Roxham Road

[I am Groot]

Our immigration system is an unholy bureaucratic mess, so it should surprise no one that our refugee system is even worse. It's overloaded with work and understaffed. It's doing what it was never intended to do, with numbers it was never intended to cope with. These two things are linked. Immigration and refugees. Because most of those coming in as refugees are simply immigrants who couldn't be bothered to go through the time-consuming exercise of applying. And why would they when this is so much faster and has a higher acceptance rate to boot?

We used to accept 35% of applicants. Now it's 70%. Once upon a time, we went by the UN convention on refugees which specifically excludes those fleeing war and poverty. Now we accept anyone with a sad story about how bad things are at home. The numbers at Roxham road keep climbing every year because the word is out that this is a virtually guaranteed path to life in Canada. Even those who are eventually rejected after years of hearings simply stay on. We don't have the means to find them let alone remove them. And it's fairly easy to live as an illegal immigrant in our 'sanctuary' cities like Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal.

Now things are so bad we're busing migrants from Quebec to Ontario. The Liberals have clearly made the determination that they can lose most of the complaints from Quebec over this while Ontario organizations and media, bound so tightly in political correctness, won't dare complain. They're probably right. I haven't heard a peep of complaint from Doug Ford even though Toronto's shelter system and public housing is already full of migrants. 

Poilievre seems to feel he can complain about Roxham Road as long as he doesn't give any solutions. That's because the solutions, while perfectly acceptable in Quebec, would be anathema to Canada's English language media. Andrew Coyne's head would probably explode, just to start. And the STar would put out eighteen-pound bold screaming headlines about how the Conservatives hate immigrants and are white supremacist xenophobes.

The solution, of course, is to detain them at the border until their hearings. We can't do that because our crappy system requires five or more years to slowly, and torturously process the claims through various levels of appeals. So we need to take the refugee determination system out of the court system by using the Notwithstanding clause. Give them a quick hearing, then a quick appeal, abide by the UN convention, and then boot them out. Do that for a short period of time and word would quickly get back to countries of origin and most of the fakes would stop trying.

Good luck finding a Canadian politician with the balls to do it, though.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/tasha-kheiriddin-trudeau-cant-be-trusted-to-take-roxham-road-seriously

[myata]

Oh yes another crisis what are we at, by now? With no meaningful change possible now even in theory, how far is it for the happy bus to a hard stop?

[ExFlyer]

48 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Our immigration system is an unholy bureaucratic mess, .....

..... The numbers at Roxham road keep climbing every year because the word is out that this is a virtually guaranteed path to life in Canada. ......

easy to live as an illegal immigrant in our 'sanctuary' cities like Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal.

.......

Poilievre seems to feel he can complain about Roxham Road as long as he doesn't give any solutions. .......

The solution, of course, is to detain them at the border until their hearings. .....

.....

Roxham Road has been there for a very long time,through many governments and it is still there.

They have been detained at the border. They set up encampments for the detainees.

Sanctuary cities is the major problem. Everyone knows about them and use them.

[myata]

Who wants to start a thread here like this (approximately): this critical area of public policy is in a great shape, all major problems solved and leading the world in effectiveness and efficiency?

[Moonlight Graham]

If Canada can't control who comes across its borders then it has no sovereignty.  If international agreements prevent you from enacting policies you want in order to protect your border then back out of the agreements.

If you're a legit refugee then present yourself at an official border port of entry and make a refugee claim like everyone else.  You'll be given a health card and a work visa.  If you're not a legit refugee claimant you shouldn't be admitted into the country.  If you're coming from a safe 3rd country you should not be admitted into Canada until your claim is processed and approved, which it won't be because the refugee laws say you're not allowed to "refugee shop" and keep bouncing from western country to western country every time your claims are rejected looking to get lucky and for someone to slip up and accept you because of your bogus claim.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Moonlight Graham

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, myata said:

Oh yes another crisis what are we at, by now? With no meaningful change possible now even in theory, how far is it for the happy bus to a hard stop?

I already stated what the solution is. Saying it's not possible is simply to admit that political cowardice prevents governments from doing what should be done.

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Roxham Road has been there for a very long time,through many governments and it is still there.

They have been detained at the border. They set up encampments for the detainees.

Sanctuary cities is the major problem. Everyone knows about them and use them.

Uh, no it has not. It didn't start until 2015, and in 2016 there were about 300 such crossings. Then big mouth Trudeau decided to virtue signal to the world and the few hundred became tens of thousands. Word got out, and it rose to 60,000 crossings last year. And it likely will continue to grow as it's becoming more widely known as an easy path into Canada.

Sanctuary cities are a problem, but the real problem is our refugee laws, how long it takes to get through the process, and how easy it is to get a claim accepted without any evidence. Not to mention that we don't have any real enforcement mechanism to kick people out when they overstay.

Basically, once you're here you're here permanently unless you're repeatedly caught breaking the law in a major way or rape a schoolbus full of babies or something.

Edited February 17, 2023 by I am Groot

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Uh, no it has not. It didn't start until 2015, and in 2016 there were about 300 such crossings. Then big mouth Trudeau decided to virtue signal to the world and the few hundred became tens of thousands. Word got out, and it rose to 60,000 crossings last year. And it likely will continue to grow as it's becoming more widely known as an easy path into Canada.

Sanctuary cities are a problem, but the real problem is our refugee laws, how long it takes to get through the process, and how easy it is to get a claim accepted without any evidence. Not to mention that we don't have any real enforcement mechanism to kick people out when they overstay.

Basically, once you're here you're here permanently unless you're repeatedly caught breaking the law in a major way or rape a schoolbus full of babies or something.

Actually, Roxham Road has a very long history of "illegal" or uncontrolled border crossing.

It was only as a result of the US initiative to remove "illegal immigrants" that asylum seekers at Roxham Road came to the forefront and public attention. Prior to the threatening action by the then US government, it is really not known how many people used the Roxham road crossing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxham_Road

How to use Roxham Road:

http://www.bridgesnotborders.ca/crossing-at-roxham-road.html

Edited February 18, 2023 by ExFlyer

[I am Groot]

41 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Actually, Roxham Road has a very long history of "illegal" or uncontrolled border crossing.

It was only as a result of the US initiative to remove "illegal immigrants" that asylum seekers at Roxham Road came to the forefront and public attention. Prior to the threatening action by the then US government, it is really not known how many people used the Roxham road crossing.

No doubt. But in the dozens per year, not 60,000.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

No doubt. But in the dozens per year, not 60,000.

Point was, Roxham Road has been there for well over a hundred years as an uncontrolled border crossing. Anyone and everyone could cross there, and did. There is no way to quantify or conclusively say how many people have used that entry into Canada over those many many decades.

Yes. there was certainly  huge influx in the past few years, due to American policy and illegals there became refugees here. As we all know, Canada always accepts refugees.

Edited February 18, 2023 by ExFlyer

[I am Groot]

On 2/18/2023 at 11:30 AM, ExFlyer said:

Point was, Roxham Road has been there for well over a hundred years as an uncontrolled border crossing. Anyone and everyone could cross there, and did. There is no way to quantify or conclusively say how many people have used that entry into Canada over those many many decades.

Yes. there was certainly  huge influx in the past few years, due to American policy and illegals there became refugees here. As we all know, Canada always accepts refugees.

The numbers exploded after Trudeau's dumb tweet. And we have never been more accepting of anyone with the least excuse. It's never been easier to become a Canadian. Just step across the border and you're pretty much guaranteed to stay here for life.

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

The numbers exploded after Trudeau's dumb tweet. And we have never been more accepting of anyone with the least excuse. It's never been easier to become a Canadian. Just step across the border and you're pretty much guaranteed to stay here for life.

Again "Point was, Roxham Road has been there for well over a hundred years as an uncontrolled border crossing. Anyone and everyone could cross there, and did. There is no way to quantify or conclusively say how many people have used that entry into Canada over those many many decades. ".

"As we all know, Canada always accepts refugees. "

Roxham Road is "complete with an RCMP detachment, immigration officials and temporary offices that have become permanent — is now taking in hundreds of people per day at times from the United States. They aren’t fleeing persecution stateside; in fact, they are often people who have been given a bus ticket north to Canada by the U.S. government."

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-with-roxham-road-trudeau-is-importing-an-american-political-problem

Quebec now wants it closed so, maybe because Quebec wants it, Roxham Road may be closed.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/quebec-drive-to-close-roxham-road

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by ExFlyer

[eyeball]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:03 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

If Canada can't control who comes across its borders then it has no sovereignty.

Sounds like Roxham Road would make a dandy control point.

**** whatever Legault or Quebec think, if they don't like they're free to leave.

Quote

“Since Saturday, asylum seekers who have been arriving in Quebec are being redirected towards other provinces, with a few exceptions,”

Let me guess, Quebec is high-grading migrants and filtering out French speaking nurses and doctors.

[CdnFox]

The Challenge is not that Roxham road exists.  There will always be illegal border crossings and if you shut one down another will appear. 

The problem is it's being actively encouraged by OUR gov't. and exploited by the US. There are agencies in the us who specifically provide bus services to Roxham road for "refugees" to get them out of the us both as policy and as informal practice

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/us-border-agents-lifts-to-roxham-road-1.6743768

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/migrants-roxham-road-new-york-city-bus-1.6738824

Meanwhile Justin either ignores or actively encourages it (it varies). 

If we clamped down on it then this kind of thing would drop back to manageable levels.

 

[ExFlyer]

53 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

The U.S. and Canada reached an agreement, set to be announced, allowing both countries to turn away asylum seekers at their borders.

Source: The New York Times.

Not quite a done deal but it seems very close.

After years of stalled talks, Canada and U.S. reach border deal on irregular migrants: sources

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/deal-roxham-road-migrants-biden-trudeau-1.6788358

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Not quite a done deal but it seems very close.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/deal-roxham-road-migrants-biden-trudeau-1.6788358

Seems moot. From the article;

Quote

But United States Ambassador David Cohen said that would do little to address irregular migration.

and...

Saintil said migrants are often fleeing political persecution and gang and domestic violence.

"They will do what they need to do to survive. For them and their family," Saintil said. 

"I find it very troubling that this has been politicized, instead of trying to focus on helping these people in whatever way we can."

Wait until climate change becomes the main driver for migrating refugees.  Then we'll really see just how troubling the politicization of an issue can be.  Denial will be a river.

[Aristides]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Seems moot. From the article;

Wait until climate change becomes the main driver for migrating refugees.  Then we'll really see just how troubling the politicization of an issue can be.  Denial will be a river.

It already is the underlying factor in some parts of the world.

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It already is the underlying factor in some parts of the world.

And we haven't seen anything yet.

I'm pretty sure climate change also has a lot more to do with the food inflation we're seeing but I suppose they, whoever they may be, won't let us see that. ?

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Seems moot. From the article;

Wait until climate change becomes the main driver for migrating refugees.  Then we'll really see just how troubling the politicization of an issue can be.  Denial will be a river.

What is moot? Closing Roxham Road?

Are you saying climate change will make new roads??

[PIK]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:36 PM, I am Groot said:

Uh, no it has not. It didn't start until 2015, and in 2016 there were about 300 such crossings. Then big mouth Trudeau decided to virtue signal to the world and the few hundred became tens of thousands. Word got out, and it rose to 60,000 crossings last year. And it likely will continue to grow as it's becoming more widely known as an easy path into Canada.

Sanctuary cities are a problem, but the real problem is our refugee laws, how long it takes to get through the process, and how easy it is to get a claim accepted without any evidence. Not to mention that we don't have any real enforcement mechanism to kick people out when they overstay.

Basically, once you're here you're here permanently unless you're repeatedly caught breaking the law in a major way or rape a schoolbus full of babies or something.

People of San Francisco are tired of crime,drugs and their city becoming a dump. Dems are in trouble. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

What is moot? Closing Roxham Road?

That's right.

[blackbird]

Former NDP leader Mulcair said Canada brought in one million immigrants and refugees last year and said that was a GOOD THING.  No wonder our health care system is so badly strained.  No wonder there is a housing crisis.  It is a fact, Canada had a health care crisis for years now.  This mass migration into Canada has just made the shortages that much worse.  Governments like NDP and Liberal don't care because it just means more votes for their parties.

Edited March 24, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's right.

Closing Roxham Road will make absolutely no difference because all the illegal migrants crossing there will simply be able to cross at regular border crossings and will be welcomed with open arms.  Canada is a post national state and now belongs to the U.N. and the third world.

Edited March 24, 2023 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:36 PM, I am Groot said:

Uh, no it has not. It didn't start until 2015, and in 2016 there were about 300 such crossings. Then big mouth Trudeau decided to virtue signal to the world and the few hundred became tens of thousands. Word got out, and it rose to 60,000 crossings last year. And it likely will continue to grow as it's becoming more widely known as an easy path into Canada.

Sanctuary cities are a problem, but the real problem is our refugee laws, how long it takes to get through the process, and how easy it is to get a claim accepted without any evidence. Not to mention that we don't have any real enforcement mechanism to kick people out when they overstay.

Basically, once you're here you're here permanently unless you're repeatedly caught breaking the law in a major way or rape a schoolbus full of babies or something.

"It has existed since the early 19th century, before the Canada–United States border was formally established along the 45th parallel north between the St. Lawrence and Connecticut rivers."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxham_Road

 

[Moonlight Graham]

Maybe they'll close Roxham Rd and open Roxham Highway.