Don Martin: The Trudeau tipping point is within sight

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You didn't read my post: I didn't say the culture wouldn't change.

I read your post fine.

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Ok - but you are imbuing my answers with an affection for Trudeau.  Why is that ?

Your answers aren't honest and are polerized against conservatives. That is most often a liberal trait. NDP supporters also don't like conservatives but they tend to be more honest and upfront about it.

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. I am - I ask again how you think the culture would change.

What is the point in having a lengthy discussion if you don't intend to be honest about it. The CBC plays a significant role in our culture and it's elimination will bring change.

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. No.  Not a Liberal supporter.

Yeah -  i don't really believe that to be honest. And it's pretty common for liberal supporters to pretend neutrality on forums to pretend to be a 'non partisan' viewpoint

But your comments and actions don't really jive with your stated position here.

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

5. No, the (figurative) assassinations will be to the populists who boosted PP at the start.  Kind of like Doug Ford.

Why would hiring gays or the like 'assasinate' those who supported PP from the start? The cpc has supported gays since about 2006. The first cpc candidate i volunteered for was gay, At the policy convention where gay marriage came up there was strong support for the gays. I supported PP"s campaign and I'm pro gay rights.

Let me guess - you're one of those liberals who actually believes justin's propaganda that conservatives hate gays right? Sigh. Yeah - definitely not a liberal supporter. Gotcha.

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

6. Ok - well social democrats favour public ownership, if you want to get pedantic.  I maintain that the Liberals have been pro-business for decades, following the trend as outlined by Fukiyama.

Well - yes and no. You see - socialists of any type are willing to allow private business PROVIDED that a) the gov't controls it to the point where they might as well own it - thus taking no risk but still exercising control and b) provided they can tax the bejeezuz out of it so that they might as well own it and again do so with no risk.

So while they might be willing to allow people to have their name on the business the end result is still the same.

What the liberals have been fond of us siphoning off gov't money into businesses which will do them favours or give them a benefit, either as a party or personally. They also do that with charities. etc etc.

so they're socialist in the sense that they want to control and tax businesses beyond the needs of the gov't, but i guess you'd say they were just corrupt in that they put a lot of that money in their pockets one way or another,

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, myata said:

 Let's see if it'll make any difference!

see the underlying reason why almost everyone is on the left now

everything is paid for simply by printing more money

the only thing that will stop the left

is the negative consequences of inflating the money supply

conservatism doesn't sell, until people suffer the consequences of left wing economics

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

see the underlying reason why almost everyone is on the left now

everything is paid for simply by printing more money

the only thing that will stop the left

is the negative consequences of inflating the money supply

conservatism doesn't sell, until people suffer the consequences of left wing economics

Admittedly that's not untrue.  "When times are tough people turn to the tories".  Traditionally the conservatives do best after the liberals or ndp has done real harm to the economy and someone has to clean up.

[Dougie93]

Just now, CdnFox said:

Admittedly that's not untrue.  "When times are tough people turn to the tories".  Traditionally the conservatives do best after the liberals or ndp has done real harm to the economy and someone has to clean up.

the problem for PP is that it is way too far along for him to do what he is promising

it is a totally debt based economy now, to the point where money is simply credit

PP promises to "restore sound money"

but that would require a gold standard

now a gold standard will be imposed by events at some point

but that will result in a massive deflationary correction on an unprecedented scale

so PP is basically promising to send Canada into a depression overnight

which is why he is not actually going to do what he says he will do

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Contrarian said:

1. Is this introduction supposed to mean anything as in, you are trying to pass me the point that I am not qualified to talk about the NDP and "left" in Canada?

2. Because you read stuff in the 70's? Not sure what the Pizza story was about. 

3. Here it is: NDP is what I consider left wing, going towards the fringe in some cases, and bad for business and is an opinion will continue to hold no matter how many times you remind me that being born here gives you some sort of weight to talk about the "left". 

4. You make it sound like is some sort of complicated product to learn.

1. Not at all.  I'm teaching you, which is free.
2. Just babbling.  Ignore.
3. Or you could just address my point ?
4. I certainly don't think it's complicated but I read some pretty dumb things too.
 

[myata]

25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the Tories in the UK have done it, the Tories in the UK are beating Labour at its own game

I don't think the binary FPTP story can have a good long term conclusion. Everybody loses.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Contrarian said:

I will, this afternoon, on my phone now, downtown, and can only do Twitter type exchanges. 

Will respond reasonably.

Yes.  "Michael you're wrong" is an acceptable response ...

[Dougie93]

42 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I remember I met my first real "Russian" around the early/mid 90s.  So weird to me as they were the ultimate "other" as depicted in films (Ever seen "Firefox" ?  Cold war gem of a film) and such.

So... he wasn't very friendly.  He just handed me my Pizza Pizza and kind of scowled. 

the Russians are not the ones who brought the Iron Curtain down, that was the East Germans

there was no major movement in Russia to overthrow the Soviet Union

in the 1970's, when the oil price went through the roof, the Russians were actually living well by their standards

it was only when the Saudis starting pumping oil to bring the Soviets down, that things started to unravel

suddenly the Russians were standing in bread lines

what they were promised tho, was not revolution, but rather reform

except Communism can't be reformed, soon as you end the centrally planned dictatorship, the system collapses

so it all ended up being a great thing for the Germans, while the Russians suffered a catastrophe

[sharkman]

PP is a wef stooge just like Trudeau.  What we need is a new party, not infected with the globalist BS that wants us to own nothing and be happy.  Live in 15 minute cities and pay with a digital currency that allows government to track every cent you earn.  
 

What we need is a reform party.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Leader fatigue has indeed set in as it always does, but if the Conservatives want to win more than one election they’re going to have to pay attention to what Canadians want and it’s still not far from the dish Chrétien served up. Radical right-wing menus just won’t do well here. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Leader fatigue has indeed set in as it always does, but if the Conservatives want to win more than one election they’re going to have to pay attention to what Canadians want and it’s still not far from the dish Chrétien served up. Radical right-wing menus just won’t do well here. 

Well what are we defining as 'radical right wing menus'? Balanced budgets? Less red tape and beurocracy? more homes being built? whcih of the current policies on the table are 'radical right wing' ?

And chretien ended badly if you'll recall.

Right now Canadians want to be able to afford food and a roof over their head, to have decent medical services, and to have some stability so they can plan for the future. And they've got none of those things. They don't realize it but within a short time they'll  also probably have employment concerns.

They want to see that teh country's finances are under control too, and we're moving back towards balance.

And they're going to want to see that for a while.  I don't know if you're old enough to remember the 70's and 80's but this is a classic repeat. Trudeau back then racked up huge debt and drove inflation through the roof and by the time he was gone the public was ready for 8 years of tories. In fact - Mulroney won more than 50 percent of the vote, first time in forever.

He did what he had to in order to get things under control - but he didn't sell it well. If PP can do a better job that way he can not only win 2 terms but he'll have a reasonable shot at 3 - especially if he can get the media message under control.

[Michael Hardner]

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

1. Your answers aren't honest
 
2. What is the point in having a lengthy discussion if you don't intend to be honest about it.  

1. You think I'm a liar although you don't know me ?  Then why discuss with me ?
2. Self-confirming fallacy: you assume I'm lying then ask me a question with the assumption I'm lying.

Why would anyone want to continue a discussion with people they think is lying ?

The populists are really something to behold.  Everything is so personal with them... And the paranoia too.  They really don't trust their fellow Canadians: the idea that killing the CBC would make people quickly stop supporting the liberals is hard to understand IMO...
 

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You think I'm a liar although you don't know me ?  Then why discuss with me ?

Well that was rather my point wasn't it?  I mean, i don't mind talking to you - liars are often entertaining and such    but taking the discussion seriously? why?

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Self-confirming fallacy: you assume I'm lying then ask me a question with the assumption I'm lying.

Well that does limit the number of questions i'd bother asking

 

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why would anyone want to continue a discussion with people they think is lying ?

Now now - if we take that attitude politicians would never get an interview

Other than that tho, there's always the amusement value

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The populists are really something to behold.  Everything is so personal with them... And the paranoia too.  They really don't trust their fellow Canadians: the idea that killing the CBC would make people quickly stop supporting the liberals is hard to understand IMO...

The radical left is really something to behold. Nobody else's concerns matter, and the delusion is huge too. They really like to lie to their fellow Canadians.

For example - they make statements like  "the idea that killing the CBC would make people quickly stop supporting the liberals is hard to understand IMO"  when NOBODY suggested that was what would happen. 

But - it's important to them to lie about it because they can't make a truthful argument that supports their view.

Of course people will still support the liberals. But with the death of the cbc the culture will begin to change. People will turn to other news media that doesn't lie or bury liberal stories nearly as much. The discussion alters and suddenly things like the chinese interference doesn't get swept unnder the rug.  A LOT of left wing reporters and media types will be without jobs and suddenly 'get woke go broke' will be a concern for some of the remaining media

It changes things. It doesn't suddenly mean nobody ever votes liberal any more as you suggest.

but hey -  you've already admitted that it's not wise to approach any of your comments as if they're true, right   Guess you were just proving why.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, CdnFox said:

1.  I mean, i don't mind talking to you - liars are often entertaining and such     

2. Other than that tho, there's always the amusement value

3. NOBODY suggested that was what would happen. 

1. 2. Not really that amusing or entertaining to me, anyway.  It's a discussion board, so a real discussion is the foundation of why most of us are here.  You think I'm a troll - not much I can say to that.
3.  Mea cupla - you're right you didn't say that.

Glad you're smiling again... don't be a hater... 

[TreeBeard]

34 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Balanced budgets?

Federal Conservatives don’t balance budgets. 

[Army Guy]

On 3/1/2023 at 12:28 PM, TreeBeard said:

I’ve lost track of how many elections Trudeau has won and how many leaders the Cons have gone through…  

 

I know it's hard being a liberal with a memory of only 5 mins, but it's really not that big of a number...

[Army Guy]

On 3/1/2023 at 1:11 PM, TreeBeard said:

You think a 40% of the vote win by the Cons will cause a dramatic shift in attitudes toward conservatism in Canada, so much so that “the left” will suddenly become a minority and be shunned by these people and their new-found values?  

You certainly are optimistic.  

Winning 40% of the vote will put them into a majority, and then who really cares what the left think or does. Your automatically assuming every policy and bill they put in place is going to be terrible. The left will be in a minority position helpless to do what they do best, nothing.

But in reality your worry about which social programs are going to get cut, to pay for all this massive care free spending spree, it is time to pay the piper.. The free ride is over 

[Army Guy]

On 3/1/2023 at 1:36 PM, TreeBeard said:

  I’m saying that, in general, Canadians are a liberal values people, with some exceptions.   If they vote to get rid of Trudeau because they’re  sick of him, that doesn’t mean the country has swung hard right.  
 

What are liberal values? lying and cheating and being deceitful is made very clear and very acceptable. no integrity, no honor, no patriotism, very little in common in regards to morals and values of other Canadians. Not sure anyone wants liberal values...

And your right it means that they final stood up and said we are tired of all the lies, deceit on almost every file they have touched, very very little progress to show for 8 years in power.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. 2. Not really that amusing or entertaining to me, anyway

Well of course not. As a liar i don't imagine you'd find other liars amusing. Monkeys having a fit are probably not funny to other monkeys.

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Glad you're smiling again... don't be a hater... 

I didn't stop smiling   like i said, trolls are often amusing.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, CdnFox said:

1. As a liar i don't imagine you'd find other liars amusing.  

2. I didn't stop smiling  

1. Wait, did you just call YOURSELF a liar?!  Maybe this is amusing after all.

2. Ok.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Federal Conservatives don’t balance budgets. 

Except they do   And those who aren't die hard lefties know that. So when that becomes important to people that's who they turn to.

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Wait, did you just call YOURSELF a liar?! 

No I find you amusing. Liars would not find liars amusing is what i said.  Jeez dude - that wasn't very complex, how did you manage to screw that up     - see what I mean, liars are amusing! 

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I know it's hard being a liberal with a memory of only 5 mins, but it's really not that big of a number...

I am a liberal, but not a Liberal.  Do you know the difference between liberal and Liberal?  One is a socio-political slant, or opinion, and the other is a political party.  
 

When I say liberal, I don’t mean the Liberal Party.  You conflate this a lot.  I’ve voted for more Conservative candidates than I have for Liberal candidates (I think 1 or 2 to zero).  

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Your automatically assuming every policy and bill they put in place is going to be terrible. The left will be in a minority position helpless to do what they do best, nothing.

No, I was responding to the post that claimed Canadians are going to make a hard-right turn from being mostly liberals (note: small ‘L’) to conservatives. 

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

But in reality your worry about which social programs are going to get cut

Absolutely!  Despite the fact that I’m too wealthy to collect any, I do have empathy for those who need them. 

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

What are liberal values? lying and cheating and being deceitful is made very clear and very acceptable. no integrity, no honor, no patriotism, very little in common in regards to morals and values of other Canadians. Not sure anyone wants liberal values...

Small “L” liberal.  Once again you’re conflating the political party, which I’ve never voted for federally, with the political position. 
 

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Except they do   And those who aren't die hard lefties know that. So when that becomes important to people that's who they turn to.

Harper had 1 balanced budget, which he inherited from the previous Liberals.  Point to another balanced budget by federal Conservatives?

[OftenWrong]

21 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I am a liberal, but not a Liberal.  Do you know the difference between liberal and Liberal?  One is a socio-political slant, or opinion, and the other is a political party.  
 

When I say liberal, I don’t mean the Liberal Party.  You conflate this a lot.  I’ve voted for more Conservative candidates than I have for Liberal candidates (I think 1 or 2 to zero).  

No, I was responding to the post that claimed Canadians are going to make a hard-right turn from being mostly liberals (note: small ‘L’) to conservatives. 

Absolutely!  Despite the fact that I’m too wealthy to collect any, I do have empathy for those who need them. 

Small “L” liberal.  Once again you’re conflating the political party, which I’ve never voted for federally, with the political position. 
 

"Tomāto"

"Tomăto"