The Left is Destroying Western Civilization

[Zeitgeist]

48 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

that's very Christian in fact

the Great Awokening

the ancient Christians did not come from Judea, did not live in Judea

the story of Christ spread to the Roman Pagans

it was the Pagans who converted to Christianity, not the Jews

and in the ancient Christian world, they were tearing down what was "normative"

to include pederasty

I’m speaking in particular about that which is psychologically healthy and fairly standard socialization and transference.   It would be quite universal across cultures, though certainly there will be outliers, just like cannibalism might be somewhat acceptable in a very small segment of the population for certain periods.

There are big implications for calling that which falls outside the normative range normal and for casting aspersions towards the normative.  An example is gender dysphoria, which was and is considered a psychological disorder.  We should be careful what we normalize, because the impacts can be devastating.  There’s a great deal of gender experimentation and confusion being “affirmed” by governments.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

This is nonsense.  No one I have ever read has had your particular interpretation.  
 

But, even if I grant that, my question about the morality of the killing still applies.  Which was the point. 

it is impossible to prove either way

without proof, there is no point in argument

it's just a conversation, not everything is an argument

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

There are big implications for calling that which falls outside the normative range normal and far casting aspersions towards the normative.  An example is gender dysphoria, which was and is considered a psychological disorder.  We should be careful what we normalize, because the impacts can be devastating.  There’s a great deal of gender experimentation and confusing being “affirmed” by governments.  

there is a larger epoch in play

governments are spiralling into collapse, ceasing to function

in the face of Marshall McLuhan's Guerrilla Information War

[TreeBeard]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it is impossible to prove either way

without proof, there is no point in argument

it's just a conversation, not everything is an argument

All we need to do is read the bible…. It says “men”.  This is how scholars have interpreted it.  There hasn’t really been any other interpretations of it that I have seen, but I stand to be corrected.  
 

So, making up interpretations outside of the general consensus and saying “impossible to prove either way” is not true at all.  You don’t just get to make up nonsense and then claim “prove me wrong, you can’t”. 

[I am Groot]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

So the writer doesn't like these things.  So ?  

One of our values is that we come to the table and deal with each other.

1/3 of BC residents are in favour of changing the name of the province and that number grows as the population ages.

Is it 'as the population ages' or 'as more and more young people emerge from an educational system that teaches them that everything about Canada's history and heritage is something to be ashamed of? Is it that the population ages or that the Liberal party's effort to destroy our heritage and our connections with our past (otherwise known as cultural genocide) has more effect? Is it 'as the population ages' or the relentless barrage of contempt and scorn heaped upon everything about Canada's history, development, and western culture with virtually no contradiction has more effect?

When you suggest it's one of our values that we come to the table and deal with each other... is that something that is also fading away (along with any sense of pride in Canada) as we bring in more people who have no such values and who are never taught it here?

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What do you want to do about that ?   There's nothing enshrined in the Charter of Rights that says you get to preserve the names of Canadian institutions and landmarks.

There's nothing in the Charter of Rights that prevents Canada from falling apart, and collapsing into various regional nations either. And with the way Trudeau and the rest of the progressive media and academia have worked so tirelessly to destroy all sense of nationhood, pride and shared cultural identity what is to hold Canada together? Nations don't stay together merely because it's more economically profitable to do so. Without a sense of shared identity they break up.

What do I want to do about it? I've kind of already mentioned stopping all government subsidies at all levels for artists. Let them flounder. I'd also go through schools and universities with a chain saw, firing most of those in charge, eliminating two-thirds of non-teaching administrators. redesigning the curriculums, ending tenure, and firing anyone who inserts their own political ideology into that curriculum. Instead of getting rid of the CBC, I'd just fire most of the people in charge and repurpose the network to put out broadcasting that brings Canadians together and teaches them pride in their country along with giving them unbiased, unideologically slanted news everyone can trust.

Edited February 28, 2023 by I am Groot

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m speaking in particular about that which is psychologically healthy and fairly standard socialization and transference.   It would be quite universal across cultures, though certainly there will be outliers, just like cannibalism might be somewhat acceptable in a vary small segment of the population for certain periods.

the standardization is Christian

imposed by the Europeans, who have ruled the world for centuries

there are no cultures left which have not overthrown their own values in favour of Christian ones

[I am Groot]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

People explode their heads when you suggest little things like that, but it's a good idea to start small with these changes so they'll be ready for the big ones...

Little changes like changing the name of the province to something else in a foreign language only 1/10th of 1% of people understand? What do you regard as a big change? All the white people leaving so the natives can get back to being hunter gatherers again?

[Zeitgeist]

23 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

there is a larger epoch in play

governments are spiralling into collapse, ceasing to function

in the face of Marshall McLuhan's Guerrilla Information War

Well I think there’s a frightening enforcement of acceptance of values that run counter to the values that have existed within most cultures for almost all of history. It’s crowding out free speech, religious/spiritual beliefs, pluralism of political views, etc.

While Blackbird’s Christianity might be narrower or more particular than mine, I think that his reaction is quite reasonable to the radical dismantling of tradition and faith.  I would rather live in a world where Treebeard is the outlier than Blackbird, because I like traditional family values and think that they’re foundational to any great civilization, but the reality is that the Marxist-Nihilists have taken charge.  You see it in our government and workplace training.  A kind of radical materialism has taken hold.  Even many people who call themselves Christian or spiritual or conservative are practically speaking following the same trajectory. Hardner, for example, sounds to me like a Marxist cultural revolutionary, yet he calls himself conservative.  That’s very common now.

Everyone is a radical leftist now because it’s enforced policy now, and I do think it’s destroying our civilization.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. ... young people emerge from an educational system that teaches them that everything about Canada's history and heritage is something to be ashamed of? Is it that the population ages or that the Liberal party's effort to destroy our heritage and our connections with our past (otherwise known as cultural genocide) has more effect? Is it 'as the population ages' or the relentless barrage of contempt and scorn heaped upon everything about Canada's history, development, and western culture with virtually no contradiction has more effect?

2. When you suggest it's one of our values that we come to the table and deal with each other... is that something that is also fading away (along with any sense of pride in Canada) as we bring in more people who have no such values and who are never taught it here?

 

Sorry, I just don't have time for the full response you deserve.

1. This is the marketplace of ideas thing, I think.  It's fine for people on here to shit on Canada and call themselves patriots but if someone changes a word in the national anthem or wears a white poppy they're some kind of traitor.

2. I know lots of immigrants and they come here because they prefer this system.  It stands to reason. Otherwise why would they come? 

 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

  What do you regard as a big change? All the white people leaving so the natives can get back to being hunter gatherers again?

No.  But the complaints about Canada that I read on here from patriots tell me we could learn from first Nations...

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry, I just don't have time for the full response you deserve.

1. This is the marketplace of ideas thing, I think.  It's fine for people on here to shit on Canada and call themselves patriots but if someone changes a word in the national anthem or wears a white poppy they're some kind of traitor.

2. I know lots of immigrants and they come here because they prefer this system.  It stands to reason. Otherwise why would they come? 

 

 

 

Ha, that system is being actively destroyed.

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

But things outside the “normative range” are not bad either.  Like being left-handed, while not being normal, is also not bad. 

That's not what the nuns told my wife. They hit her with sticks and tied her left hand behind her back.  I'd hate to think what happened to 1st Nation's lefties. There's probably a special place in Hell for those poor wretched heathens - something really old school Biblical, like an Inquisition and Groundhog's Day rolled into one...for Infinity.

Speaking of which, Pat Robertson says Heaven is like Sunday School that goes on forever.  I imagine after 437 trillion years of that even Jesus would be thinking about slashing his wrists.

[Nefarious Banana]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 But the complaints about Canada that I read on here from patriots tell me we could learn from first Nations...

Sounds like you've bought-in to the 'keepers of the land' fallacy . . . . marketing at its finest for the 'searching for meaning' urbanites.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Sounds like you've bought-in to the 'keepers of the land' fallacy . . . . marketing at its finest for the 'searching for meaning' urbanites.

I think one thing we could learn from is to organize ourselves into much smaller territories/jurisdictions/nations.  Doing this could make it much easier to manage lands, resources and many other things more according to local values and using ecological knowledge of the people who live in the region and call it home.

The most common thing connecting the collapse of marine fisheries on coasts 5000 miles from one another is that both were mismanaged from thousands of miles away from the nearest ocean according to the values found elsewhere.

Edited February 28, 2023 by eyeball

[TreeBeard]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I think one thing we could learn from is to organize ourselves into much smaller territories/jurisdictions/nations.  Doing this could make it much easier to manage lands, resources…

You don’t think this would just lead to squabbling by these smaller groups?  First Nations certainly fought (literally) with each other over land and resources.  Do you think this is a bit of ignoring reality in favour of an idealized version of these groups’ interactions?

[TreeBeard]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Retract your lie.  

Retract your demand for me to retract?  Or do you deny what Leviticus says?

[eyeball]

35 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You don’t think this would just lead to squabbling by these smaller groups?  First Nations certainly fought (literally) with each other over land and resources.  Do you think this is a bit of ignoring reality in favour of an idealized version of these groups’ interactions?

Perhaps on some level - what I'm talking about is probably better known as bioregionalism.

Quote

 

Bioregionalism is a philosophy that suggests that political, cultural, and economic systems are more sustainable and just if they are organized around naturally defined areas called bioregions, similar to ecoregions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioregionalism

It's definitely hippy/commie stuff, I mean don't get me wrong if/when we're all reduced to being free men on the land  I can be as red-necked as it takes too. 

[Nationalist]

On 2/24/2023 at 1:46 PM, Moonbox said:

No you don't, and you've just been caught doing the same thing here with eyeball.  You haven't been here long, but you've already shown a pattern of trolling that's obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Ummm...do I need to state the obvious here?

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Retract your demand for me to retract?  Or do you deny what Leviticus says?

Dougie already answered.  Why do you think Leviticus said this, Socrates?  I’m not pretending to know the answer. I want to see if you can conceive of a context for such an opinion.  I already know the 2023 Vanity Fair morality that you endlessly tout. Teach me something.

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

none of those cultures created Western civilization

the power of Christ is in the idea of the sacred individual

inalienable rights endowed by the Creator

only Christians have ever gone to war to free all the slaves everywhere,  or die trying

Well said. Somebody give the man a chicken dinner.

Even if christianity isn't your cup of tea, you've got to know history. Then you'll know there is a difference.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

This is nonsense.  No one I have ever read has had your particular interpretation.  
 

But, even if I grant that, my question about the morality of the killing still applies.  Which was the point. 

Unfortunately it's you who don't know the topic material. Shut up and learn, instead of flailing and yapping.

It's ok to ask questions...

[OftenWrong]

20 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Dougie already answered.  Why do you think Leviticus said this, Socrates?  I’m not pretending to know the answer. I want to see if you can conceive of a context for such an opinion.  I already know the 2023 Vanity Fair morality that you endlessly tout. Teach me something.

The bigotry towards christians is another laughable trait of these conflicted neo-liberal zoom-dweebie types. You can see their in association when they give each other ups.

Even though I am not a christian I can still entertain a useful discussion, without having to revert to "Christians are stuupid! Meow Meow".

Anyway, when it comes down to it I'll take a room full of bible thumpers over a room full of atheists any day. Any day. At least I know where they're coming from.

With atheists, I see it eventually degenerate into a complete all out shit-kicking. ?

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Dougie already answered.

He said it didn’t mean what it said.  Which is rather silly. 
 

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why do you think Leviticus said this

Why did men write this, or why did God inspire this?  The first, I think we can answer.  If it’s the second, then it’s open to interpretation. 

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

He said it didn’t mean what it said.  Which is rather silly. 
 

Why did men write this, or why did God inspire this?  The first, I think we can answer.  If it’s the second, then it’s open to interpretation. 

Shallow.  If Leviticus is in and around 3000-3500 years old and captures a people’s struggle for survival, including the establishment of rules that such people deem essential to their survival, there may be arguments beyond, “It’s the patriarchy, man.”  There are multiple stories of how a decline in morality leads to cultural dissolution and vulnerability.  Sodom and Gomorrah is one example.  Of course though, people kept posting inappropriate “patriarchal” views on social media 3000 years ago and it took us this long to take down the culprits.

Do you think a homosexual society could reproduce and propagate itself 3000 years ago?  Was Huxley writing about the state using tech to take over reproduction 3000 years ago?  Enlighten me, Socrates.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[TreeBeard]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Shallow.  If Leviticus is in and around 3000-3500 years old and captures a people’s struggle for survival, including the establishment of rules that such people deem essential to their survival, there may be arguments beyond, “It’s the patriarchy, man.”  There are multiple stories of how a decline in morality leads to cultural dissolution and vulnerability.  Sodom and Gomorrah is one example.  Of course though, people kept posting inappropriate “patriarchal” views on social media 3000 years ago and it took us this long to take down the culprits.

Do you think a homosexual society could reproduce and propagate itself 3000 years ago?  Was Huxley writing about the state using tech to take over reproduction 3000 years ago?  Enlighten me, Socrates.  

i thought you said the bible didn’t say to kill gay people…?  Now your argument is that they had their justifications for doing so .

However, my issue is not that people killed each other for bad reasons 3000 years ago.  My issue is that people believe this is a divinely inspired book that we should base our morals on today.   A divinely inspired book from an all-loving god who is still teaching us to do good based on the book.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by TreeBeard