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CSIS: Liberal MP is alleged Chinese agent, Trudeau ignored warnings


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3 hours ago, Goddess said:

Frankly, the authoritarianism in this government has been pointed out to you many times in the last 3 years.  Too bad you didn't believe us until the Chinese were running our country.

Again I repeat, I was calling for no truck nor trade with China 25 years ago.

Please square that with what you just said or STFU.

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Sadly, we seem to be stuck with a little dictator and his radical Socialist supporter unless Singh wakes up and lets Canadians have an election.  What is ridiculous is to have a situation where the country is under the influence of a Communist country and has had an effect on our elections, but nothing can be done about it.

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1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Things getting too hot for little Justin these days?

Justin Trudeau about to prorogue Parliament ?

 

Remember when harper was the biggest dictator in the world and a horrible person who had to be thrown out when he prorogued parliament? Pepperidge farms remembers.

Why do i get the feeling the liberals and their supporters will be singing a different tune this time around?

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38 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

For human rights abuse reasons or national security reasons?

Human rights for sure and just on general principles. I'm not very concerned about our national security given how broad the interpretation of what that means can be.

But that said I'm convinced most of a nation's security rests on the ability of it's citizens to know what their government's are doing. Given that, I'd say we're definitely in harm's way.

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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-china-funding-interference-1.6771842

As Poilievre presses on election interference, Trudeau calls suggestion he isn't loyal to Canada 'despicable'

 

"A large clandestine transfer of funds earmarked for the federal election from the PRC Consulate in Toronto was transferred to an elected provincial government official via a staff member of a 2019 federal candidate," the report says, according to Global.

 

This is a pretty textbook deflection from the cbc.

You see - trudeau isn't the bad guy! Oh no - Look, Pierre is PRESSING him! Pierre is the one doing the bad thing and attacking him!  And trudeau points out that it's DESPICABLE to question him, and suggests that is what pierre is doing by placing the two things in the same headline.

The message is "pierre attacks justin which is despicable."

 

Edited by CdnFox
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2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Human rights for sure and just on general principles. I'm not very concerned about our national security given how broad the interpretation of what that means can be.

But that said I'm convinced most of a nation's security rests on the ability of it's citizens to know what their government's are doing. Given that, I'd say we're definitely in harm's way.

Well i'm also convinced some foreign nations mean us harm to gain advantage and power over us for their own benefit, and there's countless examples of the Chinese government and businesses doing that for decades.  If Canadian elected officials are complicit in allowing it to happen, especially because it benefits their own selfish interests and power over the interests of the country and its citizens, then they are also essentially our enemies and a national security threat.  We either allow this to continue or we don't.

If you're not concerned about this then you really don't care about your country, yourself, or your fellow citizens, its that simple.  Frankly you sound like a Liberal in your apathy of all this, but for very different reasons.  You sound like a very nice person, but at some point you need to stand up for yourself, so please take this as constructive criticism.  If your bleeding heart is too weak and guilt-ridden to stand up for yourself, your country, and your fellow Canadians against a foreign threat then please get out of the way and let everyone else do what needs to be done.  There's no room for the eyeballs and hardner's in times of war when the tough decisions need to made.  People like Churchill and FDR and Reagan didn't roll over for our dictator enemies and take it up the rump.  You don't appease a bully, if you give an inch they'll take it.  The truth is we need the eyeballs and every last Canadian in this fight, so let's go man!

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1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Well i'm also convinced some foreign nations mean us harm to gain advantage and power over us for their own benefit, and there's countless examples of the Chinese government and businesses doing that for decades.

Yes but we invited all of them in with full knowledge that we had a governing system that was both prone and open to corruption.  I have little sympathy for Canadians who feel so jilted at such a late stage.  Canada has been sitting in the corner drunk, with sloppy makeup on, legs spread wide open with no regard to safe...relations.

Quote

If Canadian elected officials are complicit in allowing it to happen, especially because it benefits their own selfish interests and power over the interests of the country and its citizens, then they are also essentially our enemies and a national security threat.  We either allow this to continue or we don't.

We have so far and since I don't see PP calling for the complete overhaul of our institutions of transparency and accountability I fail to see why anything will change.

Quote

If you're not concerned about this then you really don't care about your country, yourself, or your fellow citizens, its that simple.  Frankly you sound like a Liberal in your apathy of all this, but for very different reasons.  You sound like a very nice person, but at some point you need to stand up for yourself, so please take this as constructive criticism.  If your bleeding heart is too weak and guilt-ridden to stand up for yourself, your country, and your fellow Canadians against a foreign threat then please get out of the way and let everyone else do what needs to be done.  There's no room for the eyeballs and hardner's in times of war when the tough decisions need to made.

You're as bad as Goddess FFS.

I sound like a Liberal because I'd effectively like to wire the upper echelons of our government with cameras and microphones. You realize how retarded it sounds having your crap thrown in my face despite you knowing what I really support doing?

Ever notice whenever you people blab away about some conspiracy another involving our government I always ask for some real evidence of whatever the hell it is you're talking about?  I guess not because you also don't notice how often I remind you that you have no means of acquiring the evidence you need - that means of acquiring evidence should be legislated access for you to just about any government nook and cranny you choose to poke around in, notwithstanding something that actually impacts our national security or involves your fellow citizen's private business.

I'd be shot in several of the dictatorships we do business for making my views so public.

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People like Churchill and FDR and Reagan didn't roll over for our dictator enemies and take it up the rump.  You don't appease a bully, if you give an inch they'll take it.  The truth is we need the eyeballs and every last Canadian in this fight, so let's go man!

Yeah and then someone like GWB comes along and gazes deep into Putin's eyes and sees a man America can do business with.

I'll keep fighting for transparency starting with an end to in-camera lobbying.  I bring it up at candidates meetings, I've written letters to editor's and had a couple on the topic make to letter of the day and even heard the idea tossed out shortly after on a At Issue segment one night years and years ago.  I've also seen more than a few posters around here who usually write me off as a commie/fascist/authoritarian grudgingly give the idea the nod.  Most forget shortly afterwards though and fall back to their commie/fascist/authoritarian default setting.

Thanks by the way for proving this by essentially giving me a thumbs up with one hand this morning then flinging crap at me with the other this afternoon.

You do have me in the fight BTW but you'd never know it.

Edited by eyeball
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23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I sound like a Liberal because I'd effectively like to wire the upper echelons of our government with cameras and microphones.

What good are cameras and microphones if you're just gonna go "Meh...." every time the government gets caught in bed with the Chinese?

 

25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You do have me in the fight BTW but you'd never know it.

Yes.  We'd never know you're on the citizen side at all.

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3 hours ago, Goddess said:

What good are cameras and microphones if you're just gonna go "Meh...." every time the government gets caught in bed with the Chinese?

That's not what I said meh about. You're as bad as CdnFox arguing against things people didn't say.  Why do you insist on being so retarded about forcing some transparency on your government?

Oh right, it's only 38 million of us against 380 of them. You're right we don't stand a chance - it's hopeless. Might as well say baaaaa (not meh) and learn to like it.

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6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yes but we invited all of them in with full knowledge that we had a governing system that was both prone and open to corruption.  I have little sympathy for Canadians who feel so jilted at such a late stage.  Canada has been sitting in the corner drunk, with sloppy makeup on, legs spread wide open with no regard to safe...relations.

Well many do seem to care.  Harper was booted out when it was clear he was turning into a dictator proroguing Parliament whenever something didn't go his way  Trudeau's Liberals actually lost the popular vote the last 2 elections and has been sitting in minority limbo.

The system is flawed and our politicians are almost all corrupt who serve themselves over the country.

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

We have so far and since I don't see PP calling for the complete overhaul of our institutions of transparency and accountability I fail to see why anything will change.

PP is a slimy rat POS and many of the CPC are wingnut goofballs, but at least his party doesn't suck China's wiener to the extent the Liberals do, which is why China supported the Liberals over the CPC.

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're as bad as Goddess FFS.

I sound like a Liberal because I'd effectively like to wire the upper echelons of our government with cameras and microphones. You realize how retarded it sounds having your crap thrown in my face despite you knowing what I really support doing?

Ever notice whenever you people blab away about some conspiracy another involving our government I always ask for some real evidence of whatever the hell it is you're talking about?  I guess not because you also don't notice how often I remind you that you have no means of acquiring the evidence you need - that means of acquiring evidence should be legislated access for you to just about any government nook and cranny you choose to poke around in, notwithstanding something that actually impacts our national security or involves your fellow citizen's private business.

You know very well that I share all your positions on government transparency and accountability.  What I don't understand is your apathy on these China national security issues, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.  Is it just so you can stand on a hill and laugh and say "i told you so"?  That's not going to help anything.

Our crooked politicians are in bed with many of the monied interests in this country and have been selling us out for decades, and now its coming home to roost like never before.  Enough is enough.  Look what our politicians and PM did for SNC-Lavalin's sake, so we can just imagine what they do for any other large corporation that can covertly fund a campaign by making a large donation to the Pierre Trudeau Foundation or any infinite ways to conceal these kinds of donations-for-favours.

This country needs a leader with some integrity and conviction to clean up Ottawa & the system.  But we have Mr. Ethics Violation as PM because some people still have some weird Pierre Trudeau boner.  Our Parliament is filled with traitors.  Liberals, the Bloc, panda-hugging Conservatives...what a joke.

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4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What I don't understand is your apathy on these China national security issues, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.  Is it just so you can stand on a hill and laugh and say "i told you so"?  That's not going to help anything.

Maybe.  I guess I'm just getting older and don't expect to see anything change in what's left of my lifetime.

For what it's worth I still won't be voting for the Liberals, which I'm sure won't mean squat around here but it is what it is. 

 

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8 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Well many do seem to care.  Harper was booted out when it was clear he was turning into a dictator proroguing Parliament whenever something didn't go his way

Actually, worth noting - he did that once, and he won his first majority gov't after that. It's certainly not why he lost the next election.

Also - virtually all prime ministers prorogue parliament regularly. The thing that pisses me off is that when harper did it the media made it sound like it was the biggest deal in the world, and if justin does it i bet we hear about how common it is.

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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-prime-minister-could-clear-up-the-most-important-questions-about/

The Prime Minister could clear up the most important questions about China’s interference in our elections – simply by answering them

The elaborate, multilayered process Justin Trudeau has put in place is meant to suggest the whole thing is some sort of bottomless well, shrouded in mystery – something that will take, oh, at least until after the next election to piece together.

But the Prime Minister could clear up the most important questions raised by this affair – what did he know, what did his aides know, and what did Liberal Party officials know about China’s efforts to throw the last two elections their way; when did they know it; and what did they do about it – in a single day. All he has to do is start answering them.

Edited by CdnFox
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15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Maybe.  I guess I'm just getting older and don't expect to see anything change in what's left of my lifetime.

For what it's worth I still won't be voting for the Liberals, which I'm sure won't mean squat around here but it is what it is. 

It could mean everything to a lot of people.  But nobody owes anything to anyone around here, you do you. You have a good heart, which is more than I can say for any of the folks in Parliament who have any sort of power.

If you have kids or grandkids, do it for them.

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6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Actually, worth noting - he did that once, and he won his first majority gov't after that. It's certainly not why he lost the next election.

Also - virtually all prime ministers prorogue parliament regularly. The thing that pisses me off is that when harper did it the media made it sound like it was the biggest deal in the world, and if justin does it i bet we hear about how common it is.

Yup.

But Harper increasingly did a lot of bad things. He needed to be removed.

Being PM turns people into dictators apparently.  Far too much power in the hands of one person.  The Americans had the right idea with separation of powers.

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48 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It could mean everything to a lot of people.  But nobody owes anything to anyone around here, you do you. You have a good heart, which is more than I can say for any of the folks in Parliament who have any sort of power.

If you have kids or grandkids, do it for them.

I have 4 grandkids, three of which are Chinese. Their other grandparents fled China 50 years ago.

Not voting for a Liberal won't mean squat to conservatives unless I vote for one of theirs and I have no expectation it would change anything if I did.

The only thing that would make me vote Conservative is if they acknowledge that the biggest issue facing Canada, bar none, is public mistrust in our government which stems from the fact that our government simply doesn't trust us.

The government overcoming their mistrust of us will be the biggest challenge our government faces and I don't think they're up to that challenge at all.

Edited by eyeball
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11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I have 4 grandkids, three of which are Chinese. Their other grandparents fled China 50 years ago.

Not voting for a Liberal won't mean squat to conservatives unless I vote for one of theirs and I have no expectation it would change anything if I did.

The only thing that would make me vote Conservative is if they acknowledge that the biggest issue facing Canada, bar none, is public mistrust in our government which stems from the fact that our government simply doesn't trust us.

In all sincerity,

Voting is arguably the LEAST important step in the democratic process. And it's not where you want to be sending messages as a rule. Or at least not important ones.

Voting is more like pressing the 'check out' button after you've filled your cart.

If you want to make change, you can. It means meeting with and talking to your local rep, it means attending policy conventions. You can also work with like minded people to create a united front to lobby the party for whatever you feel is important. And this is true regardless of party. You pick the one that's closest to you and then tune it as best as possible.

You should have the party you want with the priorities you want and that's how you get it. And i would support you doing that even if it's a party i disagree with.

If you wait till voting time to make your voice heard you'll never get anything other than what other people picked for you. Like the saying goes - the world is run by those who show up, so show up.

 

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1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

If you want to make change, you can. It means meeting with and talking to your local rep, it means attending policy conventions. 

Been there done that, I'm Involved. It isn't changed a thing. I've been on our area planning commission for nearly 40 year and I've seen a few people move on to become MLA's.

I recall when it was decided to hold our meetings via Zoom when COVID hit and within hours tongues were wagging and emails about dictatorship were flying.

The mistrust has only gotten worse.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I have 4 grandkids, three of which are Chinese. Their other grandparents fled China 50 years ago.

That's great, they deserve to live in a country with a government that isn't like or friendly to the terrible regime their grandparents fled, and have a right to not have Chinese government police stations throughout Canada able to intimidate them into compliance with the CCP agenda because they threaten relatives back home etc.

IMO As long as Canadians are loyal to this country and follow the law it doesn't matter where they come from or what they look like.  Justin Trudeau is white and was born here and he doesn't seem like a very good Canadian, he uses the country and its citizens to further his own self-interests (which seems to largely revolve around an addiction to getting attention to pad his own narcissistic ego).  A real hero and patriot that guy.  Getting into politics for ego and power instead of bettering your country is an interesting choice and seems pretty common.

54 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Not voting for a Liberal won't mean squat to conservatives unless I vote for one of theirs and I have no expectation it would change anything if I did.

The only thing that would make me vote Conservative is if they acknowledge that the biggest issue facing Canada, bar none, is public mistrust in our government which stems from the fact that our government simply doesn't trust us.

The government overcoming their mistrust of us will be the biggest challenge our government faces and I don't think they're up to that challenge at all.

You don't have to vote conservative and don't owe their supporters anything.

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