the Italian mafia running this country or the French papal puppets and their lapdogs across the country?

Well we have a privileged performer running the show who doesn’t really understand what’s in the country’s interests or just how far Canada has been compromised to foreign interests.  It looks like the Trudeau Liberals have looked the other way on China’s interference because it has benefited his government.

This big government overspending interventionist approach has crippled Canadians’ finances for generations. Inflation? Ha ha! It’s all being papered over with grandstanding displays of pomp that are promoted by an obsequious media that’s heavily beholden to government funding.

This country doesn’t encourage free thinking or entrepreneurship because it tries to control and regulate everyone to death at taxpayers’ expense.  I laugh when Freeland pretends to care about productivity then announces the next “targeted” spending program that creates more winners and losers and takes more money and independence away from most citizens.  It’s always about the government-favoured identity group and buying votes.

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Nope - claims all the ones that disagree with her green vision are not left enough to be democrats, and they're bad people. Sounds a lot like you.

Can you give me examples of her saying someone is a bad person for not agreeing with her?

I have a feeling you're just going to deflect again, but let's see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I highly doubt your ability to judge what is or is not a 'fascist' policy.

Would you agree that the Republicans trying to steal the election was fascist in that it was against democracy?

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

the comment you're replying to was about Bill Maher.

Well I don't think Maher is secretly a fascist. He's just really stupid. He criticizes both parties, but he also falls for right-wing culture war lies. But he has pointed out that Trump and his supporters are against democracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Can you give me examples of her saying someone is a bad person for not agreeing with her?

I have a feeling you're just going to deflect again, but let's see.

Sure i can but whenever i give examples you just pretend i never had any.  I mention several people and in the next post you claim i didn't come up with any.

Your definition of 'deflect' seems to be when i tell truth's you don't like. The only one deflecting here is you mirror girl. When you accuse others of it we pretty much know you've realized you've lost the discussion point.

Anyone with three seconds and an internet connection can find examples - AOC is NOT a nice person.  So look a few up yourself and stop hiding behind your lies.

OR - just accept that i'm right and accuse me of 'deflecting' with the truth yet again :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Yes, so what. It's what it is, and the christian, compassionate side of me acknowledges that.

Again, it only really matters in some cases. Women's sports are drawing the line, and I agree. Surgery does not make them women, physically biologically. But they may be considered like women, mentally. Trans- women works for me. On a personal level though I would refer to them as women.

Problem solved... movin on.   ;) 

See how simple that is? A woman is anyone who identifies as one, but there are different kinds of women, much like anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I already explained about the bathroom dilemma. There is not much else we can do. Everyone has rights that should be protected. Blurring the lines and letting them in causes harm to those who are even more vulnerable than transgenders.

But there's no evidence of that. Like I said, the studies on letting people use the bathrooms they want hasn't caused a rise in violence or any other harm.

I see this as being the same as a voter ID law. It's a law that would cause use problems to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

But there's no evidence of that. Like I said, the studies on letting people use the bathrooms they want hasn't caused a rise in violence or any other harm.

I see this as being the same as a voter ID law. It's a law that would cause use problems to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist.

Oh yeah, which studies?

 

20 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

See how simple that is? A woman is anyone who identifies as one, but there are different kinds of women, much like anything.

So if I feel like a woman today I can waltz into the women’s change room after my workout.  Maybe after that I can compete on the women’s hockey team.  I have a mean body check.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

But there's no evidence of that. Like I said, the studies on letting people use the bathrooms they want hasn't caused a rise in violence or any other harm.

And yet we know there are a significant number of incidents where gender-inclusive bathroom policies have been abused to assault women and also to take pictures and other such activites.

So the research appears incomplete.  Or possibly bias. I'm not sure i'd want to be the researcher who released a report saying there was a problem. Probably be the last research grant he got.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You make a lot of assumptions about people.  I don’t know anyone who holds the view that LGBTQ people shouldn’t exist.  

We just had Michael Knowles at CPAC saying that "transgenderism" must be "eradicated" and none of the other right-wing pundits or politicians are condemning him. What Knowles said would be bad at any time, but he specifically said it in a time where there has been a massive spike in violence against LGBT because of right-wing media, as well as Republicans making anti-trans laws all across the country.

Quote

Similarly, a person can change one’s appearance to a different gender from their biological one, but that pretended gender expression doesn’t give a biological male the right to enter the private spaces designated for biological females, because such female spaces are set aside for the safety and respect of biological females.

So what are trans people supposed to do in public spaces? Are they just not supposed to use public bathrooms because they look like their gender, but their biological sex isn't the same as most people in that gender? Is a person who looks like Kim Petras just not supposed to use the bathroom because she's not genetically a female?

And again, the cities that let people use the bathrooms they want have not seen an increase in harm. This is a non-issue that fascists have made into an issue.

Quote

On the matter of pronoun use, one must have a choice on their use, because if we compel people to start violating biological and other scientific truth, we lose our standards for justice itself, as justice must be based in reality.  That doesn’t mean that there isn’t an argument for using transgender pronouns to make a trans person feel better, but making someone feel better isn’t always what’s most important, especially if doing so denies reality.  Think of Galileo’s heliocentric evidence about the Earth going around the Sun.

First of all, words are decided by the community. Words and even grammar change all the time. The idea that words have objective meanings is wrong. Words are generally used in ways that have the most utility. And when it comes to pronouns, it just gives us the most utility to use pronouns in a way that fits with the identity that people identify as. We can't go by genetics, because we can't give everyone we meet a DNA test. We can't go by privates, because we can't make everyone we meet get naked. We can't go by looks, because plenty of cis people would also get accused of not being their gender. There is literally no reason to not just use language the way trans people want, other than bigotry. If you can think of a better explanation, I'm all ears.

Secondly, I agree that people shouldn't be arrested for insulting people. However, when in a public space, I agree that you shouldn't be allowed to insult people based on protected classes. And this is already how it works in most western countries. You can refer to people with racial slurs in America, that's legal. But in a public setting, that can be considered harassment.

Jordan Peterson, being dumb as shit, got famous for misinterpreting a bill. All it said was that trans identity is now a protected class, just like age, race, sex, ethnicity, and so on. You can not legally discriminate against someone for being trans, gay, male, female, cis, black, white, or any other protected class.

Quote

Here’s another way to think of it: Would it serve an obese person for a doctor to pretend that person has normal weight? Would it serve a trans person for a doctor to treat that person as though their gender expression is their biological one?

Nobody is saying that should happen. We're saying gender and sex are different. A doctor would treat Kim Petras as a woman whose biological sex is male.  

Quote

There are treatments for dysphoria beyond just surgery, hormone blockers, etc., but we are told by our own government in Canada to ignore these and to “affirm gender expression” in all cases   It’s a political policy decision that sounds nice on the surface, because people shouldn’t be mistreated.  As a human right, the policy is fraught.

Gender affirming therapy is more than just surgery or meds. It can also be something as simple as dressing in a way that fits your gender identity. Not everyone who transitions gets surgery, some people just socially transition.

See, this is what right-wing media has done. They want us to equate gender affirming therapy with the most extreme measures. This would be like equating all body modification with amputation of the arms and legs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

We just had Michael Knowles at CPAC saying that "transgenderism" must be "eradicated"

And he was very clear - and it was clear from his quote - that he was not talking about people but the politics around it

But of course you HAVE to lie to make your point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

We just had Michael Knowles at CPAC saying that "transgenderism" must be "eradicated" and none of the other right-wing pundits or politicians are condemning him. What Knowles said would be bad at any time, but he specifically said it in a time where there has been a massive spike in violence against LGBT because of right-wing media, as well as Republicans making anti-trans laws all across the country.

So what are trans people supposed to do in public spaces? Are they just not supposed to use public bathrooms because they look like their gender, but their biological sex isn't the same as most people in that gender? Is a person who looks like Kim Petras just not supposed to use the bathroom because she's not genetically a female?

And again, the cities that let people use the bathrooms they want have not seen an increase in harm. This is a non-issue that fascists have made into an issue.

First of all, words are decided by the community. Words and even grammar change all the time. The idea that words have objective meanings is wrong. Words are generally used in ways that have the most utility. And when it comes to pronouns, it just gives us the most utility to use pronouns in a way that fits with the identity that people identify as. We can't go by genetics, because we can't give everyone we meet a DNA test. We can't go by privates, because we can't make everyone we meet get naked. We can't go by looks, because plenty of cis people would also get accused of not being their gender. There is literally no reason to not just use language the way trans people want, other than bigotry. If you can think of a better explanation, I'm all ears.

Secondly, I agree that people shouldn't be arrested for insulting people. However, when in a public space, I agree that you shouldn't be allowed to insult people based on protected classes. And this is already how it works in most western countries. You can refer to people with racial slurs in America, that's legal. But in a public setting, that can be considered harassment.

Jordan Peterson, being dumb as shit, got famous for misinterpreting a bill. All it said was that trans identity is now a protected class, just like age, race, sex, ethnicity, and so on. You can not legally discriminate against someone for being trans, gay, male, female, cis, black, white, or any other protected class.

Nobody is saying that should happen. We're saying gender and sex are different. A doctor would treat Kim Petras as a woman whose biological sex is male.  

Gender affirming therapy is more than just surgery or meds. It can also be something as simple as dressing in a way that fits your gender identity. Not everyone who transitions gets surgery, some people just socially transition.

See, this is what right-wing media has done. They want us to equate gender affirming therapy with the most extreme measures. This would be like equating all body modification with amputation of the arms and legs.

The problem here is that you’re not really referring to reality.  Trans is a pretended gender.  No one is talking about killing trans people.  C’mon.  In fact I don’t think most people of any political stripe except at the darkest extreme would mistreat a trans person.  The washroom piece is solvable through the single-person all-gender washroom. I’m sure if someone using a public washroom looks enough like a gender, they’re going to enter without anyone noticing.  However, to allow anyone who identifies as another gender to enter the opposite biological gender washroom through policy is highly problematic.  It will remain so because of the reservations people have about sharing a washroom or change room with someone of the opposite biological gender, which is fair.   Not every accommodation is reasonable.  That doesn’t make people who don’t make such accommodations fascist, because such accommodations don’t accommodate the interests of other groups.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Would you agree that the Republicans trying to steal the election was fascist in that it was against democracy?

No. Lots of authoritarian types try to steal elections. This need not be facism.

17 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Well I don't think Maher is secretly a fascist. He's just really stupid. He criticizes both parties, but he also falls for right-wing culture war lies. 

The culture war nonsense comes from the progressive Left. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

No. Lots of authoritarian types try to steal elections. This need not be facism.

And it's also important to note that BOTH parties claim the other stole or tried to steal the election depending on who lost.

You've STILL got Hillary going around out and out saying trump stole the election from her. You've got democrats who lost the gobernatorial race claiming SHE'S the REAL governor because republicans stole the election.  And of course we've got trump claiming sleepy joe stole the election.

Polling makes it very clear - whichever side wins the election thinks that the elections are free and fair, whichever side loses thinks the system is rigged and the election was stolen.

BY and large the evidence is that there's fraud in every election but that it never gets close to a level where it would have any real impact at all. It should still be called out and chased down but this talk of 'theft' and crap is more about who lost than anything real.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

 The culture war nonsense comes from the progressive Left. 

I remember that it entered political discourse in 1992

https://buchanan.org/blog/1992-republican-national-convention-speech-148

"My friends, this election is about much more than who gets what. It is about who we are. It is about what we believe. It is about what we stand for as Americans. There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America. It is a cultural war, as critical to the kind of nation we will one day be as was the Cold War itself. And in that struggle for the soul of America, Clinton & Clinton are on the other side, and George Bush is on our side. And so, we have to come home, and stand beside him."

"a militant leader of the homosexual rights movement could rise at that convention and exult: “Bill Clinton and Al Gore represent the most pro-lesbian and pro-gay ticket in history.” And so they do."

"The agenda Clinton & Clinton would impose on America–abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat–that’s change, all right. But it is not the kind of change America wants. It is not the kind of change America needs. And it is not the kind of change we can tolerate in a nation that we still call God’s country."

He wasn't wrong.  They lost the gay battle big time but are winning the abortion one.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I remember that it entered political discourse in 1992

https://buchanan.org/blog/1992-republican-national-convention-speech-148

Based on what appears to be your definition of it i would argue that it was always part of the discourse off and on going back 2000 years or so.

But the CURRENT version which tends to be centered around intersectionality probably dates back more to about 16 - 20 years ago, picking up more steam from about 2012 on.

I know crenshaw wrote about it earlier than that by a bit over a decade but it didn't really catch on right away and it wasnt' really a 'war'.  Suddenly the left looked at it and the authortarians saw an opportunity, and essentially obama ran on it and won. And by that point it was going pretty strong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

He wasn't wrong.  They lost the gay battle big time but are winning the abortion one.

 No. They are temporarily making some progress on the abortion one. If you want to consider it progress.

But American entertainment (and Canadian) has been veering further and further into hectoring and lecturing territory over the last couple of decades, and always from the Left. The heroes, the good guys, the smart people, the ones in charge are always on the Left, and nowadays mostly members of preferred identity groups. It is rare for a known conservative to even be permitted to work in Hollywood. The likes of Disney make every movie and every TV show about how to push forward the grand narrative of social justice. 

Academia is almost entirely governed, guided and controlled by the far Left. Many universities have abandoned standardized tests for entry and even dumbing down material to ensure larger numbers of preferred identity groups get in and succeed. School boards are abandoning merit and scholarship, closing down honors programs. Their programs have been twisted to push the narrative, to guide and indoctrinate to the point half of younger Americans and Canadians now support socialism over Capitalism. Eighty percent of British young believe all their programs are because of Capitalism and 67% want a socialist economic system. Why? Because they've been taught that Socialism is kinder and more egalitarian, that it supports all equally without regard to race or gender (no mention of merit or skills, of course). 

You seize on a temporary setback in one particular subject in the US but ignore the continued leftward movement of society as guided by academia and media. Obama rejected gay marriage until ten years ago. Now only 'dinosaurs' dare to argue against gay marriage. And doing so would get you crucified in many occupations and professions. Every large organization now indoctrinates employees with regular lectures on diversity, equity and inclusiveness and all have hiring and promotion quotas based purely on the goal of achieving perfect statistical equality, regardless of merit or effort.

When some call this 'cultural marxism' it's because of the insistence on equity and not equality, on no one being better or getting further ahead than others based purely on their own effort, intelligence and skills. Everyone is a cog in the machine under Marxism, and under the Progressive Left's view everyone has to fit into a particular box. Black male, indigenous female, lesbian, transgender. You are what your membership in a given identity group says you are and must never diverge from that. And if you're a white, straight male you're an oppressor and the only group unprotected from being insulted or discriminated against. In fact, discrimination against you is encouraged. Because every authoritarian system needs an enemy. And that's you.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

 No. They are temporarily making some progress on the abortion one. If you want to consider it progress.

But American entertainment (and Canadian) has been veering further and further into hectoring and lecturing territory over the last couple of decades, and always from the Left. The heroes, the good guys, the smart people, the ones in charge are always on the Left, and nowadays mostly members of preferred identity groups. It is rare for a known conservative to even be permitted to work in Hollywood. The likes of Disney make every movie and every TV show about how to push forward the grand narrative of social justice. 

Academia is almost entirely governed, guided and controlled by the far Left.  

I stopped reading there.

Identity politics is at best a distraction from issues that are difficult to understand.  The "far" left lost power decades ago. I want to discuss things that are more complicated and can be resolved, which means not morality.

I even try to lay out ways that these moral fights can be resolved, but posters like zeitgeist cast my personal morality into doubt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/25/2023 at 4:46 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Oh yeah, which studies?

Maybe the word 'studies' is used like the word 'science' now...?

That's to say that, once it has been invoked (especially without any attempt at substantiating it), to question it automatically makes you a very bad somethingist.

"'Science' has determined that questioning science is [insert pejoratives here]." 

"'Studies' conveniently show exactly what we expected, because they were done at Berkeley or somewhere similar by sciency people in white coats who are unbiased and intellectual. Any evidence to the contrary can be ignored out of hand because the studies are conclusive and infallible. Only a crazy qanon conspiracist/_______ist would even question the legitimacy of the aforementioned nameless studies. Do you want to be called a _______ist? Just try me."

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,714
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    wopsas
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • Venandi went up a rank
      Explorer
    • Jeary earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Venandi went up a rank
      Apprentice
    • Gaétan earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • Dictatords earned a badge
      First Post
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...