The Left is Destroying Western Civilization

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

however the bible actually condones slavery, and was used by other Christians to perpetuate the practice.  

That is not correct.  There was slavery mentioned in the Bible but the Bible has teachings on how the slaves at that period in history were to be treated fairly and properly.  Christianity and the Bible was not meant to change all the bad social or political systems going on in the world through history.   It is not a political revolution document.  The message of the Bible is to call individual people out of the evil in the world and to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Remember the whole world practiced slavery for thousands of years.  The Bible is a not political document meant to bring about some kind of political revolution in the world.  That is not the purpose of the Bible.  Today there are around 27 million slaves of various kinds in the world.  But here is some truth about the subject.

"Jesus and the apostles did not outright condemn slavery. They didn’t need to. The effect of the gospel is that lives are changed, one by one, and those changed lives in turn bring transformation to entire families, clans, and cultures. Christianity was never designed to be a political movement, but, over time, it naturally affected political policy. Alexander MacLaren wrote that the gospel “meddles directly with no political or social arrangements, but lays down principles which will profoundly affect these, and leaves them to soak into the general mind” (The Expositor’s Bible, vol. VI, Eerdmans, 1940, p. 301). In nations where Christianity spread and took firm hold, slavery was brought to an end through the efforts of born-again individuals."

Does the Bible condone slavery? | GotQuestions.org

God never intended for Christianity or the Bible to completely change the world from the evil condition it is in.  Jesus said there would still be wars, etc.  and that is what we have seen through the centuries.  The world is an evil place because man fell in the garden of Eden.  It won't get any better until Jesus Christ returns to earth to establish his millenial kingdom on earth.  Actually the world is becoming worse as the Bible says it would.

"Some criticize the Bible because it did not demand an immediate overthrow of every ingrained, centuries-old sinful custom of the day. But, as Warren Wiersbe pointed out, “The Lord chooses to change people and society gradually, through the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the proclamation of the truth of the Word of God” (The Wiersbe Bible Commentary, David C. Cook, 2007, p. 245)."

God did not create a world of robots.  Man rebelled against God and this resulted in a very broken, corrupt, fallen world.  He gave man free will to choose to follow Jesus Christ or not to follow.  Those who believe are saved for eternity.  Those who reject him are lost.  

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by blackbird

[Nationalist]

Is the new Liberal destroying western civilization?

Can anyone point to a single thing they've done that's resulted in a positive outcome for society?

When will they be happy? When Trump dies? When Europe is at war? When the USA is no longer a sovereign nation?

The world is splitting in two. A real war is being fomented. I would plead with Liberals to take honest stock of this Great Reset. But I know that won't happen.

When the dust settles, a very few will have power over everyone left. And in cafes all across the western world, broken survivors of this Great Reset will be heard saying...

"But how were we supposed to know this would happen?"

[Michael Hardner]

45 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

 

My view is that the new generation should be guided toward paying a mortgage, for example, owning private property.  

Between Zeitgeist, Treebeard, and yourself there's great potential for a sharing of perspectives.

Your views on the emerging generation would likely be shared by them, since they inherit an economy that has decided they shouldn't be paid enough to live.

That alone will ensure that the future is tied to reality.

 

  As for passing on the values of the doomed boomers... the doomers.... sure focus on that.  My grandparents used to do jigsaw puzzles in the home, so writing posts to the young to appreciate the value of the bible is probably as useful as that.

We owe our society to a lot of things, but especially adapting to changes such as the decline of religion, the ascendant French and American philosophy around governance, the influence of the Chicago school, liberation theology, and media media media.

We do have more of a culture of discourse than we realize in Canada, and that will help us.

 

[Zeitgeist]

12 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

I’m dismissive of ridiculous comments that equate values of the bible with Canadian values today.  We’re way past biblical values, which are clearly sexist, homophobic and didn’t value free expression whatsoever.  
 

Of course Christians were the ones who were the ancestors of our traditions…. that’s kind of obvious.  But these Christians were smart enough not to use the bible as a guide. 
 

Your comments on slavery are naive….  Some Christians used the bible to condemn slavery, however the bible actually condones slavery, and was used by other Christians to perpetuate the practice.  

No it didn’t.  The Bible is about liberation and human rights.  Your ignorance is staggering.  What do you think society was like for people who weren’t Roman citizens in the time of Herod?   What about for the slaves under Pharaoh during the time of Moses?  You don’t understand the origins of your rights.  Christianity was a liberating force for women and minorities because it emphasized that all humans are created equally and in the image of God.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

When will they be happy? When Trump dies? When Europe is at war? When the USA is no longer a sovereign nation?

They might be hijacked by a foreign influence that seeks to make us attack one another.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Between Zeitgeist, Treebeard, and yourself there's great potential for a sharing of perspectives.

Your views on the emerging generation would likely be shared by them, since they inherit an economy that has decided they shouldn't be paid enough to live.

That alone will ensure that the future is tied to reality.

 

  As for passing on the values of the doomed boomers... the doomers.... sure focus on that.  My grandparents used to do jigsaw puzzles in the home, so writing posts to the young to appreciate the value of the bible is probably as useful as that.

We owe our society to a lot of things, but especially adapting to changes such as the decline of religion, the ascendant French and American philosophy around governance, the influence of the Chicago school, liberation theology, and media media media.

We do have more of a culture of discourse than we realize in Canada, and that will help us.

 

You dismiss the values of millions of people in this, doing exactly what the very problem is that creates irreparable division.

"We are the future, forget the past, they're just old".

 

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

They might be hijacked by a foreign influence that seeks to make us attack one another.

True.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

I want to ask you a question since you seem to be reasonable in your views, most times, sometimes.?

You also seem to be liked by some here, so your word has some weight.

Let's skip over the fake or not pleasantries. 

Have a practical question: 

How do you intend to reach out to the new generation with this message? Let's say you and I agree, how do we preach this message? Because as soon as you start telling the new generation which grew up on Twitter and instant gratification the above, what do you think the reaction will be? 

Looking for your view on how this message will be marketed and implemented towards the new generation. 

My view is that the new generation should be guided toward paying a mortgage, for example, owning private property. Before, people used to get up with the fear of God, to go to Church. That does not work anymore in my opinion, but getting up from bed to pay your debts, mortgages, I don't know about you, but for me, is what keeps me up at night.

I am not a communist to assume everything will be provided for me or a religious nut to think God will give me all on a platter. Man himself has to do the work. 

You’re talking about the importance of personal responsibility, which is based on the very Biblical idea that we are individuals with free will who have as much value as anyone else.  We are spiritual beings with souls. It’s an extremely empowering message that’s lost on those who fear making their own decisions and using their talents.

Having a mortgage and job do give one a sense of personal responsibility and fulfillment, but “man does not live on bread alone.”   It’s in our interactions with others that we learn and grow because our responsibility extends beyond self-gratification towards improving life for others.  Only a life of greater purpose beyond ourselves will provide a sense of a meaningful life worth living.  That’s the antidote to anxiety and depression. It’s not necessarily about the obvious charitable works all the time.  It’s more about using your unique gifts to improve conditions as much as you can.

My message to young people would be to listen, seek to understand, take care of your material needs, with some extras that make life enjoyable in your downtime, but also to aspire to greater purpose that gives back in some way   It doesn’t mean relying on the state to take care of you or mindlessly following an ideology   Religion is empty if it isn’t come by personally through contemplation and questioning.  Some people are agnostic or atheist, but recognize that much of what we value about our country and society derived from great stories of the upward movement towards liberation and enlightenment   The metaphor of light is very telling.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

God never intended for Christianity or the Bible to completely change the world from the evil condition it is in.

Well then what it the bloody point of it all?

Anyone with half a brain can take Occam's Razor to even just the Bible's reviews and doing unto others quickly emerges as the e=mc2 of how to get along with others and all anyone needs to know. Thankfully it can be taught without all the terror and gobbledygook by the time kids are ready to enter grade school.

Do unto everything for the same reason and voila, you have environmental consciousness - a land ethic as Aldo Leopold wrote in a Sand County Almanac.  Yes, it's really that simple and without all the alarmism and gobbledygook.

Edited February 20, 2023 by eyeball

[blackbird]

56 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well then what it the bloody point of it all?

Your point is a natural reaction and a good point on the surface of it.  But this is where you have to dig deeper and have some understanding of God's perspective as revealed in Holy Scripture.  

First, don't forget God is omnipotent, that is, all powerful.  Therefore of course, if he had wanted to, he could have created a world of robots.  Such a world could have been a perfect paradise with no evil, no wars, no crime, no corruption, and no illness and where all robotic beings could live forever.  How would that suit you?  But that was not his choice.

Instead he chose to create our first parents, Adam and Eve, in the garden of Eden, a paradise.  But they were not robots.  God created them with free will, the choice to follow God or to disobey God and rebel against him.  They were told they could eat of any tree except one tree.  Then the serpent came along and tempted Eve with his words.  Eve succumbed to the temptation and ate of the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam, and he also ate of it.

As a result, they became fallen human beings and as our first parents representing mankind, their fallen corrupt nature was passed on and inherited by all their descendants including us today.

God sees that man was a fallen, lost being, but because of his love for man, he sent his Son to die on a cross for the sins of mankind.  That was an expiation for sin or atonement.  This atonement was to redeem those who believe in his Son, Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.  

You say what was the point of it all?  The point is man caused the corrupt and evil world by rebelling against God.  In God's view justice was served.  God created man in his own image and mankind and all of creation belongs to him.  Therefore, we must accept God's purposes are his prerogative.  We do not get to decide how the world should be.  We are the fallen people who share in the consequences for the fall of man.  It is important to get an understanding of man's place in God's universe.  

People often think of God as some distant unknown person and somehow think he has no authority of them. This is where the error comes in.  People do not recognize they are merely created beings and God is our omnipotent Creator.  We must first, at least at a bare minimum, understand who God is and our own place in the universe as being created out of the dust of the earth and totally dependent on our Creator.  

God could have created a world without all the social problems, wars, slavery, and everything else, but that is not what God chose.  He gave man free will and man chose to rebel.  That is why the world is what it is.  The Holy Scriptures tell us what the solution is.  It is not a revolution or political solution.  It is a rebirth of individuals one at a time and a personal relationship with God through his Son.  That would seem to fit in with the concept of free will or personal choice.  That was God's decision.   Make any sense?

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well then what it the bloody point of it all?

Well i'm not religious but as an outsider looking in the bible was intended to be a PERSONAL moral document, not a societal one. In other words it was intended to change YOUR behavior, not correct the flaws in society at large. Of course one would argue that theoretically if everyone believed in the bible then the country would tend to follow suit over time. And in fact that is why our society is modeled on christian values more or less.

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Anyone with half a brain can take Occam's Razor to even just the Bible's reviews and doing unto others quickly emerges as the e=mc2 of how to get along with others and all anyone needs to know. Thankfully it can be taught without all the terror and gobbledygook by the time kids are ready to enter grade school.

I"m afraid that's not accurate.

First off that phrase is not a biblical commandment. Nor does it actually work well in real life. How do I know that you want to be treated the way I want to be treated? What if I firmly believe that biological males should be referred to as male or men and their pronouns should be he and his, and that I insist others treat me that way. Does that mean i should treat trans individuals the way I want to be treated? You see - it becomes problematic. 

It only works in a society where everyone shares the same values. That way what i think is the right way to treat people is the same as you and we can agree. Otherwise it's a broken idea.

The phrase probably should have been do unto others as they would like you to do unto them provided they do unto you as you prefer.  Even then it doesn't work well but it's at least more functional.

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Do unto everything for the same reason and voila, you have environmental consciousness - a land ethic as Aldo Leopold wrote in a Sand County Almanac.  Yes, it's really that simple and without all the alarmism and gobbledygook.

Again - simply not true. It's a case of reductum ad absurdium. (and no i don't feel like looking up the spelling for that )

People are never that simple. And trying to make things that simple is Awesome - if you work for Hallmark.  But has no value outside of that.  Pretending humans are simple and they're all of the same mind is a fast way to war historically.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Do unto everything for the same reason and voila, you have environmental consciousness

There is nothing wrong with individuals taking care of the environment in reasonable, responsible, manner.  But we do not worship the environment as nature was created to serve mankind, not the other way around.  Also, we are here primarily for the glory of God and yes we are to love our neighbour and contribute to the betterment of the world, but that is not by leftism or Socialism.  It has to be personal, voluntarily help, not state-ordained or compulsory wealth re-distribution.

Edited February 20, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

Just now, blackbird said:

Your point is a natural reaction and a good point on the surface of it.  But this is where you have to dig deeper and have some understanding of God's perspective as revealed in Holy Scripture.

No. I reject the appeal to an imaginary supernatural world of make believe - to reject using the very same powers of reason that God endowed us with.

If God is so omnipotent he can create a universe from scratch he can simply show me what I need to know...without all the gobbledygook.

If he needs to send me to Hell for not doing things your way then I guess it just is what it is. I'm pretty sure I'll be in good company and still scratching my head in everlasting disbelief.

 

 

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No. I reject the appeal to an imaginary supernatural world of make believe - to reject using the very same powers of reason that God endowed us with.

If God is so omnipotent he can create a universe from scratch he can simply show me what I need to know...without all the gobbledygook.

If he needs to send me to Hell for not doing things your way then I guess it just is what it is. I'm pretty sure I'll be in good company and still scratching my head in everlasting disbelief.

 

 

Pride cometh before the fall..

"Pride is the deadliest of all sins because it leads to all other sins. Pride is delusional, spiteful, and bitter. At its root, it declares, “I don’t want God to be God. I want to be God!”

Sinful pride is refusing to recognize God’s sovereign role in everything.

What Makes Pride a Sin? (christianity.com)

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

Just now, blackbird said:

Pride cometh before the fall..

Perhaps it's God who stumbled somewhere along the way. 

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

You dismiss the values of millions of people in this, doing exactly what the very problem is that creates irreparable division.

"We are the future, forget the past, they're just old".

 

I didn't dismiss them, as they are largely mine anyway.  I am merely saying goodbye.

The divisions will be "repaired" so to speak as we boomers die off, just as the sexual mores held by our parents went.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[blackbird]

The problem with leftism and why it is destroying western civilization is leftists want to be God and reject historic Judeo-Christian heritage and principles.  They want to be total dictators over society and impose their concept of morality, not God's.

[TreeBeard]

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

There was slavery mentioned in the Bible but the Bible has teachings on how the slaves at that period in history were to be treated fairly and properly.

The bible also teaches where to get slaves and who you can enslave.  
 

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

Remember the whole world practiced slavery for thousands of years. 

People ate shrimp for thousands of years too.  
Are you saying God is too impotent to command people not to hold other humans as slaves, but can tell people not to eat shrimp.   God’s priorities were messed up.  

Edited February 20, 2023 by TreeBeard

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 They want to be total dictators over society and impose their concept of morality, not God's.

Right, because democracy means doing what's in the bible right?

What claptrap this is...

[TreeBeard]

38 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The problem with leftism and why it is destroying western civilization is leftists want to be God and reject historic Judeo-Christian heritage and principles.  They want to be total dictators over society and impose their concept of morality, not God's.

Didn’t you just say in a previous post that God (the bible)  isn’t a political document and that it doesn’t correct every immoral issue in the world?   And that’s why He didn’t mention getting rid of slavery?   
 

Yet, in this post, you want laws that reflect God’s morality.  
 

So no more voting for women.  Bring back gathering slaves from the heathens around us.  Gay people can’t marry…. in fact, they can’t even live!  
 

Your biblical morality looks a lot like the Dark Ages.  

[blackbird]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What claptrap this is...

Only to the person who is full of himself and wants to play God over society with his own concept of what is morality.  

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Didn’t you just say in a previous post that God (the bible)  isn’t a political document and that it doesn’t correct every immoral issue in the world?   And that’s why He didn’t mention getting rid of slavery?   
 

Yet, in this post, you want laws that reflect God’s morality.  
 

So no more voting for women.  Bring back gathering slaves from the heathens around us.  Gay people can’t marry…. in fact, they can’t even live!  
 

Your biblical morality looks a lot like the Dark Ages.  

Says a guy who has no concept of morality or where it came from.

[OftenWrong]

32 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Says a guy who has no concept of morality or where it came from.

A-historic types are the greatest threat to a civilization. Leftism, in particular communism requires that past history be re-written, since the truth is their enemy. Therefore keeping people ignorant of the past is a hallmark of the left.

As we see right here, with these fellows...

[Army Guy]

20 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I've very little doubt the main distinction for you is that it was the Liberals doing the cuts, and therefore bad, because Liberalism is bad.  I'd love to hear your explanation otherwise though.  

That's what I have been doing, but you characterize that as "dragging you through the dirt".  ?

Your expressing "your" opinions, and then trying to fit them in to my narrative, There are millions reasons why "in my OPINION i thought what Chretien did was nothing more try and make a legacy of his name on the backs of tax payers, and government departments. The fact he was a liberal well that is part of the story, but not the main character. 

Like i said his entire tenue Canada's economic growth GDP numbers was flat, very little growth at all, not a good point of his hack and slash attempt to make good on deficit reductions, there was also slashing our entire security apparatus to the bone, if there was a spare dollar he cut it...hence the term of decade of darkness came from, but not just for DND but the entire security apparatus.

The Canadian dollar sunk to some of it's lowest values in his tenure. from a 1.26 on his election, to the highest 1.59 in 2001

USD to CAD historical exchange rate | OFX (CA)

All that pain that really would cost us more down the road,  what savings that were realized had to be invested back into departments that were cut to the bone. Well that was wiped out in a very short time, all for nothing.

I think over all there are much better ways to ensure that budgets are balanced, so they can not really get out of control as they are today... Todays Liberal deficits are mind blowing , how many years do you think it would take to balance those numbers, an entire generation, 2 or 3... is my bet.  

[Army Guy]

18 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

I’m dismissive of ridiculous comments that equate values of the bible with Canadian values today.  We’re way past biblical values, which are clearly sexist, homophobic and didn’t value free expression whatsoever.  
 

Of course Christians were the ones who were the ancestors of our traditions…. that’s kind of obvious.  But these Christians were smart enough not to use the bible as a guide. 
 

So it is ok to have our traditions come from Christians, but none of our values, and yet religion play a massive part in their lives back then... and we don't have to go back that far the fading of religion is a very recent thing maybe 20 to 30 years...

your naïve to think the bible did not reflect in our values, or laws, when it played a major role in their lives. at one time religion guided everything, from politics to war and everything in-between. there may not be much left to all this religious era today, but in our past history it play a big role, and you can doubt that all you want, but it is recorded in the history books.