United Church Affirms Support for Trans Youth

[Michael Hardner]

In the face of a record number of bills centred around transgenderism, the United Church of Christ in the US has affirmed their position supporting trans youth as part of the church of Christ.

https://www.ucc.org/trans-youth-lives-matter-ucc-leaders-commit-to-love-and-justice-in-action-amidst-anti-lgbtq-bills/

 

For me, this controversy feels*generated.  It ticks all the right marks to get reactions from certain constituencies.

I expect it will pass, but these milestones are significant.

[I am Groot]

It's not like the United Church believes in God anymore. Or the bible. Or... anything.

I don't think it's ever not going to be controversial to tell six-year-old girls they might just be boys, or vice versa, or encourage ten or twelve year-olds to change genders while keeping it secret from parents. I'm with this chick on the subject.

I suspect the proliferation of this sort of nonsense is likely to put Trump or a Trump substitute in the White House in a couple of years.

[Michael Hardner]

1. Of course it's controversial.

2. Informing parents is a separate question.  I agree with it.

3. I think that it's arrogant to assume that those who disagree with you on moral matters such as these are just.... wrong.  Our democracy was built on pluralistic tolerance.

[Dougie93]

46 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

In the face of a record number of bills centred around transgenderism, the United Church of Christ in the US has affirmed their position supporting trans youth as part of the church of Christ.

https://www.ucc.org/trans-youth-lives-matter-ucc-leaders-commit-to-love-and-justice-in-action-amidst-anti-lgbtq-bills/

 

For me, this controversy feels*generated.  It ticks all the right marks to get reactions from certain constituencies.

I expect it will pass, but these milestones are significant.

it's not for me to say how any other Christian worships

that would be Popery

and I am a Protestant

in terms of "transgenderism"

it is not mentioned in the Bible at all that I can see, it doesn't appear in any scripture

apparently the ancient Christians had no position on it either way

so I don't know what I would invoke as a proscription against it

Jesus did however throw Himself between a prostitute and an angry mob wanting to stone her

so He was clearly against mobs taking it upon themselves to punish what they viewed as being immoral

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dougie93

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. I think that it's arrogant to assume that those who disagree with you on moral matters such as these are just.... wrong.  Our democracy was built on pluralistic tolerance.

That's pluralism all right, see nothing, do nothing, say nothing.  Anything goes.  Also called liberalism or progressivism.  No moral foundations means the fall of society.  Anybody who questions anything is arrogant.  That sounds pretty dictatorial in itself.

Edited March 12, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

and I am a Protestant

Since your beliefs do not meet the definition of Protestantism, prove it.

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

in terms of "transgenderism"

it is not mentioned in the Bible at all that I can see, it doesn't appear in any scripture

Lots of words don't appear in the Bible, such as Trinity, but the Bible still teaches it.   The word transgenderism is not in the Bible, but the idea of changing genders and multiple sexual orientations is very contrary to the Biblical understanding.  The Bible is clear.  There are only two genders, male and female.  Biology demonstrates it is the way a person is born.  It is not something that is changed on a feeling or whim or social construct.

 

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

apparently the ancient Christians had no position on it either way

Probably because such a thing was unheard of in ancient times.

 

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

so He was clearly against mobs taking it upon themselves to punish what they viewed as being immoral

Of course nobody should take it upon themselves to punish immoral behavior.  

Edited March 12, 2023 by blackbird

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Since your beliefs do not meet the definition of Protestantism, prove it.

prove it to whom ? 

prove it why ?

prove it how ?

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I suspect the proliferation of this sort of nonsense is likely to put Trump or a Trump substitute in the White House in a couple of years.

 don't threaten me with a good time

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

In the face of a record number of bills centred around transgenderism, the United Church of Christ in the US has affirmed their position supporting trans youth as part of the church of Christ.

https://www.ucc.org/trans-youth-lives-matter-ucc-leaders-commit-to-love-and-justice-in-action-amidst-anti-lgbtq-bills/

 

For me, this controversy feels*generated.  It ticks all the right marks to get reactions from certain constituencies.

I expect it will pass, but these milestones are significant.

It is my understanding that the "United Church of Christ" in the US has no relationship or similarity to the United Church of Canada. I may be wrong about that, but that is my understanding.

We need to educate people on why some people are transgendered. I see demonstrations on this forum every day that many people have no understanding of the differences between transgender, cross dressing, drag and transvestitism.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[blackbird]

45 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

prove it to whom ? 

prove it why ?

prove it how ?

You claim you are a Protestant but deny central beliefs.  Therefore state your beliefs. 

Not being a Catholic, does not mean one is a Protestant automatically.   One must have certain Biblical beliefs to be a Protestant.  What Biblical beliefs do you have?

Edited March 12, 2023 by blackbird

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You claim you are a Protestant but deny central beliefs.  Therefore state your beliefs. 

Not being a Catholic, does not mean one is a Protestant automatically.   One must have certain Biblical beliefs to be a Protestant.  What Biblical beliefs do you have?

tell me what the required Biblical beliefs are, and I will say If I adhere to them

[blackbird]

32 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

We need to educate people on why some people are transgendered.

"

The Bible knows no other gender categories besides male and female. While men and women in Scripture may express their masculinity and femininity in a wonderful diversity of ways, Scripture still operates with the binary categories of men and women. You are one or the other. The anomaly of intersex individuals does not undermine the creational design, but rather gives another example of creational “groaning” and the “not the way they are supposed to be” realities of a fallen world. Likewise, the eunuchs in Matthew 19 do not refer to sexless persons, but to men who were born without the ability to procreate or who were castrated, likely for a royal court (for more on the challenge of intersex, and the question of eunuchs, see Denny Burk, What Is the Meaning of Sex?, 169-183).

The biblical understanding of male and female is more than just an assumption writ large on the pages of Scripture. We know from Genesis 1 and 2 that the categories of male and female are a part of God’s design for humanity. Indeed, when God created the first human pair in his image, he created them male and female (Gen. 1:27). He made the woman to be a complement and help to the man (Gen. 2:18-22). Far from being a mere cultural construct, God depicts the existence of a man and a woman as essential to his creational plan. The two are neither identical nor interchangeable. But when the woman, who was taken out of man, joins again with the man in sexual union, the two become one flesh (Gen. 1:23-24). Dividing the human race into two genders, male and female—one or the other, not both, and not one then the other—is not the invention of Victorian prudes or patriarchal oafs. It was God’s idea."

What Does the Bible Say About Transgenderism? (thegospelcoalition.org)

The western world is in great confusion right now.  Many people have fallen for the woke, progressive agenda and believe all the nonsense.   

[blackbird]

12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

tell me what the required Biblical beliefs are, and I will say If I adhere to them

Basic principles of the Reformation:

1.  Salvation is by grace through faith alone (in Jesus Christ alone) and not of works.

2. That is faith in Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior.  (believing that he is the Son of God, the third person of the Trinity, and therefore is God)

3.  Belief that he was crucified, died, for the sins of the world and rose bodily from the dead the third day.

4.  The Bible is the only infallible rule of faith and practice for the Christian.

That is what comes to mind; there could be some other points I forget at the moment that may come to mind.

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Basic principles of the Reformation:

1.  Salvation is by grace through faith alone (in Jesus Christ alone) and not of works.

2. That is faith in Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior.  (believing that he is the Son of God, the third person of the Trinity, and therefore is God)

3.  Belief that he was crucified, died, for the sins of the world and rose bodily from the dead the third day.

4.  The Bible is the only infallible rule of faith and practice for the Christian.

That is what comes to mind; there could be some other points I forget at the moment that may come to mind.

that doesn't sound right to me

the five Solas are :

Sola Scriptura, by scripture alone

Sola Fide, by faith alone

Sola Gratia, by grace alone

Solus Christus, through Christ alone

Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone

your four principles are not the same, and you left out the fifth one

 

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

that doesn't sound right to me

the five Solas are :

Sola Scriptura, by scripture alone

Sola Fide, by faith alone

Sola Gratia, by grace alone

Solus Christus, through Christ alone

Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone

your four principles are not the same, and you left out the fifth one

 

What I stated is exactly what the five Solas state plus the Five Solas add a little more information. 

 I told you I might not remember them all and was just going by memory. 

You must have looked the official statement up for the five Solas.  I was just going entirely by memory.

I actually expanded on the meaning a bit you will notice in one or two places.

Nothing I said contradicts the Five solas.

Edited March 12, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

your four principles are not the same, and you left out the fifth one

Of course what I said is covered in the Five solas.  I did not say the fifth one  because I was not reciting the five solas to begin with.  I told you I was simply stating the principles of the Reformation and stated I may have left something out. 

Now you can state what you believe. 

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What I stated is exactly what the five Solas state plus the Five Solas add a little more information. 

 I told you I might not remember them all and was just going by memory. 

You must have looked the official statement up for the five Solas.  I was just going entirely by memory.

I actually expanded on the meaning a bit you will notice in one or two places.

Nothing I said contradicts the Five solas.

I find it odd that you wouldn't know the five Solas off the top of your head

also, you are writing all sorts of your own interpretations into the principles, beyond their Latin meaning

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Of course what I said is covered in the Five solas.  I did not say the fifth one  because I was not reciting the five solas to begin with.  I told you I was simply stating the principles of the Reformation and stated I may have left something out. 

Now you can state what you believe. 

I only adhere to the Latin

I view all your additional interpretations as being unfounded

[blackbird]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

I find it odd that you wouldn't know the five Solas off the top of your head

also, you are writing all sorts of your own interpretations into the principles, beyond their Latin meaning

I was stating the basic Christian beliefs.  It is not a requirement to have the Five Solas at the top of one's mind.  They are a good summary, but I stated the basic beliefs as well.

Latin has nothing to do with it.  Latin was used by the false Romanism church.  Original Scriptures were not written in Latin.  Only in the false church was Latin the language priests used and most people could not understand in the last thousand years.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

 

Latin has nothing to do with it.

you assert "by infallible scripture alone"

that is not what the Sola says

that would be "Sola scriptura infallibilis"

 

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

I only adhere to the Latin

I view all your additional interpretations as being unfounded

Latin has nothing to do with Protestant beliefs or Christianity.  Your claim is absurd.  Latin was used by the Catholic church and in the Latin vulgate that only priests who were trained in Latin could understand.  Protestants never used Latin.  Where did you get that idea?

My interpretations can be verified in any Protestant church confessions as being absolutely true.   You are not making sense here.   Check and Protestants statements of faith,  Baptist, Reformed Presbyterian, etc.   

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

you assert "by infallible scripture alone"

that is not what the Sola says

that would be "Sola scriptura infallibilis"

 

Come on Dougie93,  you're not making sense here.  

[Dougie93]

Just now, blackbird said:

Latin has nothing to do with Protestant beliefs or Christianity.  Your claim is absurd.  Latin was used by the Catholic church and in the Latin vulgate that only priests who were trained in Latin could understand.  Protestants never used Latin.  Where did you get that idea?

My interpretations can be verified in any Protestant church confessions as being absolutely true.   You are not making sense here.   Check and Protestants statements of faith,  Baptist, Reformed Presbyterian, etc.   

you principles do not align with the Solas

what you say is different, you mention things which are not invoked by the Solas

and you left out Solas as well

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Come on Dougie93,  you're not making sense here.  

I know the five Solas of the Reformation

while you don't seem to actually

so I don't know what to think

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

you principles do not align with the Solas

what you say is different, you mention things which are not invoked by the Solas

and you left out Solas as well

Nonsense!  I already explained it all.   Nobody is required to recite the Solas.  I agree with them and stated the same kind of thing in my own words.

 

Now tell us what you believe IN YOUR OWN WORDS.

Edited March 12, 2023 by blackbird