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Some frustrated farmers, voice their concerns about milk in todays market... It does not make sense, one of the few Mad MAX election promise to dismantle our dairy and cheese industry...the Farmers making only 90 cents per liter...out of a 7 dollar liter of milk...

 

 

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This guy is a beauty.  I want to be his friend. The dairy board is retarded and should have been dismantled decades ago.  

One of the strongest lobbies in Canada is the dairy lobby.  This is something real that people should be complaining and talking about.  

 

 

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10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

This guy is a beauty.  I want to be his friend. The dairy board is retarded and should have been dismantled decades ago.  

One of the strongest lobbies in Canada is the dairy lobby.  This is something real that people should be complaining and talking about.

It's lobbying that needs to be talked about.

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Dairy farmers where I live are losing money or barely braking even. Increases in the cost of feed, fertilizer, machinery and other services have far outpaced what they are getting for their milk. A tractor that cost 120K ten years ago is now over 300K and they can't afford to replace old machinery. Families that have been in the industry for generations are now calling it quits and it is a business that no one other  than large corps can afford to get into.

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5 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's lobbying that needs to be talked about.

It seems we do a lot of talking, it is what we do best, whats need is for someone to just end it... we live in a country supported by free enterprise, why is the dairy industry any different... the cartel just makes it easier for large dairy companies to take over from the small guy...and paying the government for a quota every year is not free enterprise thats what the mafia does...I'd like to see the break down of who is getting what out a a 7 dollar a liter of milk...

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$7 a litre! Where do you live Nunavut?

It's $2.39 a litre here and if the farmers are getting 90c that's not bad. The problem is wastage of overproduction, perhaps if cheese makers weren't charging like the colour of cheddar comes from mixing in gold dust we coould solve some of it.

Or go back to buying it at a lower price. powdering it and giving it away as foreign aid.

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of all the crazy collectivist policies in Canada

the Dairy Cartel might be the least of my concerns

or perhaps it is the Maple Syrup cartel which is the least of my concerns

for at this threshold of a totalitarian Canadian government

which is want to crush peaceful protests with main battle tanks

I pine for those salad days

when the Dairy Cartel was the limits of tyranny in Canada

 

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4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It seems we do a lot of talking, it is what we do best, whats need is for someone to just end it... we live in a country supported by free enterprise, why is the dairy industry any different... the cartel just makes it easier for large dairy companies to take over from the small guy...and paying the government for a quota every year is not free enterprise thats what the mafia does...I'd like to see the break down of who is getting what out a a 7 dollar a liter of milk...

You can't stop lobbying and you shouldn't try. Everyone has the right to do so.

It's simply the expectation you can lobby and be lobbied in secrecy that needs to change, starting with the addition of a principle and a few other changes to the existing Lobbying Act.

Just about every Canadian has a story to tell in which lobbying somehow throws a wrench in their works.  Canadians can't possibly be expected to understand every sectors issues but most everyone can get their heads around and focus on the single most common issue which is lobbying.

Just talk about lobbying, the rest will sort itself out in due and probably short order. 

Edited by eyeball
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5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It seems we do a lot of talking, it is what we do best, whats need is for someone to just end it... we live in a country supported by free enterprise, why is the dairy industry any different... the cartel just makes it easier for large dairy companies to take over from the small guy...and paying the government for a quota every year is not free enterprise thats what the mafia does...I'd like to see the break down of who is getting what out a a 7 dollar a liter of milk...

They don't pay for quota every year, once they buy it, they own it. Some even lease it out to other farmers. It's a commodity on its own.

Quota only means they get a guaranteed price for the milk the have quota to produce. If they can't produce at that price, they go broke. 

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46 minutes ago, Aristides said:

They don't pay for quota every year, once they buy it, they own it. Some even lease it out to other farmers. It's a commodity on its own.

Quota only means they get a guaranteed price for the milk the have quota to produce. If they can't produce at that price, they go broke. 

I don't know the dairy quota system particulars but if it's transferable it just winds up getting concentrated into fewer hands.  And you can bet the largest quota holders who do most of the lobbying do so to primarily to maintain whatever trend increases their access to more quota and wealth.

The last time I fished halibut I got paid .15 per lb. The quota owner got paid 3.85.  He sat on his ass at home while I put in 20 hour days fishing 20 miles off shore.  Quotas are inherently dodgy.

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13 hours ago, Aristides said:

They don't pay for quota every year, once they buy it, they own it. Some even lease it out to other farmers. It's a commodity on its own.

Quota only means they get a guaranteed price for the milk the have quota to produce. If they can't produce at that price, they go broke. 

Ok so they purchase the quota once and it is theirs.  One question why does this farmer simply not buy more quota, rather than pour milk down the drain. I ask becasue this one farmer is not the only farmer in this pickle...

Purchasing a quota off the government is not exactly what the free market had in mind was it. It's a win win for the government not so much for the farmer. It benefits the large operators better. Which is why i asked out of a 7 dollar liter of milk if the farmer is only getting 90 cents of that who is making the other 6.10 dollars.

Yes the quota system protects from price fluxes in the market, and ensuring the market is not saturated with product.. but it does nothing for small farms and protecting them from well crises like the Ukraine war and fuel prices or inflation, or supply issues... it would be a practice that would protect the large industrial farms, rather than the little guys. Grant you i am no expert, but from what I've read so far, it seems to lean that way.

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19 hours ago, herbie said:

$7 a litre! Where do you live Nunavut?

It's $2.39 a litre here and if the farmers are getting 90c that's not bad. The problem is wastage of overproduction, perhaps if cheese makers weren't charging like the colour of cheddar comes from mixing in gold dust we coould solve some of it.

Or go back to buying it at a lower price. powdering it and giving it away as foreign aid.

That price came from the guy in the video, he also states out of his 90 cents he pays for transport and other processes that the milk goes through. 

There would not be wastage in over production if there was no quota, it all could be sold in the free market...there is no quotas on meat, vegs, cars, other products so why milk...You do know they have to milk their cows regardless if the quota is meet or not right...

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15 hours ago, eyeball said:

You can't stop lobbying and you shouldn't try. Everyone has the right to do so.

It's simply the expectation you can lobby and be lobbied in secrecy that needs to change, starting with the addition of a principle and a few other changes to the existing Lobbying Act.

Just about every Canadian has a story to tell in which lobbying somehow throws a wrench in their works.  Canadians can't possibly be expected to understand every sectors issues but most everyone can get their heads around and focus on the single most common issue which is lobbying.

Just talk about lobbying, the rest will sort itself out in due and probably short order. 

Not end the lobbing, but rather the dairy cartel, break it up, dispose of it, give it all back to the free market.

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11 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Ok so they purchase the quota once and it is theirs.  One question why does this farmer simply not buy more quota, rather than pour milk down the drain. I ask becasue this one farmer is not the only farmer in this pickle...

Purchasing a quota off the government is not exactly what the free market had in mind was it. It's a win win for the government not so much for the farmer. It benefits the large operators better. Which is why i asked out of a 7 dollar liter of milk if the farmer is only getting 90 cents of that who is making the other 6.10 dollars.

Yes the quota system protects from price fluxes in the market, and ensuring the market is not saturated with product.. but it does nothing for small farms and protecting them from well crises like the Ukraine war and fuel prices or inflation, or supply issues... it would be a practice that would protect the large industrial farms, rather than the little guys. Grant you i am no expert, but from what I've read so far, it seems to lean that way.

Because the amount of quota is restricted, you just can't go out and buy more you have to find some that is for sale and because it is limited, it is expensive. Farmers have millions invested in quota and it can be a large part of the debt load they are carrying.

I don't know who is paying $7 a litre. Even with the 8.1% increase farmers just got the price of a 4 litre jug of  milk is still less than $6 in most places although the Maritimes seems a bit higher.

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8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Not end the lobbing, but rather the dairy cartel, break it up, dispose of it, give it all back to the free market.

Then you will have to reimburse farmers for what they paid for their quota, otherwise you will have farmers carrying huge debt for quota they bought in good faith so they could do business having to compete with people who have paid and owe nothing.

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The logic behind the dairy board is to prevent larger jurisdictions with larger economies of scale from dumping on our domestic producers and forcing them out of business or into their fold.  

What often starts as a reasonable goal, however, is screwed into a self-serving grift that does more harm than good.  There are other ways we can protect our domestic farmers without having to take it in the ass at the grocery store, or force them to dump surpluses into the earth.  

Edited by Moonbox
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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

The logic behind the dairy board is to prevent larger jurisdictions with larger economies of scale from dumping on our domestic producers and forcing them out of business or into their fold.  

What often starts as a reasonable goal, however, is screwed into a self-serving grift that does more harm than good.  There are other ways we can protect our domestic farmers without having to take it in the ass at the grocery store, or force them to dump surpluses into the earth.  

Over production will get dumped whether there is regulation or not. Giving away part of our market to subsidized American farmers hasn't helped either.

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If you're producing more than your quota, you're not running things right are you? It's not the quota to blame. Specially in a market where you have no way to unload it.

Whenwe lived in the Fraser Valley everyone knew where to go and when to get chickens and eggs that were over quota. Even the odd place to get your illegal whole milk...

The stereotypical "free market" response just works so well on other things in the supermarket... like a dollar more for everything each week and BS media releases claiming the almost weekly price increases as 'yearly inflation figures". Fix it! You don't just tear shit down and just repeat propaganda as a solution.

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7 minutes ago, herbie said:

If you're producing more than your quota, you're not running things right are you? It's not the quota to blame. Specially in a market where you have no way to unload it.

Whenwe lived in the Fraser Valley everyone knew where to go and when to get chickens and eggs that were over quota. Even the odd place to get your illegal whole milk...

The stereotypical "free market" response just works so well on other things in the supermarket... like a dollar more for everything each week and BS media releases claiming the almost weekly price increases as 'yearly inflation figures". Fix it! You don't just tear shit down and just repeat propaganda as a solution.

A dairy farm isn't a factory, cows aren't machines you can just turn on and off as the need arises. You buy quota but you don't have enough cows to produce the milk, what good is it? Meanwhile you are spending a lot of money taking care of animals that aren't producing anything. It takes time to build a herd. You buy cows on the hope of getting more quota you have to do something with the milk until you get it. It's a chicken or egg situation for farmers.

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8 hours ago, Aristides said:

Because the amount of quota is restricted, you just can't go out and buy more you have to find some that is for sale and because it is limited, it is expensive. Farmers have millions invested in quota and it can be a large part of the debt load they are carrying.

I don't know who is paying $7 a litre. Even with the 8.1% increase farmers just got the price of a 4 litre jug of  milk is still less than $6 in most places although the Maritimes seems a bit higher.

I think someone has already worked out the math 3.5 billion to pay back quotas, that was quoted when MAd max made is run, it seems today we can spend 3.5 in a blink of an eye...hand back what they paid out, return dairy back to the free market...

Not sure who's price he is quoting or where, but he does bring up some very valid points, it seems not only is the price inflated at the customer  level but it is also hurting farmers , keeping huge debts as you mentioned, surplus milk being wasted, and i'm sure there is more points that could be brought forward. 

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38 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I think someone has already worked out the math 3.5 billion to pay back quotas, that was quoted when MAd max made is run, it seems today we can spend 3.5 in a blink of an eye...hand back what they paid out, return dairy back to the free market...

Not sure who's price he is quoting or where, but he does bring up some very valid points, it seems not only is the price inflated at the customer  level but it is also hurting farmers , keeping huge debts as you mentioned, surplus milk being wasted, and i'm sure there is more points that could be brought forward. 

Surplus will be wasted anyway. Milk has a shelf life and if there is no market, it will dumped. Surpluses will also depress prices and make things even more difficult for farmers. I don't know what an ideal solution is but supply management was initiated in order to prevent boom bust cycles and waste. The idea is also to have the consumer pay the true cost of the product, not a subsidized cost. in 2020 US farm subsidies hit 37 billion USD.

 

https://www.taxpayer.net/agriculture/usda-farm-subsidies-at-highest-level-in-20-years/

Edited by Aristides
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1 minute ago, Aristides said:

Surplus will be wasted anyway. Milk has a shelf life and if there is no market, it will dumped. Surpluses will also depress prices and make things even more difficult for farmers. I don't know what an ideal solution is but supply management was initiated in order to prevent boom bust cycles and waste..

Thats how free market works, it has boom or bust cycles...and those that can not afford to play the game will drop out, and I'm sure there is someone out there that could use the milk...keeping the industry alive by jacking up consumers prices is not really a good business plan...and the government has a hard time controlling bathroom privilege's let alone an entire industry, i mean does anyone trust the government to run anything ask eyeball what they did to his fishing industry...

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6 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Thats how free market works, it has boom or bust cycles...and those that can not afford to play the game will drop out, and I'm sure there is someone out there that could use the milk...keeping the industry alive by jacking up consumers prices is not really a good business plan...and the government has a hard time controlling bathroom privilege's let alone an entire industry, i mean does anyone trust the government to run anything ask eyeball what they did to his fishing industry...

Except animals are not machines, you can't just shut them down, throw a tarp over them and then fire them back up in 6 months. They will eat the farmer out of house and home so he will have to get rid of them. You talk about free markets but US farm subsidies amounted to 37.2 billion USD in 2021. Supply management was intended to remove those boom bust cycles and have the consumer pay the actual cost of the product not a subsidized cost.

 

https://www.taxpayer.net/agriculture/usda-farm-subsidies-at-highest-level-in-20-years/

 

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23 hours ago, herbie said:

If you're producing more than your quota, you're not running things right are you? It's not the quota to blame. Specially in a market where you have no way to unload it.

The quota is the problem.  It’s a defecto cinderblock tied to good farmers.  It stops progress.  It stops improvement and it artificially keeps prices higher than they need to be. 
 

Who does it help?  Not the average Canadian.  

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