Are there real Canadians here?

[herbie]

Oh FFS keep up the alarmist BS. Three people died out of 38 million... so it happens all the time.

Tiers happen on EXTENDED BENEFITS your employer pays for, if you have a shitty employer you might have to pay more for prescriptions, dental. glasses, etc. Join a union FFS. And the whole point of transfer payments and federal health funding is to prevent different standards province to province.

If you live here, you know how it works, you know bloody well there's post Covid burnout, retiring staff and years of under funding behind the problems. And they are solveable problems. not reasons to abandon the system in place.

Go ahead name call the pulling out of ass communist, I'd truly rather be exactly that than a suck-up-to-everything-American-you-can pseudo-citizen.

[blackbird]

Over ten thousand Canadians died during delays and cancellations through the 2020-21 COVID-19 pandemic, a new SecondStreet.org report reveals.  These were from causes other than Covid.  These people died because of lack of treatment for cancer, heart conditions, etc., not from Covid.

Edited March 6, 2023 by blackbird

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Oh... too 'communist' for you is it? Well no one's stopping you from trotting off to the USA and shelling out from your own pocket.

Which you can't, cuz you ain't rich.

Another Joe Worker who'll stand up for someone else's right to get wealth and priviledge.

It's amusing that you point out the enormous flaw in your lunatic belief in equal treatment even as you pretend it doesn't matter.  Yes indeed, the rich do trot off to the US to get treatment. They also have special clinics that don't use public healthcare dollars in Canada. None of your 'no one can buy better healthcare here' bullshit works with the rich. They do get better healthcare. Of course, they do! The people who don't are the middle class. The middle-class guy who is in constant pain for a year and a half being treated with opioids, who would certainly rather put money into getting a knee or hip replacement than buying a new sofa or taking a vacation down south, but can't because the communists won't let him. 

You're devoted to a principle which has never worked and will never work. But that doesn't seem to bother you. You'll screw everyone else in your determination to somehow make the impossible dream come true.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Oh FFS keep up the alarmist BS. Three people died out of 38 million... so it happens all the time.

Tiers happen on EXTENDED BENEFITS your employer pays for, if you have a shitty employer you might have to pay more for prescriptions, dental. glasses, etc. Join a union FFS. And the whole point of transfer payments and federal health funding is to prevent different standards province to province.

If you live here, you know how it works, you know bloody well there's post Covid burnout, retiring staff and years of under funding behind the problems. And they are solveable problems. not reasons to abandon the system in place.

Go ahead name call the pulling out of ass communist, I'd truly rather be exactly that than a suck-up-to-everything-American-you-can pseudo-citizen.

Dying to see a doctor in a Provincial hospital is NOT a normal thing, despite what you say, everyone from the PM, he's liberal as well....  to premiere think it is a problem, But hey it was only three right...lets talk when it hits a million .. or more

The point is there are many classes of health care across Canada despite what you claim, you can atleast be honest and stop all the powder coating when talking about our health services, not to mention the out of the world waiting times, that now in nb are well over 20 hours... and if you don't have a family doctor that is what your stuck with, waiting, and waiting....

In case you have not been following the health care crises , the provinces spend that money any way they see fit...and with no federal control there is not much you can do to the provinces... Not every province has the same level of health care nor is it funded the same per capita. So ya there is a huge difference in health care across the country. 

I did not say we had to abandon the system , thats all you, i was calling out the rest of your BS... and in doing so does not make me an American or anything for that matter....And i don't recall calling you a communist, is that your preferred pronoun ?  This is what makes communication with the left so difficult all the yelling and screaming.

There are many things i like about the American health care system, there are plenty of pros and cons with are as well. Currently if you want better care many Canadians are going south to get it , paying the cost themselves ... another red flag...how many do you need before you see our system is broken, and needs a lot of work.

 

[herbie]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Dying to see a doctor in a Provincial hospital is NOT a normal thing,

Did I say that? No, I said the exact opposite, didn't I? And as there's no pronoun like 'vous' in English, you can safely assume I'm not particularly addressing you. Disassociate from the usual rightwing circle jerk that infests this board and address the points made instead of something else.

Others have posted their gripes solely hoping to feed their MAGA buddies more BS to scare Americans back under the bed. The whole world uses similar medical systems, except for the USA. That means they're the odd man out yet continue to spin circles on the floor pointing at everyone else and shouting No! No! You're all socialists!

 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

It's important to note that the figure of "over ten thousand" deaths is an estimate based on a report from SecondStreet.org

There are other news websites.

This one gives a similar figure.

11,581 died after being put on healthcare waiting lists in 2020-2021 | True North (tnc.news)

Some websites have lower figures.

8,400 Canadians died while waiting for healthcare (yahoo.com)

Whether it is 11,581 or 8,400 it is still a catastrophe.

Over 10,000 Canadians died from 'excessive waiting periods' in health care since 2019: Report | The Post Millennial | thepostmillennial.com

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

. The whole world uses similar medical systems, except for the USA. 

This is simply not true. Canada's system is based on Cuba's. No one else in the world uses it but us and North Korea.

Of course, it works well for Cuba because they can set the prices and salaries and it's not that easy to leave. It does not work in Canada.

[herbie]

17 hours ago, blackbird said:

ver 10,000 Canadians died from 'excessive waiting periods' in health care since 2019: Report

Yes they did, my daughter was almost one of them. My wife did die, perhaps could've lasted longer if she'd been able to get in for tests sooner.

Because of Covid cases tying up the hospitals.

Not because the system is 'no good', because nobody anywhere was prepared for the volume of patients. And the aftereffects are still lingering.

And with 1/3 the Covid deaths per capita over the glorious US private system, some people act like ours is terrible.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, herbie said:

Not because the system is 'no good', because nobody anywhere was prepared for the volume of patients.

Many would argue that the system is no good specifically because it took so few additional patents to overwhelm the system entirely.  The fact is that while covid did throw an unusually high number of people at the system it should be able to cope with a surge in patients without breaking down completely.  I mean they pulled every trick to increase capacity, shut down operations, etc etc and it still wasn't enough.

And why would there still be lingering aftereffects? the various levels of gov't have had 3 years now to identify problems and weaknesses and address it. Most did nothing, The feds did nothing. Except cut the percent of healthcare funding.

No, you can't just blow off the problems we've got as covid'. There are major issues with our system across the country and the model we use very clearly does not work well enough.

[herbie]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

because it took so few additional patents to overwhelm the system entirely

WTH "so few"? Who are you trying to kid with that BS?

[CdnFox]

32 minutes ago, herbie said:

WTH "so few"? Who are you trying to kid with that BS?

Anybody with a brain and the ability to count without taking their shoes off will know it. No 'kidding' necessary.

The numbers are not easy to come by but the actual number of covid patients in icu being treated FOR COVID and not something else was pretty small. A few hundred patients across the province was more than enough to bring the system completely to a standstill.  That's WITH cancelling surgeries, kicking out slightly less sick people, filling the hallways, etc.

That's really nothing. Our system should be able to cope with a decent sized short term influx.  An earthquake could leave 2000 people in need of icu care - apperently that would require canada's entire excess capacity.

And now we're down to like 14 people in icu WITH covid (which isn't the same as because of it) - so why would there still be a problem?

The simple answer is our system was already grossly underperforming before covid, and very little has been done to correct that. It was already falling apart, now it's falling apart even more.

So that's a real issue. We have to make changes to get things back on track.

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, herbie said:

Not because the system is 'no good', because nobody anywhere was prepared for the volume of patients. And the aftereffects are still lingering.

There are serious problems in the public health care system simply because it is run by an inefficient bureaucracy and politicians.   In our town, we have a walk-in clinic that is woefully inadequate for a town of 20.000.  Yet they are only open for 4 hours per day.  I heard they only take about six people per hour because they only have one doctor.  That is an average of about ten minutes per patient.   I guess the rest of the people don't get to see a doctor and don't get treated. It is a disaster.  It's funny how some people want to blame the failing public health care system entirely on Covid.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by blackbird

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

That is an average of about ten minutes per patient. 

When I worked in medical, 10 mins was the time allotted for appointments.  That was standard for every doctor.

We used Wolf Medical software for scheduling and billing, etc - 10 min appointments are built into the software.

[blackbird]

23 minutes ago, Goddess said:

When I worked in medical, 10 mins was the time allotted for appointments.  That was standard for every doctor.

We used Wolf Medical software for scheduling and billing, etc - 10 min appointments are built into the software.

My point was that the clinic with only one doctor for four hours a day is totally inadequate for this area with a town of about 20,000.  Lots won't be able to get in and will be turned away.

[Goddess]

14 minutes ago, blackbird said:

My point was that the clinic with only one doctor for four hours a day is totally inadequate for this area with a town of about 20,000.  Lots won't be able to get in and will be turned away.

OK.  I thought you were including "10 min appointments" as evidence of a crumbling system, so I was pointing out that's been pretty standard for many years and is built into medical software.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

[OftenWrong]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:33 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. That's a very Canadian thing.

I hope it is mainly from the point of view that we never want to be like that.

[herbie]

Covid only caused a few hundred extra patients across the province did it?

Well look at the actual stats, it was far more than that per day at the peak, and they aren't in and out the same day!

Name me one country on the planet where hospitals weren't overwhelmed. If you can find one, it'll be one more than you have to make any comparisons.

[OftenWrong]

Most of the time our hospitals were underwhelmed out here in eastern ON during covid. At the peak they had like 30 people. On most days 0-3 people.

For that they shut down diagnostic procedures and delayed non-emergency surgery. People who needed a heart operation, or cancerous tumour removed were forced to wait weeks or months longer for their operations. Meanwhile their cancer gets to grow, so essentially a percentage of them are committed to death.

Nurses quit in droves, shortage of lab technicians. They wrecked the system by their ineptitude. And people have died.

Pathologists already see the data showing a large gap in cancer diagnosis during covid. People went undiagnosed for longer then they should because the screening services were shut down. As a result when  they finally do get diagnosed the disease has progressed to a later stage. Those things were done by the government under direction of their so-called health advisors.

[OftenWrong]

"Are there real Canadians here?"

No. In fact there are no more real Canadians, anywhere.

The last Canadian died

when they cancelled Don Cherry.

When they re-elected a PM who wore blackface

not once but numerous times.

When the Mounted Police ran over a little old native lady

who was handicapped

in a wheelchair.

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, herbie said:

Covid only caused a few hundred extra patients across the province did it?

Well look at the actual stats, it was far more than that per day at the peak, and they aren't in and out the same day!

The stats will be for how many are in per day - not how many new admittances per day.  But maybe i'm wrong - go ahead and post the stats for the various timelines and we'll compare it to reports for those times for how overloaded the er's were.  I think you'll find i'm right but hey - the stats are the stats so post 'em and we'll find out.

30 minutes ago, herbie said:

Name me one country on the planet where hospitals weren't overwhelmed.

well, the united states for the most part would be one. they often had a lot of pressure, they were strained, but they didnt' get overwhelmed like ours did. You didn't see them calling in the military or flying people to other states becuase every ounce of capacity had been reached.

Sweden's system did better too, and they didn't have lockdowns. Again - strained (as you'd expect) but not like we had.

I'm sure there's plenty of other countries too.

But it's Irrelevant for 3 reasons.

1 - you would also have to compare rates of infection. If they had a larger surge they may have gotten overwhelmed eventually but with much larger numbers.

2 - the fact that another hospital in another country got overwhelmed even in similar circumstances wouldn't make it ok for ours to be that bad, it would just mean theirs was that bad

3 - almost everywhere around the world has returned to normal - ours hasn't.

So - you got an answer but your question was pointless.

 

Now - lets see those stats of yours and we'll take a look at bc

 

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Most of the time our hospitals were underwhelmed out here in eastern ON during covid. At the peak they had like 30 people. On most days 0-3 people.

For that they shut down diagnostic procedures and delayed non-emergency surgery. People who needed a heart operation, or cancerous tumour removed were forced to wait weeks or months longer for their operations. Meanwhile their cancer gets to grow, so essentially a percentage of them are committed to death.

Nurses quit in droves, shortage of lab technicians. They wrecked the system by their ineptitude. And people have died.

Pathologists already see the data showing a large gap in cancer diagnosis during covid. People went undiagnosed for longer then they should because the screening services were shut down. As a result when  they finally do get diagnosed the disease has progressed to a later stage. Those things were done by the government under direction of their so-called health advisors.

all more signs of a system that wasn't working.

Other places in ontario were horribly overwhemed but obviously if you're correct the system couldn't even 'load balance' properly.

[DMGregoire]

Health care is a blend of provincial and federal government.  Funding flows to the provinces from federal, but the provinces oversee/administer the programs/system.

In this way you will see a lot of variety.

Pros- you're not going to go bankrupt, and if you're having a health crisis that is life threating you will likely get rapid and good treatment (although due to lack of staffing in some areas- some emergency rooms have struggled to stay open at times)

Cons- for some things you might wait forever to get treatments and surgeries and it is hard to get a family doctor in many areas.  Because they system is publicly funded you are not treated like a customer by many within the healthcare system.  Some workers will vent their frustrations and anger at you if you ask questions like how much longer will you be waiting in emergency (many have signs that say it will take as long as it will take so don't ask).  This is where the states might have it better.  If you do have insurance then you are likely getting treated with better customer service and getting the service more quickly.

[CdnFox]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:47 AM, DMGregoire said:

Health care is a blend of provincial and federal government.  Funding flows to the provinces from federal, but the provinces oversee/administer the programs/system.

In this way you will see a lot of variety.

Pros- you're not going to go bankrupt, and if you're having a health crisis that is life threating you will likely get rapid and good treatment (although due to lack of staffing in some areas- some emergency rooms have struggled to stay open at times)

Cons- for some things you might wait forever to get treatments and surgeries and it is hard to get a family doctor in many areas.  Because they system is publicly funded you are not treated like a customer by many within the healthcare system.  Some workers will vent their frustrations and anger at you if you ask questions like how much longer will you be waiting in emergency (many have signs that say it will take as long as it will take so don't ask).  This is where the states might have it better.  If you do have insurance then you are likely getting treated with better customer service and getting the service more quickly.

You're correct of course but i'm not sure i see the relevance to the subject at hand, other than just a general commentary.

[RedDog]

You can thank the TrootOWE’s (and central Canada) for this. The ruin of a nation. I get on a transit bus amongst 8 or 9 and am the only Caucasian. Canada is lost.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, RedDog said:

You can thank the TrootOWE’s (and central Canada) for this. The ruin of a nation. I get on a transit bus amongst 8 or 9 and am the only Caucasian. Canada is lost.

Why does it matter who catches a bus?