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Fat Trudeau becomes unglued when a Canadian doesn't support his corrupt war in Ukraine


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21 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

When Zelenskyy is assassinated, and this becomes a terrorist state which was gifted with American weapons? 

Or do we quit while we are ahead?


Zelensky is no longer vital to Ukraine’s resistance. In death he would become a secular saint inspiring the country. Putin’s demise, however, might stop the war. There would be no rational reason to pursue it after him because Russia can’t win. At some point it will have to go home. For ordinary Russians, a temporary victory of their side that toppled the government in Kiev could be even worse for them, starting a guerilla war across their country with bombings etc. in major cities. 

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12 hours ago, West said:

Fat Trudeau begins yelling at a protester who doesn't support a blank cheque to the third most corrupt country on the planet

Third most corrupt country? That doesn’t sound right. Ukraine is corrupt but not that corrupt. Here’s one assessment that puts it considerably lower (or higher depending how one looks at it) than that:

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021/index/ukr

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Germany, Japan,  denmark, Poland and a few others would like to have a word with you :) Although Germany only raised it's hand half way and is looking a little sheepish.

Pretending russia is an innocent little lamb that would never attack anyone is silly. They have, they would, they will in the future if they get a chance.

If only there were some modern or recent example i could give you of russia invading someone's country without military provocation...   gosh it seems like there should be at least one somewhere....  what was this thread about again?

Do you think the war since 2014 was a fantasy?

I have no love for Putin. I have no love for Zelinsky either. 

Frankly I could care less about the Russians and Ukrainians at each other's throats. And it is certainly not worth risking a world war over.

There have been exactly zero good outcomes from this war. It's all been negative. Hell even the claim that "we're defending democracy" is BS.

Edited by Nationalist
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6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Why should we be sending anything to Ukraine?

An increasingly compelling reason is the shocking amount of support Putin gets from right-wing conservatives who should know better.

The only issue I really have is that it would be more ethical to fight you people directly here at home instead of by proxy elsewhere. 

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4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Canada used to be considered peace-keepers. A peaceful nation. One of the few seemingly neutral third parties that could be brought in for a negotiation. Not any more. Now it's all Rah Rah Rah!

Well, I suggested we send our troops into Ukraine on a humanitarian mission and all you did was go Wah Wah Wah!

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20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

An increasingly compelling reason is the shocking amount of support Putin gets from right-wing conservatives who should know better.

The only issue I really have is that it would be more ethical to fight you people directly here at home instead of by proxy elsewhere. 

We people? Sounds like you're spoiling for a fight.

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35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

An increasingly compelling reason is the shocking amount of support Putin gets from right-wing conservatives who should know better.

The only issue I really have is that it would be more ethical to fight you people directly here at home instead of by proxy elsewhere. 

Conservatives don't support Putin. We only support Canada. And sending billions of our tax dollars to one of the most corrupt nations on the planet IS NOT in our best interest

 

Edited by West
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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Putin's hold on power, could not survive him losing face in this after the level of loss and humiliation that he has suffered. Of course, this is my opinion, but am basing it on the heavy handed pressure he is getting to use more force.

I agree, but that will just embolden others to seize power and oust him. Then the failure will all be his fault.

 

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Russia has gone into high gear in producing missiles. They had seen tons of success fighting from a distance. Some of their largest blunders were due to this, and not knowing the terrain.

This is beginning to step outside of my area of expertise, so i'll caveate what i say with that but as i understand things even their fastest missile production is no where near what they need. Apperently many of the funds to upkeep production were 'diverted' into people's pockets, and a serious lack of chips and other key components limits what they can build. Even simple elements like artillery shells aren't getting made nearly fast enough for their needs, which means they have less than they'd like when they attack and have to wait longer between attacks for stockpiles to catch up for even limited use.

I have even heard it said they're considering a massive air strike for their next offensive to make up for the lack of artillery even though it could mean significant air asset losses. 

And while they're running short on missiles, ukraine's air defense is beefing up. which means it takes a lot more missiles to hit anything because more will get shot down.

And lets get real, they havnen't seen a tonne of success at all, long range or short. At best they've been able to hit power grids and hospitals but that doesnt' really blunt the war effort and if anything it's making the ukranians that much more resolved.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Russia can force the hand of the west, by inflicting insanely high death tolls in brutal fashion.

They're not fighting the west.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

This is Putin we are talking about, so common sense will be this is what they will be planning.

THey can plan all they like but shy  of using nukes they won't be racking up any western deaths.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

At what point do we learn from our past? 

Sorry - are you asking me or chaimberline?  ;)  :):)

We quit when and if ukraine loses. Otherwise we're probably going to keep going. Russia is seriously weakening itself both physically and reputation wise with this war and that's in our best interest.

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12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I agree, but that will just embolden others to seize power and oust him. Then the failure will all be his fault.

 

This is beginning to step outside of my area of expertise, so i'll caveate what i say with that but as i understand things even their fastest missile production is no where near what they need. Apperently many of the funds to upkeep production were 'diverted' into people's pockets, and a serious lack of chips and other key components limits what they can build. Even simple elements like artillery shells aren't getting made nearly fast enough for their needs, which means they have less than they'd like when they attack and have to wait longer between attacks for stockpiles to catch up for even limited use.

I have even heard it said they're considering a massive air strike for their next offensive to make up for the lack of artillery even though it could mean significant air asset losses. 

And while they're running short on missiles, ukraine's air defense is beefing up. which means it takes a lot more missiles to hit anything because more will get shot down.

And lets get real, they havnen't seen a tonne of success at all, long range or short. At best they've been able to hit power grids and hospitals but that doesnt' really blunt the war effort and if anything it's making the ukranians that much more resolved.

They're not fighting the west.

THey can plan all they like but shy  of using nukes they won't be racking up any western deaths.

Sorry - are you asking me or chaimberline?  ;)  :):)

We quit when and if ukraine loses. Otherwise we're probably going to keep going. Russia is seriously weakening itself both physically and reputation wise with this war and that's in our best interest.

Is Russia really weakened? 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tilakdoshi/2022/07/21/brics-in-the-new-world-energy-order-hedging-in-oil-geopolitics/?sh=48d2f71f24bf

China just committed to closer alliance with Russia...and interestingly enough...are offering to broker a peace deal.

America needs to shed this cold war hatred of Russia. It's produced egg all over their faces several times in the last decade.

It appears to me that the American government is more concerned with optics and local politics, instead of realizing high level geopolitics. 

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29 minutes ago, West said:

Conservatives don't support Putin. We only support Canada. And sending billions of our tax dollars to one of the most corrupt nations on the planet IS NOT in our best interest

I have no doubt there are conservatives who do know better which suggests you people are something new and different - a never before seen type of conservative or not even conservatives at all - something alien to our ideo-illogical landscape.  

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19 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Absolutely it is. They have lost a huge amount of military equipment including ships that they simply cannot replace anytime soon. They have lost massive amounts of prestige - how do you sell yourself as being a superpower capable of standing up to the US when you can't beat ukraine? Sanctions have hurt their economy and every customer they have will be looking at how to buy less from them over time.

This has seriously hurt them. It won't kill them but it will put a serious dent  in them for quite some time.

19 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

China just committed to closer alliance with Russia...and interestingly enough...are offering to broker a peace deal.

Not surprising - russia has been weakened and china is moving to make them their biatch.  Also they want to reduce dependency on US trade just in case the US starts getting serious about the trade deficit.

19 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

America needs to shed this cold war hatred of Russia. It's produced egg all over their faces several times in the last decade.

Like when.

19 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

It appears to me that the American government is more concerned with optics and local politics, instead of realizing high level geopolitics. 

Russia is in fact a player on the high level geopolitical scale and there's really no denying that. If countries don't believe russia is strong enough to be a powerful ally, that strengthens the us' s position and weakens russias (and chinas).

Also situations like this send clear messages to china - be careful. If you attack another country and they don't fall within the first few days then the allies may help them and look what happened to putin.

Not to mention it's a great way to test weapons and tactics that have never been battle tested before. The next generation us HIMARS is going to be spectacular i'm sure - this one really showed how mixing drones and himars can be brutally effective, the next ones will likely build on that.

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6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Canada used to be considered peace-keepers. A peaceful nation. One of the few seemingly neutral third parties that could be brought in for a negotiation. Not any more. Now it's all Rah Rah Rah!

This man is not a Canadian:

image.thumb.png.d8a20aa2a0092d508d950e948c23c82f.png

 

 

I heard that Nelson Mandela brought peace and unity to S. Africa by screaming at citizens from a podium.

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56 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I have no doubt there are conservatives who do know better which suggests you people are something new and different - a never before seen type of conservative or not even conservatives at all - something alien to our ideo-illogical landscape.  

We are the TRUE conservatives who actually ASK QUESTIONS about crazy SPENDING. 

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47 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Absolutely it is. They have lost a huge amount of military equipment including ships that they simply cannot replace anytime soon. They have lost massive amounts of prestige - how do you sell yourself as being a superpower capable of standing up to the US when you can't beat ukraine? Sanctions have hurt their economy and every customer they have will be looking at how to buy less from them over time.

This has seriously hurt them. It won't kill them but it will put a serious dent  in them for quite some time.

Not surprising - russia has been weakened and china is moving to make them their biatch.  Also they want to reduce dependency on US trade just in case the US starts getting serious about the trade deficit.

Like when.

Russia is in fact a player on the high level geopolitical scale and there's really no denying that. If countries don't believe russia is strong enough to be a powerful ally, that strengthens the us' s position and weakens russias (and chinas).

Also situations like this send clear messages to china - be careful. If you attack another country and they don't fall within the first few days then the allies may help them and look what happened to putin.

Not to mention it's a great way to test weapons and tactics that have never been battle tested before. The next generation us HIMARS is going to be spectacular i'm sure - this one really showed how mixing drones and himars can be brutally effective, the next ones will likely build on that.

Meh...I'm just not a fan of avoidable wars. It's nasty. There are better ways to recover from a global pandemic and the financial scars.

I often wonder...what ever happened to the Liberal battle cry...

"People could die!"?

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52 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Meh...I'm just not a fan of avoidable wars. It's nasty.

All wars are avoidable. Were there some wars you were a fan of?

52 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

 

There are better ways to recover from a global pandemic and the financial scars.44

Yeah - not really why this is happening.

52 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I often wonder...what ever happened to the Liberal battle cry...

"People could die!"?

Well they didn't mean it then either :)  They go with whatever is popular.

At the end of the day putin decided this was something he wanted to do and now we're in it, and it's to our advantage that russia be weakened by it . So that's what's happening. Although i'll admit i'm a little surprised that justin is buying air defense systems to send to them from the us seeing as he wouldn't buy those for our own troops.

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1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

All wars are avoidable. Were there some wars you were a fan of?

Yeah - not really why this is happening.

Well they didn't mean it then either :)  They go with whatever is popular.

At the end of the day putin decided this was something he wanted to do and now we're in it, and it's to our advantage that russia be weakened by it . So that's what's happening. Although i'll admit i'm a little surprised that justin is buying air defense systems to send to them from the us seeing as he wouldn't buy those for our own troops.

Pixie-Dust is a certifiable twit.

This is a rather different game. For the first time, 2 nations with the capability to end humanity on this planet, are squaring off.

For a land The West has had little to no use for.

Gee...sounds reasonable to me.

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

 

This is a rather different game. For the first time, 2 nations with the capability to end humanity on this planet, are squaring off.

First time?  I don't think so, there's been several similar confrontations between a nuclear power and another by proxy like this.

Korea. Afghanistan - BOTH ways. Arguably vietnam. We've seen this before.

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

For a land The West has had little to no use for.

Gee...sounds reasonable to me.

Well first off that land is important to the west. It's a significant source of the worlds food and a major border for a number of our allies. Having it under friendly control is in fact important.

But it's more about weakening a serious adversary. Russia is a threat, period. They've shown it many times. And not just a threat directly but they frequently arm nations hostile to us and our allies.

So it is absolutely and massively in our interests to see them severely weakened like this and to have their prestige knocked down. It weakens their influence in the world and also the loss of so much military equipment and men which cannot easily be replaced (especially the equipment) makes it very hard for them to think about any invasions or military actions anywhere else for quite some time.

Having a hostile nation fall on hard times like that makes our lives safer. And it'll be a while before they think about any more 'adventures' like that.

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