Is Canada a full democracy?

[OftenWrong]

Is Canada a full democracy?

If by full you mean smashed drunk and staggering around, then yes,

it's very full

 

[Michael Hardner]

A friend of mine works at the Ontario 1-800 phone bank.

The health system is in bad shape, rent is through the ceiling.

What are people calling to complain about?

 

Digital ID.

[myata]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The health system is in bad shape, rent is through the ceiling.

What are people calling to complain about?

Change is not possible. Just relax, will ya. Ta-dah.

[CdnFox]

Full Democracy is not a desirable thing.  Full democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  It is the tyranny of the majority.

A representative democracy is a good thing, provided what's in place is a solid constitutional protection of the rights of the individual. Liberty - the ability to conduct your life without unreasonable interference from the gov't  - and freedom come from having a central authority that is effectively and strongly restricted from overreach, not from voting.

[blackbird]

I wonder how many people know that our so-called Charter of Rights says:  

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

This kind of wording really negates any stated rights because it gives politicians and bureaucracy the power to ignore and trample rights that people think they have.  Rights in Canada become a matter of authorities having their interpretation heavily-weighted in favour.  The belief that Canadians have rights is seriously overblown and exaggerated.  There is no such thing as inalienable rights in Canada's system.

Americans on the other hand, do have inalienable rights:

"The list is extensive, and the following are but a few:

To act in self-defense

To own private property

To work and enjoy the fruits of one’s labor

To move freely within the county or to another country

To worship or refrain from worshipping within a freely-chosen religion

To be secure in one’s home

To think freely."

Inalienable Rights - Definition, Examples, Cases (legaldictionary.net)

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I wonder how many people know that our so-called Charter of Rights says:  

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

This kind of wording really negates any stated rights because it gives politicians and bureaucracy the power to ignore and trample rights that people think they have.  Rights in Canada become a matter of authorities having their interpretation heavily-weighted in favour.  The belief that Canadians have rights is seriously overblown and exaggerated.  There is no such thing as inalienable rights in Canada's system.

Americans on the other hand, do have inalienable rights:

"The list is extensive, and the following are but a few:

To act in self-defense

To own private property

To work and enjoy the fruits of one’s labor

To move freely within the county or to another country

To worship or refrain from worshipping within a freely-chosen religion

To be secure in one’s home

To think freely."

Inalienable Rights - Definition, Examples, Cases (legaldictionary.net)

What specifically can they do in the USA that you cannot do here that is related to rights?  

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I wonder how many people know that our so-called Charter of Rights says:  

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

This kind of wording really negates any stated rights because it gives politicians and bureaucracy the power to ignore and trample rights that people think they have.  Rights in Canada become a matter of authorities having their interpretation heavily-weighted in favour.  The belief that Canadians have rights is seriously overblown and exaggerated.  There is no such thing as inalienable rights in Canada's system.

Americans on the other hand, do have inalienable rights:

"The list is extensive, and the following are but a few:

To act in self-defense

To own private property

To work and enjoy the fruits of one’s labor

To move freely within the county or to another country

To worship or refrain from worshipping within a freely-chosen religion

To be secure in one’s home

To think freely."

Inalienable Rights - Definition, Examples, Cases (legaldictionary.net)

The courts decide what constitute reasonable limits, not governments. They also decide what rights are inalienable. Rights are a human invention that don't exist in nature.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Aristides

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Rights are a human invention that don't exist in nature

Only if you are a Fascist, Communist kind of atheist.  That is why you think humans don't have rights.  You think humans can be treated by governments any way they wish like in authoritarian countries.  Rights are God-given.  God created man with certain inalienable rights.  The American Constitution is better than Canada's and recognizes that fact.  Almost anyone in western countries would disagree with you.  Where did you come from?  

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

What specifically can they do in the USA that you cannot do here that is related to rights?  

Many things that in Canada might fall into question by the authorities.  

Freedom of speech is one example.  Less in Canada.  

Right to own a gun for self-defence is not permitted in Canada.  Yet criminals with illegal guns is widespread in Canadian cities.

Defending yourself from an intruder in your home more likely to be questioned in Canada.

Edited February 22, 2023 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

Just now, blackbird said:

Freedom of speech is one example.  Less in Canada. 

Not very specific.  What can’t you say in Canada?

 

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Right to own a gun for self-defence is not permitted in Canada.

Canada has no right to own guns, but neither do any other western democratic nations.   And we can see from the statistics that we are all safer for it.  
 

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Defending yourself from an intruder in your home more likely to be questioned in Canada.

And yet, we’re a much safer country.  

 Your 3rd example even admits, in a roundabout way, that Canadians can defend themselves in their homes because you say “more likely to be questioned”. 

So the rights you’re concerned about that we don’t have, 2 of the 3 examples are the fact that you’d like to own more guns and shoot more people.

Not the Canada I would prefer.  

[blackbird]

13 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Not very specific.  What can’t you say in Canada?

 

Canada has no right to own guns, but neither do any other western democratic nations.   And we can see from the statistics that we are all safer for it.  
 

And yet, we’re a much safer country.  

 Your 3rd example even admits, in a roundabout way, that Canadians can defend themselves in their homes because you say “more likely to be questioned”. 

So the rights you’re concerned about that we don’t have, 2 of the 3 examples are the fact that you’d like to own more guns and shoot more people.

Not the Canada I would prefer.  

Parents and families in Canada who believe in the Bible have zero rights in public schools.  The children are indoctrinated with sexual orientation and gender identity ideology.  Kids can decide to transition and school can keep it secret from parents.  Children can get drugs to supposedly aid in transitioning.  Another violation of human rights.  

There are violations of the right to free speech which I won't get into on here.  

Do you think a person should have the right to shoot an intruder in self defence of himself and his family?

Also teaching kids leftism ideology in schools is a violation of rights.  Jagmeet Singh has been known to go to public schools to visit kids.  Another violation of rights.

Edited February 22, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

17 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Canada has no right to own guns,

That is false.  People can own long guns in Canada if they take a course, pass the test, and get a permit.

Criminals have lots of guns and they are brought in from the U.S. usually.

[TreeBeard]

Just now, blackbird said:

That is false.  People can own long guns in Canada if they take a course, pass the test, and get a permit.

I didn’t say people aren’t allowed to own guns, I said it wasn’t a RIGHT to own a gun. You understand that rights are defined in the Charter?  
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-12.html

Where in the Charter is the right to own a gun?   I linked the Charter above so you don’t have to search for it. 
 

[TreeBeard]

This is just a nutty diatribe that has nothing to do with what freedoms Americans have that Canadians don’t, but I just quoted one part to try and focus on, and I’ll just pretend that you didn’t just completely change the topic.  

 

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Kids can decide to transition and school can keep it secret from parents.  Children can get drugs to supposedly aid in transitioning.  Another violation of human rights.  

So, kids can get transition drugs and the school will keep it a secret from the parents….  

Little Johnny shows up home from school one day and Johnny is now Jenny?  And the parents didn’t notice???    
 

These are some magical gender-bending drugs!!   
 

A couple issues with your bat-shit crazy anecdote:

The school doesn’t give out drugs.

Prescriptions are not given to children without parental consent  

There are no magical transition drugs that work so fast that a parent won’t notice.

 

 

[blackbird]

29 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I didn’t say people aren’t allowed to own guns, I said it wasn’t a RIGHT to own a gun. You understand that rights are defined in the Charter?  
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-12.html

Where in the Charter is the right to own a gun?   I linked the Charter above so you don’t have to search for it. 
 

It is far more complex than you think. There are rights that are based on historic precedents, law cases and many other documents.  The right to own long guns is a right entrenched in history and precedent.  The 1982 Charter of Rights is not the last word on rights either as you seem to think.  Just because a right is not specifically stated does not mean it does not exist. 

Leftist ideology wants you think rights don't exist unless it is spelled out in the Charter but that is false.

Edited February 22, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

So the rights you’re concerned about that we don’t have

I shouldn't have to write a book to tell you there are many areas where people are denied rights.

Ask the tens of thousands of people on waiting lists for health care procedures.  They are forced to pay for a public health care system, denied private health care in Canada and yet not given timely health care by the public system which is the only system available to many people.

Ask the many business owners in cities in B.C.,  especially Vancouver and Victoria that are being repeatedly vandalized by people who have been constantly arrested and released. What about the business owner's rights?  What about the rights of people who are assaulted every day around Vancouver?

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

I linked the Charter above so you don’t have to search for it. 

As I said, it is far more comlex than you think.  The Charter is not the final word on rights in Canada.   Rights are also based on historical precedent, past legal cases, and how authorities interpret rights.  Often they can be wrong because of such things as that sentence in the Charter/Constitution that says rights are limited.  It doesn't give serious protection to rights.

Our right to an unbiased, publicly funded broadcaster does not exist.  The CBC is just an arm of the Liberal government and completely biased even though the taxpayers pay for the CBC.  That is a violation of rights.  A public broadcaster should be neutral and unbiased.

The CBC and Liberal government are in complete agreement.

"They agree on climate alarmism, the size of government, the need to combat the pandemic with complete lockdowns and vaccine mandates, criminal justice leniency, wide-open immigration, the superiority of the public sector over the private, and Internet censorship, among other topics."

GUNTER: CBC is so cozy with Trudeau government because they have the same interests (msn.com)

Edited February 22, 2023 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The right to own long guns is a right entrenched in history and precedent. 

“The Ontario Court of Appeal upheld the lower court’s ruling that there is no constitutional right to bear arms in Canada.[4]   Montague tried to appeal the case one more time, to the Supreme Court of Canada. On September 16, 2010, the Court announced that it would not hear the appeal. As a result, the ruling that there is no Canadian right to bear arms is settled constitutional law for the foreseeable future. The Supreme Court said in 1993 that “Canadians, unlike Americans do not have a constitutional right to bear arms.”[5] Montague will not have a chance to change the Court’s mind.”
 

https://www.constitutionalstudies.ca/2010/10/ontario-court-confirms-no-right-to-bear-arms-in-canada-supreme-court-will-not-hear-appeal/?print=print

 

You’re wrong again.  Settled law in Canada is that there is no right to own a gun. 

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

“The Ontario Court of Appeal upheld the lower court’s ruling that there is no constitutional right to bear arms in Canada.[4]   Montague tried to appeal the case one more time, to the Supreme Court of Canada. On September 16, 2010, the Court announced that it would not hear the appeal. As a result, the ruling that there is no Canadian right to bear arms is settled constitutional law for the foreseeable future. The Supreme Court said in 1993 that “Canadians, unlike Americans do not have a constitutional right to bear arms.”[5] Montague will not have a chance to change the Court’s mind.”
 

https://www.constitutionalstudies.ca/2010/10/ontario-court-confirms-no-right-to-bear-arms-in-canada-supreme-court-will-not-hear-appeal/?print=print

 

You’re wrong again.  Settled law in Canada is that there is no right to own a gun. 

It only goes to prove my original point that Canadians have far fewer rights than Americans, as you have proven.   Canada is more of an authoritarian state with less freedom than America.  Canada has been run by liberals most of its history, which does not defend personal freedoms.

Edited February 22, 2023 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It only goes to prove my original point that Canadians have far fewer rights than Americans, as you have proven.   Canada is more of an authoritarian state with less freedom than America.  Canada has been run by liberals most of its history, which does not defend personal freedoms.

Back to the subject, eh?  
 

Why do you think US gun rights are better than Canada’s gun laws?   They have more death, more violence and yet, Canadians still own a lot of guns.   Seems like the best of both worlds in Canada. 

[blackbird]

26 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Back to the subject, eh?  
 

Why do you think US gun rights are better than Canada’s gun laws?   They have more death, more violence and yet, Canadians still own a lot of guns.   Seems like the best of both worlds in Canada. 

I don't really oppose a certain amount of gun control.  The problem is the liberals are hypocrites and target the wrong people, legal gun owners.  They are not the criminals.  The liberals don't do enough about the real criminals and illegal guns coming into Canada and they let dangerous offenders out on parole or out on bail all the time.

[TreeBeard]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I don't really oppose a certain amount of gun control.  The problem is the liberals are hypocrites and target the wrong people, legal gun owners.  They are not the criminals.  The liberals don't do enough about the real criminals and illegal guns coming into Canada and they let dangerous offenders out on parole or out on bail all the time.

A post ago, Canada had worse rights.  I ask how Canada’s gun laws are inferior to the US, and now you say you don’t like the Liberals.   ?

Edited February 22, 2023 by TreeBeard

[blackbird]

Just now, TreeBeard said:

A post ago, Canada had worse rights.  I ask why Canada’s gun laws are inferior to the US, and now you say you don’t like the Liberals.   ?

Aside from the gun laws, there are many other examples of why Canada has less rights.  I already gave you some examples.  

[TreeBeard]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Aside from the gun laws, there are many other examples of why Canada has less rights.  I already gave you some examples.  

Guns, shooting people and speech.  
 

I asked what you wanted to say that you couldn’t say in Canada. 
 

Your answer was that kids are getting transition drugs from schools and boys were turning into girls without their parents’ knowledge.  
Do you really think that’s true?

[blackbird]

9 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Guns, shooting people and speech.  
 

I asked what you wanted to say that you couldn’t say in Canada. 
 

Your answer was that kids are getting transition drugs from schools and boys were turning into girls without their parents’ knowledge.  
Do you really think that’s true?

"Ontario school trustee barred from meetings after questioning gender transition policy

Linda Stone was censured by the Durham District School Board for questioning their policy of coordinating the gender transition of students without parental consent"

"An Ontario school trustee has been barred from attending board meetings in part because she publicly questioned the district’s stated policy of accommodating a student’s decision to switch genders while keeping it a secret from their parents."

This school trustee's freedom of speech was blocked by the school board as well.

Ontario school trustee barred after questioning trans policy | National Post

There was a case in B.C. which went to court.  The mother supported the daughter who was transitioning to a boy and the father opposed it and opposed any kind of medical treatments to support transitioning.  The judge ruled against the Father and imposed a silence order on him so he could not speak about it on social media or publicly.

The father's rights as a parent were denied and also his freedom of speech taken away.

Edited February 22, 2023 by blackbird