CSIS documents reveal Chinese strategy to influence Canada’s 2021 election

[Moonlight Graham]

Anyone with ties to the CCP at this point should be removed from the country.  If you're a naturalized Canadian citizen and you break your legal oath of citizenship and your allegiance to the Queen (and her heirs/successors) you should have your citizenship revoked and be deported.  Bye.

If you're a politician who breaks their oath you should be punished to the full extend of the law.

The CCP is right to want the Liberals re-elected, they're a bunch of corrupt wusses and soft on security.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Anyone with ties to the CCP at this point should be removed from the country.

How are you able to shop without buying anything made in China?

[Moonlight Graham]

17 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How are you able to shop without buying anything made in China?

We can still trade with them.  But start moving a lot of our manufacturing, especially anything IT related, elsewhere.

I'm willing to eat grass rather than let them push us around.

[eyeball]

Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

We can still trade with them.

Only because our convictions lack courage. Full disclosure, I buy Chinese stuff too...I doubt anyone could shop without doing so.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Obama is not Biden. And from what I've read Putin intended to invade Russia all along but was waiting for Trump's second term so he could pull the US out of NATO. 

I guess that outweighs all the facts then, hey? ?

[blackbird]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:42 AM, Moonbox said:

much like the Russians supported the Republicans over the Democrats. 

Never heard that Russia got involved in the elections in the U.S. like the organized way China did in Canada to defeat certain Conservative candidates.   Are you making that up?

[blackbird]

I was incorrect.  It is widely reported that Russia did interfere in the U.S. elections in 2016 and 2020.

However, the allegation that Trump conspired with Russia in the 2016 election was found to be phony, and without any merit, and he was exonerated.

[I am Groot]

18 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I guess that outweighs all the facts then, hey? ?

I didn't think facts were something you much cared for.

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I didn't think facts were something you much cared for.

That's a really lame excuse for the dire lack of facts in your posts.

Truth be told, if you look back at my post that you're referencing, all that's in it is facts.

Crimea was overrun while Obama was prez, (100% true) Russia did nothing while Trump was prez (100% true), as soon as Biden was inaugurated the Russians started massing troops along Ukraine's border (100% true). 

You added some rumour and some low-IQ speculation into the mix:

Quote

And from what I've read Putin intended to invade Russia all along but was waiting for Trump's second term so he could pull the US out of NATO. 

Do you understand how generally worthless your quote is, next to simple, inconvenient truths you were faced with? 

For you to come out insulting me on the other side of that exchange is delusional. 

[I am Groot]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Crimea was overrun while Obama was prez, (100% true) Russia did nothing while Trump was prez (100% true),

Why should you use military means to get what you're already being given? Trump was his submissive little boytoy. Putin used Trump's time in office to continue to increase his influence in both Eastern and Western Europe, along with the middle east while Trump divided western allies and drove them away from America.

And it was Trump's own national security advisor who said Putin was waiting for Trump to withdraw from NATO.

I don't know how you Trump admirers manage to reconcile your admiration for the man with the disdain and contempt virtually all of his own people have expressed towards him and his time in office. But it's quite odd.

Edited February 19, 2023 by I am Groot

[WestCanMan]

18 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Why should you use military means to get what you're already being given? Trump was his submissive little boytoy. Putin used Trump's time in office to continue to increase his influence in both Eastern and Western Europe, along with the middle east while Trump divided western allies and drove them away from America.

Remember the whole part about facts? 

Why don't you have any, again?

Do you have any cites for your theory that "Trump allowed Russia's influence to grow"? 

Was Trump the one that shut down Nordstream 2 from being built or was that Obama? It was Trump. 

Did Biden allow NS2 t continue? Yup. Then he committed a terrorist attack on it. 

Yay?

[Moonbox]

On 2/18/2023 at 5:39 PM, blackbird said:

Never heard that Russia got involved in the elections in the U.S. like the organized way China did in Canada to defeat certain Conservative candidates.   Are you making that up?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/russias-prigozhin-admits-interfering-us-elections-2022-11-07/

No, I'm not making it up, but I'm not surprised you don't know anything about this.  They don't talk about it much on the...Russian troll farms.  

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/russias-prigozhin-admits-interfering-us-elections-2022-11-07/

No, I'm not making it up, but I'm not surprised you don't know anything about this.  They don't talk about it much on the...Russian troll farms.  

Sorry, I was wrong.  I found some articles that talk about Russian interference in U.S. elections.  My mistake.

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

Sorry, I was wrong.  I found some articles that talk about Russian interference in U.S. elections.  My mistake.

You were wrong in fact, but perhaps less so in substance. And certainly in comparison.

The Russian interference in both elections was found to be fairly minor and generalized. It is widely agreed by neutral sources that it had little impact and what impact it might have had would likely have been to push people in directions they were already going.

For example:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-did-russian-interference-affect-the-2016-election/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/09/russian-trolls-twitter-had-little-influence-2016-voters/

In short, the 'interference' was things like POSSIBLY orchastrating the timing of the wikileaks documents. But - those were REAL documents, the info was real. Russians frequently reinforced negative impressions of Clinton and strongly promoted them, but they were based in real things the Clintons had done or were accused of.  And the effect was minimal. They did it in a broad way rather than a particularly targeted way and while it certainly will have had some effect it almost certainly made no difference in the election

In the Canadian case, the Chinese out and out lied to Canadian Chinese voters and spread disinformation in a very organized fashion targeting vulnerable ridings. And according to the CSIS reports, they were successful in turning a few ridings with their efforts - in other words there are more liberal seats and fewer CPC seats right now directly because of their efforts. The Richmond riding in greater vancouver is an example.

So - it would be relatively accurate to say the Russians did not interfere effectively in US campaigns while the Chinese absolutely did in Canadian ones.

 

[CdnFox]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-interference-concerning-analyst-1.6752577

 

Quote

 

The Globe and Mail reported Friday that secret and top-secret documents from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) said Beijing sought to ensure a Liberal minority government and the defeat of several Conservative candidates in the 2021 federal election. A former Chinese consul-general in Vancouver bragged about her efforts in helping to defeat two Conservative MPs, according to the reports detailed in the Globe story.

Poilievre said Friday he finds it hard to believe Trudeau wasn't aware of CSIS's findings.

"Justin Trudeau knew about this interference, and he covered it up because he benefited from it," Poilievre told a news conference. He did not cite evidence beyond the Globe story.

"He's perfectly happy to let a foreign, authoritarian government interfere in our elections as long as they're helping him."

 

And that's it in a nutshell. He's known for years about it - he KNOWS it gave him a few seats that he wouldn't have had and he likes that.

[I am Groot]

More on China's efforts at projecting power and influence into Canada. The military has found Chinese sonobuoys in Canadian waters meant to track the movements of American submarines. The response of the Liberal government so far has been effectively zero, aside from criticizing CSIS and demanding they find out who leaked the documents.

The Globe has also reported that Canadian politicians, officials and business executives are main targets of Chinese government espionage that employs blackmail, bribery and sexual seduction, with Beijing even enlisting the Bank of China in its foreign-influence activities.

Secret and top-secret CSIS documents viewed by The Globe outline how China instructed its consulates and visa offices to alert Beijing to prominent and influential Canadians – whom it called “work targets” – planning to visit China.

In addition, the Bank of China has been told to inform consulates of the travel plans of Canadian business executives attending conferences sponsored by the state-owned financial institution, according to a Feb. 2, 2022 intelligence report that is rated top secret.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadian-military-found-chinese-monitoring-buoys-in-the-arctic/

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, I am Groot said:

More on China's efforts at projecting power and influence into Canada. The military has found Chinese sonobuoys in Canadian waters meant to track the movements of American submarines. The response of the Liberal government so far has been effectively zero, aside from criticizing CSIS and demanding they find out who leaked the documents.

The Globe has also reported that Canadian politicians, officials and business executives are main targets of Chinese government espionage that employs blackmail, bribery and sexual seduction, with Beijing even enlisting the Bank of China in its foreign-influence activities.

Secret and top-secret CSIS documents viewed by The Globe outline how China instructed its consulates and visa offices to alert Beijing to prominent and influential Canadians – whom it called “work targets” – planning to visit China.

In addition, the Bank of China has been told to inform consulates of the travel plans of Canadian business executives attending conferences sponsored by the state-owned financial institution, according to a Feb. 2, 2022 intelligence report that is rated top secret.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadian-military-found-chinese-monitoring-buoys-in-the-arctic/

Obviously the liberals are fine with it. Nothing will change till another gov't gets in.

[I am Groot]

Global news has just identified the first of the candidates China helped get elected, and the story is not pretty. His name is Han Dong, and the Liberal Party establishment were informed that CSIS strongly suspected his loyalty was to the Chinese government before he was even nominated.

They ignored the warning.

According to the report from Global Chinese foreign students were ordered to volunteer on his campaign, and to join the Liberal party so they could vote for him in the nomination. They were told that if they didn't their student visas would be canceled. Bus loads of Chinese seniors were brought into the riding with the candidate's name written on pieces of paper they kept in their sleeves.

The Liberal establishment was again warned by the person in charge of the GTA candidates.

They ignored the warning.

Dong is now a proud member of the Liberal Party caucus sitting in the House of Commons.

https://globalnews.ca/video/9511108/global-national-feb-24-9/

[I am Groot]

So we now know the value of a foreign agent registry, the kind Australia and the US put in place but which the Liberals have refused to implement. It's not illegal to be an undeclared agent of a foreign government in Canada. It's not illegal to operate on their behalf, even as an MP and political bagman for political parties here. It's no illegal to meet with them, get orders, try to influence others around you, including your political party, industry reps and private citizens on that foreign government's behalf. It's not illegal to pass information to that foreign government from inside caucus or parliament or government - as long as it's not information protected under the Official Secrets Act.

And the Liberals want to keep it that way. Because to do otherwise would force party bagman like Chan to either register or be arrested. And that would put an end to the money he's funneling into the party. It would force people like Dong to declare or be arrested, which would force the Liberals to boot him, and probably others from their caucus.

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/9504291/liberals-csis-warning-2019-election-candidate-chinese-interference/

[CdnFox]

Yeash. It's getting to the point where we should stop referring to it as 'an election' and start calling it 'regime change". 

It is beyond terrible that Canadians can see this stuff, and from csis mind you not some conspiracy site, and not be furious. The fact that ANYONE will still vote liberal is shaming.

[West]

Chinese spy Justin Trudeau is now refusing any enquiry

[Goddess]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:42 AM, Moonbox said:

What's problematic here, I think, is how permissive Canada seems to have been over the last 15-20 years.  I never understood why it took years for Canada to finally ban Huawei.  I don't understand why we allow Chinese quasi-police stations in Canada to monitor and influence their expats and students here.

Plus, Trudeau allowed the Chinese military to train here and he allowed Chinese military scientists to work on viruses at the NML in Winnipeg and freely transport them back to China, something that wouldn't be allowed to happen in the US. It's well-known that we don't have strict laws on that, like the US does and so China takes advantage of it.  2 Chinese military scientists were expelled from the NML and sent back to China right before covid and the Trudeau government refuses to say why.  Many are tying the outbreak to this incident and there is quite a lot of circumstantial evidence that the covid virus started in Canada's NML lab and was transported to China.

The Huawei thing was bigger than most people realize.  All the other G7 countries banned Huawei long before Canada and the US warned Canada about allowing Huawei to set up here.

I've noticed a chill between the US and Canada in the last few years.  I believe Trudeau's bizarre friendship with the PRC is the cause of our issues with trade, etc with the US.

That hurt us economically way more than the Freedom convoy did.  And will continue to hurt us.  Chinese interference in our elections (and Trudeau's lack of action on it) and allowing the Chinese police stations to continue on, is being noticed by the US, I'm sure.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Goddess

[Moonbox]

I don't think there's much of a chill between Canada, but I doubt that the G7, NATO or the 5 eyes take Trudeau very seriously, or trust him on the most sensitive stuf

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I've noticed a chill between the US and Canada in the last few years.  I believe Trudeau's bizarre friendship with the PRC is the cause of our issues with trade, etc with the US.

I think most of what you're saying here is correct, but the biggest trade issues we've had over the last 10 years or so were shitty score-points-with-the-greens politics from Obama and Biden, and then the retarded tariff policies of Trump.  The worst you can say about Trudeau on these files is that he really didn't help or improve the situation.  As usual, he's generally useless.   

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The worst you can say about Trudeau on these files is that he really didn't help or improve the situation

Well the free trade agreement was worse, and it was trudeau who started off with the "score-points-with-the-left" shenannigans there.  And he let Freeland publicly bad mouth trump pretty seriously before starting - which can't possibly help given how sensitive he is. So that probably did make things worse and without a doubt the deal is worse.

Of course that was just one of his many trade gaffs. There was india - his little fashion show antics and inviting the guy who tried to kill their leader to dinner cost us what was a very lucrative trade arrangement. We'd spent years building up a large trade surplus with them starting with harper and in a month or so after his visit that had all gone bye bye.

And of course there's the pissing off of Saudi arabia which reduced trade with them  But at least the weren't a MAJOR partner.

So - he didn't just "not help".  He did make things worse. And not with just the US.

[West]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Plus, Trudeau allowed the Chinese military to train here and he allowed Chinese military scientists to work on viruses at the NML in Winnipeg and freely transport them back to China, something that wouldn't be allowed to happen in the US. It's well-known that we don't have strict laws on that, like the US does and so China takes advantage of it.  2 Chinese military scientists were expelled from the NML and sent back to China right before covid and the Trudeau government refuses to say why.  Many are tying the outbreak to this incident and there is quite a lot of circumstantial evidence that the covid virus started in Canada's NML lab and was transported to China.

The Huawei thing was bigger than most people realize.  All the other G7 countries banned Huawei long before Canada and the US warned Canada about allowing Huawei to set up here.

I've noticed a chill between the US and Canada in the last few years.  I believe Trudeau's bizarre friendship with the PRC is the cause of our issues with trade, etc with the US.

That hurt us economically way more than the Freedom convoy did.  And will continue to hurt us.  Chinese interference in our elections (and Trudeau's lack of action on it) and allowing the Chinese police stations to continue on, is being noticed by the US, I'm sure.

Our biggest issue in this country is the "centrists" have been lulled to sleep and are generally living in a state of denial, even making excuses for folks like this lunatic Trudeau. To be fair, Conservatives do the same about Poilievre