Canadian Catholic student arrested for saying men are different from women.

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well here's the thing.  And some claim that the athlete in quesition has had hormone blockers and therapy etc etc, but at the end of the day a biological male is, on average and in equal circumstances such as training and such, going to be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than a female of similar training.  There IS no getting around that.

"woman's" sports weren't created because of feminist reasons or because women didn't want to share a locker room with men or the like - they were created because biological women are not as physically as capable as men all else being equal in most cases.  That doesn't change just because your perspective on your sexuality changes.

Yes it’s a matter of basic equal opportunity for females.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes it’s a matter of basic equal opportunity for females.

Ironic that the advancements made in women's rights, the acknowledgement that they are good athletes in women's sports over the past several decades, all being unravelled to allow men who are dressed as women to take the primary position.  The movement is driven primarily by men on the left. It's reverse misogyny.

[I am Groot]

18 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Did I not mention Tim Pool in that last post?

Yes. There's zero evidence he's a fascist. Or even knows what fascism is about.

Much like you.

18 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Bill Maher is similar, but I don't think he's a fash. He's a true liberal, but he's reactionary, which is why he ends up siding with the Right so often.

He sides with the middle. They only time you might think he's siding with the 'right' is when he criticizes the nonsensical woke policies of the far Left that are angering so many Americans and driving them over to vote Republican.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

They only time you might think he's siding with the 'right' is when he criticizes the nonsensical woke policies of the far Left that are angering so many Americans and driving them over to vote Republican.

Exactly.

For me, it was Trudeau's woke agenda, which pushed me over the edge to voting conservative. 

Maher is a common sense type of guy. This doesn't make him right or left wing.

Can't stand people who use words like libtard or conservatatard, vs debate on the disagreement. 

It shows a low IQ, and a penchant for hatred and thinking with their emotions vs their logic.

Sadly too many have become policy makers.

[Americana Antifa]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:49 PM, I am Groot said:

Yes. There's zero evidence he's a fascist. Or even knows what fascism is about.

He might not know what fascism is or identify as a fascist, but he pretty much exclusively agrees with and runs defense for fascist politics. For me, that's enough. If a person's politics are fascist, they don't need to actually use the word.

On 3/23/2023 at 4:49 PM, I am Groot said:

He sides with the middle. They only time you might think he's siding with the 'right' is when he criticizes the nonsensical woke policies of the far Left that are angering so many Americans and driving them over to vote Republican.

First of all, if you unironically say "woke," you're automatically wrong.

Secondly, Tim Pool ONLY criticizes both the Left and the Democrats. When it comes to the fascism of the Republicans, he downplays it. It's the "Ukraine and Russia are both bad" strategy.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

He might not know what fascism is or identify as a fascist, but he pretty much exclusively agrees with and runs defense for fascist politics.

No, that's just you projecting what you want him to be on his words. There's simply no truth to it.

1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said:

First of all, if you unironically say "woke," you're automatically wrong.

First - if you dismiss someone's argument as "wrong" because of one word in it - then you have no ability to think rationally and should be considered a child.

2 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Secondly, Tim Pool ONLY criticizes both the Left and the Democrats.

No, he frequently criticizes others and always has.

BUT - interestingly it's always the left who attacks him. The right tends to blow off his negative comments. So that's where a lot of the interaction winds up.

Sorry but you're seeing him through an echo-chamber confirmation bias lens - all you see is when he talks about the left.

[Americana Antifa]

On 3/23/2023 at 6:00 AM, Perspektiv said:

So, the few trans people that are highly passable get to seamlessly blend into society.

What about those that aren't?

I have met trans women that looked better than their female counterparts. But to say this is remotely close to being the norm, would be false.

Which is why it shouldn't be based on looks. Everyone should just identify how they want and society should respect that.

Do you really want a world where a butch cis woman needs to prove she's a cis woman to use the public bathroom? The logical conclusion of this trans panic would be insane.

[Americana Antifa]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:46 PM, CdnFox said:

Apparently criticizing the liberals makes you a facist. Well - clears that up.

Only criticizing anyone to the Left of literal fascists definitely makes you fascist.

On 3/22/2023 at 11:46 PM, CdnFox said:

Tim poole really is slightly to the left. 

So how come he only criticizes liberals and leftists? How come he never criticizes the Right?

[CdnFox]

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

Only criticizing anyone to the Left of literal fascists definitely makes you fascist.

ROFLMAO - no, it just means you criticize the left. THat's actually what you just said and you screwed it up   - and there is nothing left of literal fascists - fascists ARE left.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

So how come he only criticizes liberals and leftists? How come he never criticizes the Right?

He does - you just choose to ignore it

But it would hardly matter. I mean seriously - think about how daft what you're saying is - AOC only critisizes the right - does that make her fascist? Tonnes of news outlets on the left ONLY critisize the right - does that make them facist?

There are those who focus on certain elements of the culture war - and that just means that's where their focus is, it doesn't mean they're facist. Fascism doesn't even have anything to do with being 'critical' of anyone.  You're just using the term to cover up your own fascist tendencies.

[Americana Antifa]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:32 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Well I agree that genocide can happen indirectly through imprisonment, sterilization, and other sick privations, exiles, etc.   Just make sure you’re keeping to the meaning of intentionally trying to eliminate a people, as gen means people; cide means kill.

Yes, that's what the Right wants to do to LGBT people. If it happens, it won't be exactly like other genocides through history, but it will be an effort to wipe them out.

[Americana Antifa]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO - no, it just means you criticize the left. THat's actually what you just said and you screwed it up   - and there is nothing left of literal fascists - fascists ARE left.

You had to lie because you know I'm correct here.

If you criticize leftists, liberals, and conservatives like Mitt Romney who don't go far enough, but never criticize literal fascists, then you're a fascist even if you don't identify as one.

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

AOC only critisizes the right - does that make her fascist? Tonnes of news outlets on the left ONLY critisize the right - does that make them facist?

AOC criticizes Democrats all the time. Please stop getting your talking-points from memes.

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

There are those who focus on certain elements of the culture war - and that just means that's where their focus is, it doesn't mean they're facist. Fascism doesn't even have anything to do with being 'critical' of anyone.

Sure, but if you cover politics for a living, and you're constantly running defense for fascists because you agree with them, you're probably a fascist.

I'm not saying some stand-up comedian is a fascist because they haven't denounced fascism. We're talking about a guy who actively argues in favor of fascists and when he does criticize politicians, it's only the ones to the Left of fascism.

[Perspektiv]

18 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Everyone should just identify how they want and society should respect that.

Identify as one see's fit, but they can't expect people to see you how you see yourself.

My skin is black. I can't identify as white. Sure, I can pull a Michael Jackson, and try to pass as white, but until I did, I can't expect the world over to play along. Expecting it, is delusional at best, crazy at worst.

34 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Do you really want a world where a butch cis woman needs to prove she's a cis woman to use the public bathroom?

No, but a trans woman with male appendages showering in the women's changing room, should. Throwing a couple pigtails and lipstick and identifying as a woman, doesn't make you a woman.

 

 

 

[OftenWrong]

Or as President Obama would say,

"You can put... lipstick on a pig... but it's still a pig."

[Americana Antifa]

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

Identify as one see's fit, but they can't expect people to see you how you see yourself.

Yes, nobody is saying there should be a law defining how you see people. You can see people of different races as sub-humans if you want. However, in certain situations, you can't legally discriminate against them, even if you see them as sub-human.

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

My skin is black. I can't identify as white. Sure, I can pull a Michael Jackson, and try to pass as white, but until I did, I can't expect the world over to play along. Expecting it, is delusional at best, crazy at worst.

The difference there is that race is defined by looks, gender isn't. Looks, biology, culture, and self-identity all play roles to varying degrees in both race and gender. The whole topic of groups and identity isn't that simple.

But in short, the defining feature of race is looks. The defining feature of gender is self-identity.

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

No, but a trans woman with male appendages showering in the women's changing room, should. 

The trans man I showed you, Buck Angel, has female genitalia. So he should be allowed in the women's changing room?

I think the whole division by gender is stupid, but if it must happen, it seems like it makes way more sense to go by gender, not sex.

Quote

Throwing a couple pigtails and lipstick and identifying as a woman, doesn't make you a woman.

Then what does? 

[OftenWrong]

12 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Then what does? 

How about- DNA? What your body was born with, the way your body was made in the womb, is what gives you your organs sexual or otherwise. That's called "woman".

A Trans-woman has to be recognized as something else. Born male and transitioned is not the same physical organism., even if she gets the operation.

I'm all for allowing these people a place in society though, and the right to be reasonably accommodated like everyone else.

But they are not a woman. They're a trans-woman. We need to be clear with words, or everything ends up getting confused.

The difference is only important in certain ways, like in women's sports. Several international sports agencies have announced they will not allow trans-women to compete in all-women sports. I agree with this.

My opinion, we must always protect the rights of even the most weak persons, in this case it is women's rights that most need protecting. Again...

[Perspektiv]

2 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

You can see people of different races as sub-humans if you want.

My skin color is demonstrable simply looking at me. Your logic, is more me being black, and identifying as Japanese.

17 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

The difference there is that race is defined by looks, gender isn't.

Sex is. I look at you walking past me, and you look male, I will make a decision on your sex, based on it. Doctors do it when you're born, and most in society do the  same. You can't expect the world over to cater to 1% of the population's feelings. Support trans children. Its not my job to. The world is cold.

18 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

The defining feature of gender is self-identity.

Self-identity, will stop at that socially. Most will identify one another based on appearance if they don't know you.

21 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

So he should be allowed in the women's changing room?

With your logic, they would. With common sense, they pass as male, so should and effortlessly would be able to go to male washrooms, and nobody would notice him.

You flip flop on logic. Does appearance matter or not?

[OftenWrong]

Really crazy that the washroom is a battlefield. But it is a place where you expect privacy and safety. Even in the men's room, where I use the urinal I appreciate there being a privacy divider. That's a new thing though, not terribly common out here in small town ON. We still have a few piss_troughs.

Point is it's clear we need to do a rethink of washrooms, as a society. Probably cost billions.

Thanks, Trans...

[Perspektiv]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

everything ends up getting confused.

This is what such extremist activists want. Vagueness. Confusion. Harder to counter with facts, when they keep things incredibly murky. Creates fear. Label anyone stepping outside the firmly placed boundaries, as transphobic and you create an environment with very few will want to speak up.

Facts no longer matter. A woman is whatever you want it to be. None of these extremists could come to a consensus as to what the standard should be. Often will counter with "why does it matter to you?" putting the ownership on your shoulders, even though you're in a debate.

What's the point of defining words anymore, or a dictionary?

I've never met a trans person I didn't get along with, but these extremist activists being a megaphone for these people who just want to be allowed to exist, will get heavy push back because of how ridiculous that their rhetoric is, coupled with the fact that none of it is demonstrable.

[Perspektiv]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

But it is a place where you expect privacy and safety.

Instead of forcing biological women to share it with trans women who may look like men, maybe provide a safe space for both to go to?

Forcing safety on one, at the expense of another, will create push back. Apparently, that would make me a TERF.

 

 

[OftenWrong]

13 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

This is what such extremist activists want. Vagueness. Confusion. Harder to counter with facts, when they keep things incredibly murky. Creates fear. Label anyone stepping outside the firmly placed boundaries, as transphobic and you create an environment with very few will want to speak up.

The poster is most likely just another incarnation of a certain persistent troll around here, who likes to portray ridiculous characters for our amusement. We are being taken for a ride...  

There's at least 20 of 'em. All the same guy

[Americana Antifa]

26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

How about- DNA? What your body was born with, the way your body was made in the womb, is what gives you your organs sexual or otherwise. That's called "woman".

That doesn't really have much utility. "Woman" is a social category, but in everyday life, we can't give everyone we meet a DNA test. Should everyone have to take a DNA test to use a public locker room?

Plus, what you're describing is just the "female" sex category. And even that isn't always clear-cut, since lots of females don't have the XX.

26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

A Trans-woman has to be recognized as something else. Born male and transitioned is not the same physical organism., even if she gets the operation.

Sure. White women and black women are also different, but they're both still women. Why should trans women not be recognized as women, just because they transitioned?

26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

They're a trans-woman. We need to be clear with words, or everything ends up getting confused.

That's why we have words like trans and cis. When it comes to things like trans women in cis women's sports, I think there's a good faith conversation to be had there. But it doesn't mean we can't recognize trans women as a type of women.

[Americana Antifa]

48 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

My skin color is demonstrable simply looking at me. Your logic, is more me being black, and identifying as Japanese.

You're actually demonstrating how group identity isn't always that simple. There actually are black people who were born and raised in Japan. There are black people with recent Japanese ancestry. Some of these black people actually do identify as Japanese.

But ok, let's say it's a black guy who identifies as white. The categories of "black" and "white" are defined solely by looks. It doesn't matter that Obama has Irish ancestry when it comes to society seeing him as black, because blackness is about looks, not ancestry or ethnicity.

Gender is different because gender is not defined socially by looks or genetics. Gender is solely defined by self-identity.

48 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Sex is. I look at you walking past me, and you look male, I will make a decision on your sex, based on it. Doctors do it when you're born, and most in society do the  same.

Yes, we agree that sex is based on biology. I'm saying gender is not.

Quote

You flip flop on logic. Does appearance matter or not?

No.

However, if we're going by appearance, then it makes more sense to let people use the locker rooms based on self-identity because trans people usually look as the gender the identify as.

 

And if you're going to say that people who "pass" are the exception, then what you're saying is we should be going purely by appearance. Butch chicks should socially count as men.

Basically, however you slice it, self-identity has the most utility when it comes to gender.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

You had to lie because you know I'm correct here.

Ummm - that is literally what you said ?  Sooo  yeah, not really a lie is it

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

If you criticize leftists, liberals, and conservatives like Mitt Romney who don't go far enough, but never criticize literal fascists, then you're a fascist even if you don't identify as one.

Dumbest comment ever. And this is the internet so it had some stiff competition. The definition of facist is NOT 'doesn't criticize people you don't like".  Sorry.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

AOC criticizes Democrats all the time. Please stop getting your talking-points from memes.

No she doesn't - she claims they're not real democrats first She attacks anyone who doesn't agree with HER thinking of what a democrat should be.

Kind of like how everyone who doesn't agree with you is a fascist.

SO she doesn't attack anyone she thinks is a 'real' democrat - just those ones who are too right wing to be 'real' democrats.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

Sure, but if you cover politics for a living, and you're constantly running defense for fascists because you agree with them, you're probably a fascist.

Still not how it works. Previously explained.

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

I'm not saying some stand-up comedian is a fascist because they haven't denounced fascism.

Yes you are. You're literally saying anyone who doesn't attack fascists is a fascist. And not just fascists but ones you identify as being so only.

So everyone who disagrees with you is a fascist.

It's one of the lefts favorite games - just change the definition of a word that sounds scary and use it wherever you like

[Americana Antifa]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No she doesn't - she claims they're not real democrats first She attacks anyone who doesn't agree with HER thinking of what a democrat should be.

Get back here with those goalposts!

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Kind of like how everyone who doesn't agree with you is a fascist.

I disagree with liberals, but I never call them fascist. My main criticism of liberals is actually that they suck at recognizing and stopping fascism.

Really, this is projection on your part. Fascists claim that anyone who disagrees with them is, as Trump would put it, "a far-left radical socialist."

[CdnFox]

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

Get back here with those goalposts!

Awwww - realized i'm right so you have to try distraction tactics like that? How sad.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

I disagree with liberals, but I never call them fascist. My main criticism of liberals is actually that they suck at recognizing and stopping fascism.

you are fascist, It's kind of hard to believe you when you claim you want to stop them.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

Really, this is projection on your part. Fascists claim that anyone who disagrees with them is, as Trump would put it, "a far-left radical socialist."

no, it's an accurate observation of you. Sorry kiddo - you've made it quite clear. You're a hate filled bigoted racist fascist. You think people who are different than you are lesser people. You want to harm them if possible by force of law. You're pretty much the dictionary definition of fascism.