What has happened to the Democratic Party?

[Infidel Dog]

19 hours ago, Mako said:

The neocons and many Republicans have been hawks (or chicken hawks).

Yes and the neocons were originally Liberals. People sometimes forget.

[reason10]

15 hours ago, robosmith said:

So MANY ^LIES, so little time.... LMAO

Democrats represent me and I've had a job and paid taxes for most of my life.

And you STILL HAVE NO EVIDENCE of the "fraud" you and Trump CLAIM.

When you have NO EVIDENCE of FRAUD, ALL YOU HAVE is the CERTIFIED VOTE COUNT.

And your fantasies notwithstanding, that means JOE WAS ELECTED. LMAO

All LIES. And I can accomplish putting you in your place in little time.

You are a LIAR.

Joe was NOT elected.

[Infidel Dog]

It's not necessary to prove the 2020 election was fraudulent to offer overwhelming evidence it was rigged.

Absolute proof of fraud may not even be possible since the Progressives have hijacked legislative structure.

But yeah, Zuckerbucks, pandemic lawfare changing election law, collusion between government and social media etc.

It was rigged.

Was it also fraudulent. Probably, but the courts will never allow that to be proven. See the Arizona mid-terms for support of that one.

That one's not over yet but it's doubtful the cheated candidates of Arizona will ever get a fair trial.

 

[Mako]

12 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Yes, as part of a NATO operation at the behest of the United Nations. What is your problem with the US helping remove Gaddafi or Hitler? We would hope that a Republican President would have acted similarly, lending assistance to the UN and NATO.

So you are on record supporting African slavery.

https://blackagendareport.com/how-barack-obama-and-hillary-clinton-contributed-libyas-slavery-crisis

[Mako]

22 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Yes, the GOP team Bush - Rumsfeld - Cheney really was out there. 

The 3 magic men: 

the last one a coward too, ran away from the war while others did their time.

---> And Cheney did not even have the decency to invite a real man who served his own country, General Powell to dinner, ever, not once while they worked together according to a PBS documentary I once saw, citing a biography. 

Shows you in life, sometimes you end up being governed by such characters. One ends up being governed by amateurs in their profession. 

Never forget the Israel lobby nor all the Democrats who supported Bush and voted for war (Hillary, Kerry, Schumer, Feinstein, Biden).

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mako

[Mako]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

It's not necessary to prove the 2020 election was fraudulent to offer overwhelming evidence it was rigged.

Absolute proof of fraud may not even be possible since the Progressives have hijacked legislative structure.

But yeah, Zuckerbucks, pandemic lawfare changing election law, collusion between government and social media etc.

It was rigged.

Was it also fraudulent. Probably, but the courts will never allow that to be proven. See the Arizona mid-terms for support of that one.

That one's not over yet but it's doubtful the cheated candidates of Arizona will ever get a fair trial.

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/medias-hiding-of-hunter-biden-scandal-robbed-trump-of-clear-win-poll

https://www.dailywire.com/news/reminder-these-50-intelligence-officers-claimed-without-evidence-that-new-york-posts-hunter-biden-story-was-russian-disinformation

The Biden administration serves genocidal Communist dictators.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mako

[Hodad]

16 hours ago, Mako said:

Of course the killing was deliberate!

Actually the distinction you are trying to make is trivial and desperate.

Did the US bomb Libya?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/22/libya-and-the-myth-of-humanitarian-intervention/

Why do you feel Mearsheimer is wrong?

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/05/05/taking-aim-at-ukraine-how-john-mearsheimer-and-stephen-cohen-challenged-the-dominant-narrative/

By your “logic” the Republicans could be Pure Evil and the Democrats Pure Evil - .00001 and you would support them. That is a reprehensible position.

The better plan would be to work to reform the Democrats, take the party away from the perverted plutocrats.

Nobody planned to kill children. Bombing is not an invasion. Voting for war and voting to empower the president to take military action are not the same thing. Do words just not matter to you?

Mearsheimer is providing a heterodox analysis of events, so yes, most people will think he is wrong. Specifically, as has been discussed here ad nauseum, he (and others with this perspective) must take as a foundational premise the notion that sovereign states near Russia are not actually sovereign, they have no self governance and are indeed vassal states. That's crap. Pure crap. It's embracing the bully's veto. Of course Ukraine wanted to join a defensive alliance to protect itself from an aggressive Russia. And of course that annoyed Russia, because Putin is a classic bully. But Ukraine trying to form alliances to prevent Russian invasion is NOT a legitimate provocation for Russian invasion. It's like a domestic violence victim getting hit because they ask for protection from being hit. -- Mearsheimer would would say that's provocation and it's the victim's fault. It's crap.

And yes, it is logical to choose the better of two options. If that bullet list represents your areas of interest though, it's not even a close contest. 

You don't like civilian casualties from drone strikes? Great, no one does. The Obama administration used drone strikes and reported civilian casualties. You don't like that. Fine. Trump tripled the rate of drone strikes and adopted an official policy of NOT reporting casualties. 

You don't like that the Obama administration, as part of an international coalition, provided air support for the rebels in Libya. Well, okay, I guess. But is that really a contrast to the multiple decades in multiple wars from the Bush admin? 

And on and on. 

It's fine if you don't like those things--most people are in agreement that things that go wrong/badly are undesirable. A mote is not a plank, and if I have to choose one, I'm picking the mote every time.

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, Mako said:

So you are on record supporting African slavery.

https://blackagendareport.com/how-barack-obama-and-hillary-clinton-contributed-libyas-slavery-crisis

That statement is as incorrect as you saying a patriot American who supported the American revolution as being pro Stalin, because the American revolution led to the Russian Revolution and Joe Stalin and the Holodomor. You can put me on record as being opposed to any kind of slavery. Are you baiting us?

Edited February 14, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[Queenmandy85]

4 hours ago, reason10 said:

All LIES. And I can accomplish putting you in your place in little time.

You are a LIAR.

Joe was NOT elected.

I won't call you a liar.

Rather, you are mis-informed. The Electoral College voted 306 votes for Vice President Biden and 232 votes for President Trump.  

I am surprised you do not know these things, given you say you were educated in Florida.

[reason10]

17 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I won't call you a liar.

Rather, you are mis-informed. The Electoral College voted 306 votes for Vice President Biden and 232 votes for President Trump.  

I am surprised you do not know these things, given you say you were educated in Florida.

The Electoral College got those numbers from fraudulent votes being cast.

Every Florida fourth grader understands the Electoral College.

And it was YOUR side of the aisle who claimed George W. Bush did not defeat Algore, so you have ZERO room to talk.

The counting was STOPPED on election night, when Trump was a landslide ahead. That's when the voter fraud took place.

[Mako]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

Nobody planned to kill children. Bombing is not an invasion. Voting for war and voting to empower the president to take military action are not the same thing. Do words just not matter to you?

Mearsheimer is providing a heterodox analysis of events, so yes, most people will think he is wrong. Specifically, as has been discussed here ad nauseum, he (and others with this perspective) must take as a foundational premise the notion that sovereign states near Russia are not actually sovereign, they have no self governance and are indeed vassal states. That's crap. Pure crap. It's embracing the bully's veto. Of course Ukraine wanted to join a defensive alliance to protect itself from an aggressive Russia. And of course that annoyed Russia, because Putin is a classic bully. But Ukraine trying to form alliances to prevent Russian invasion is NOT a legitimate provocation for Russian invasion. It's like a domestic violence victim getting hit because they ask for protection from being hit. -- Mearsheimer would would say that's provocation and it's the victim's fault. It's crap.

And yes, it is logical to choose the better of two options. If that bullet list represents your areas of interest though, it's not even a close contest. 

You don't like civilian casualties from drone strikes? Great, no one does. The Obama administration used drone strikes and reported civilian casualties. You don't like that. Fine. Trump tripled the rate of drone strikes and adopted an official policy of NOT reporting casualties. 

You don't like that the Obama administration, as part of an international coalition, provided air support for the rebels in Libya. Well, okay, I guess. But is that really a contrast to the multiple decades in multiple wars from the Bush admin? 

And on and on. 

It's fine if you don't like those things--most people are in agreement that things that go wrong/badly are undesirable. A mote is not a plank, and if I have to choose one, I'm picking the mote every time.

Nobody planned to kill children?! If you drop lots of bombs on civilians I supposed you would be shocked that anyone was hurt. Are you joking with this pathetic attempt to avoid responsibility? Congress could have stopped Bush but they chose not to. 

Regarding Ukraine and realism: There are many bullies around the world. China bullies the Uyghurs, the Saudis bully Yemen, France bullies countries in Africa, Israel bullies Palestinians. Should we arm all of the rebel groups? Should we go back to Afghanistan and protect the Afghanis from the Taliban? I don’t think the U.S. should be the global policeman. We should push for negotiations and peace in Ukraine.

You are ignoring the deaths caused by Bill Clinton in Iraq. You are ignoring the large casualties from the Obama military surge in Afghanistan. You are ignoring the reimposition of African slavery in Libya. You are ignoring the fact that many prominent Democrats supported the war in Iraq. You are ignoring the fact that you and Mitch McConnell and various war profiteers are on the same side regarding the Ukraine War. You are ignoring Zelensky’s enthusiasm for WW III.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-zelensky-blasts-weak-nato-for-refusing-no-fly-zone-amid-russian-invasion/ar-AAUEcaT

A no-fly zone could easily lead to direct NATO-Russia fighting and WW III and hundreds of millions dead.

These are not minor flaws in the Democratic Party we should just cast aside. Why are you an apologist for warmongers and plutocrats?

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mako

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, reason10 said:

All LIES. And I can accomplish putting you in your place in little time.

You are a LIAR.

Joe was NOT elected.

You can tell your LIES here MANY TIMES, and it will change NOTHING.

Like a little kid throwing a tantrum, you're just annoying.

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Yes and the neocons were originally Liberals. People sometimes forget.

To whom do you refer? Famous neo-con William Kristol and his father Irving WERE ALWAYS CONSERVATIVES.

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

It's not necessary to prove the 2020 election was fraudulent to offer overwhelming evidence it was rigged.

How do you rig an election without fraud? AKA, breaking the law.

5 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Absolute proof of fraud may not even be possible since the Progressives have hijacked legislative structure.

But yeah, Zuckerbucks, pandemic lawfare changing election law, collusion between government and social media etc.

It was rigged.

Was it also fraudulent. Probably, but the courts will never allow that to be proven. See the Arizona mid-terms for support of that one.

That one's not over yet but it's doubtful the cheated candidates of Arizona will ever get a fair trial.

 

You  have the conspiracy theory schtick down to a 'T'.

What ELECTION LAWS were broken in your FANTASY?

Things like drop boxes and vote by mail which made it very hard to suppress certain (black) voters? LMAO

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, Mako said:

Never forget the Israel lobby nor all the Democrats who supported Bush and voted for war (Hillary, Kerry, Schumer, Feinstein, Biden).

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

Congress did NOT order the INVASION. That was Bush.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

The Electoral College got those numbers from fraudulent votes being cast.

Every Florida fourth grader understands the Electoral College.

And it was YOUR side of the aisle who claimed George W. Bush did not defeat Algore, so you have ZERO room to talk.

The counting was STOPPED on election night, when Trump was a landslide ahead. That's when the voter fraud took place.

First, there was nor evidence of fraudulent votes sufficient to make any difference in the election. The final arbitrator of such claims is the courts. 

But what the heck do you mean "(my) side of the isle." Are you calling me a yankee? If so, you are insulting Bush-cheney and our other wonderful American Friends. My side resides with all those courageous American Tories who fought and died for their King and country. They gave up everything, save honour. Go wash out your mouth with soap. ??

Edited February 14, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[Hodad]

34 minutes ago, Mako said:

Nobody planned to kill children?! If you drop lots of bombs on civilians I supposed you would be shocked that anyone was hurt. Are you joking with this pathetic attempt to avoid responsibility? Congress could have stopped Bush but they chose not to. 

You are ignoring the deaths caused by Bill Clinton in Iraq. You are ignoring the large casualties from the Obama military surge in Afghanistan. You are ignoring the reimposition of African slavery in Libya. You are ignoring the fact that many prominent Democrats supported the war in Iraq. You are ignoring the fact that you and Mitch McConnell and various war profiteers are on the same side regarding the Ukraine War. You are ignoring Zelensky’s enthusiasm for WW III.

These are not minor flaws in the Democratic Party we should just cast aside. Why are you an apologist for warmongers and plutocrats?

Okay, well enjoy nursing your grievances, both real and imagined. I hope you find a political party that suits your interests and also has enough influence to make change in the world. Keep us updated.

[Mako]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Congress did NOT order the INVASION. That was Bush.

Article I, Section 8 specifically gives Congress the power “to declare War”.

Your desperate attempts to evade responsibility are quite comic.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mako

[Mako]

I thought that everyone realized by now that the War in Afghanistan was a trillion dollar scam, but I guess there are a few dupes still left.

Have people forgotten our corrupt puppet government over there lasted about 15 minutes? All those years and all those casualties and nothing to show for it. The “nation building” was a fraud.

Obama was gung ho for the war.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-nine-surges-of-obamas-war/

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mako

[robosmith]

44 minutes ago, Mako said:

Article I, Section 8 specifically gives Congress the power “to declare War”.

Your desperate attempts to evade responsibility are quite comic.

The Congress has NOT declared war since WWII. You're desperately ignoring the FACTS to serve YOUR AGENDA.

Quote

Congress approved its last formal declaration of war during World War II.

 

[Mako]

6 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The Congress has NOT declared war since WWII. You're desperately ignoring the FACTS to serve YOUR AGENDA.

 

Please try to understand. The president can not fight a war without authorization from Congress. 

[robosmith]

7 minutes ago, Mako said:

Please try to understand. The president can not fight a war without authorization from Congress. 

Congress has 535 members. Each member only contributes 1/268th of the required votes.

In this case, they authorized Bush to MAKE THE DECISION; so his vote was the ONLY ONE that was SOLELY responsible.

Expecting Congress members to correctly analyze the intelligence is a BIG STRETCH.

Congress' mistake was TRUSTING BUSH to do the right thing. ?

[Queenmandy85]

Mako, you need to relax. You seem to be agitated by this but it is only politics. Did life change with the result of the Super Bowl? Did the course of human events go off course because the Roughriders didn't win the Grey Cup? Politics is a sport, a contest. It doesn't really matter who wins. It is how you play the game that counts. Otherwise, it isn't fun.

[Mako]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

Congress has 535 members. Each member only contributes 1/268th of the required votes.

In this case, they authorized Bush to MAKE THE DECISION; so his vote was the ONLY ONE that was SOLELY responsible.

Expecting Congress members to correctly analyze the intelligence is a BIG STRETCH.

Congress' mistake was TRUSTING BUSH to do the right thing. ?

When did you decide it was your life’s work to serve as a lame apologist for warmongers?

Congress can blame Bush, who can blame the Israelis, etc.

Let’s face it, they all deserve blame.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/12/05/israel-shares-blame-on-iraq-intelligence-report-says/fa34cc5e-8a18-4faa-9615-19a899f99fda/

Edited February 15, 2023 by Mako

[robosmith]

5 hours ago, Mako said:

When did you decide it was your life’s work to serve as a lame apologist for warmongers?

Congress was NOT SELLING the Iraq war, that was Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld.

5 hours ago, Mako said:

Congress can blame Bush, who can blame the Israelis, etc.

Bush never tried to blame Israelis. The faulty intelligence came from Curveball. Question is, how much was he paid by Bush et al?

5 hours ago, Mako said:

Let’s face it, they all deserve blame.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/12/05/israel-shares-blame-on-iraq-intelligence-report-says/fa34cc5e-8a18-4faa-9615-19a899f99fda/

It was very clear that Bush & Cheney were looking for ANY and EVERY possible reason to invade Iraq, cause the core reason was recovering US petroleum investments in Iraq that were nationalized by Hussein.