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Proportional Representation


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2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

These are the people we want to vote? 

What a great example, couldn't refrain from comment though not much chance you'd get it (this is only based on the factual experience to date no offense, honest).

So you get to chose one in 20 potato, average size of 3 cm with minimal (0.1 cm) variation.

A citizen comes by and picks one, the nearest or by some other random factor (like some vague association with a potato song, no, news)

You turn around and shout see, told ya! And you want them to vote?

The choice matters (but you probably won't get it, again)

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"With PR, there is even less local control, and candidates are even more tied to party leaders while ridings have even less attachment to their local candidates."

That's why in BC our initiatives were for STV which keeps ties to local representation and avoids the guaranteed inclusion of the fringes. Hell, does anyone want 3 or 4 sitting Rhino Party members? We would've had that already.

To paraphrase Churchill. what we have is not perfect but no one's come up with a better one. That's why I proposed making the GG officially elected as Head of State and nothing else. The King or Queen could still be the King or Queen of Canada. But even that minimal change is impossible.

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2 hours ago, myata said:

Even simpler: the outcome of a selection cannot be better than the choice. You need a better choice to produce better outcomes. What is so difficult here?

How do you get a better choice? You have to make the position attractive to better people. Rather than sending hate mail and death threats to the people who serve in government, show them some respect. After all, you and I get to participate in the selection process. If the person we choose is not up to the standards we expect, that is on us. If we want better, choose someone better. We get the governments we deserve.

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1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You have to make the position attractive to better people

Go to ---ck your "better people". We already have "the greatest people" at a double (at the very least) cost to anywhere developed on the planet and look, the army, the health, the rcmp, the taxes all in the greatest state ever and look where it's all heading too.

Just give me the choice to choose who I want to not the picture you show in the window, I couldn't care less how great it looks (to you). No, nothing less, just forget it.

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Rather than sending hate mail and

You do that? I'm impressed

Edited by myata
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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

you're just not "better people".

Well sure wasn't that what it was all about from Day one? Could have just said "For better people (and by them)". Even write in that motto, matter closed.

"Nam melius populus"

Edited by myata
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Peasant people do their peasant stuff, pay taxes (as set by the wise people, see further); don't ask many questions and stay merry and happy. Go on happy sleigh rides graciously gifted to them by other (better) people.

And the better, wise people rule over them, well and wisely (as they themselves judge and who else, really?). A modern idyll.

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On 1/27/2023 at 1:12 AM, myata said:

Peasant people do their peasant stuff, pay taxes (as set by the wise people, see further); don't ask many questions and stay merry and happy. Go on happy sleigh rides graciously gifted to them by other (better) people.

And the better, wise people rule over them, well and wisely (as they themselves judge and who else, really?). A modern idyll.

Do you have a problem with that?  Would you prefer someone of less mental or intellectual capacity, who has little idea of how to do their job? When you are hiring an employee, would you not consider it a good idea to pay for superior ability, intellect and integrity?

When the commons elect a person, they invariably regret their choice. That is why they end up labling the people they choose as corrupt, thieving liars, and if the person is female, they throw in a lot of vile mysoginist abuse as well. A politician is only good until they are elected and then they are reviled by the voters who elected them.

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6 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Aren't some of the constituencies, or ridings as you call them in Canada, about the size of a European country while others are the size of just a couple of easily walkable blocks in Toronto and Montreal?

Yes. The size of a riding is based on population. We have re-distrubution every so often to adjust it.

At present, the proportions of support for political choices is reflected by the number of seats held by the parties. While the Liberal party is in a minority position, the collection of progressive parties make up a majority. 

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4 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Aren't some of the constituencies, or ridings as you call them in Canada, about the size of a European country while others are the size of just a couple of easily walkable blocks in Toronto and Montreal?

Yes, due to history and the disparities in population density there are big differences in ridings. In remote parts of the country, ridings can cover thousands of sq km but have relatively few people. Because provinces entered confederation over a period of decades, they have more ridings than their populations warrant. A good example is Prince Edward Island which is our smallest province. It has about the same population as the BC city I live in but has 4 seats in parliament to my city's one seat. When it entered Confederation PEI had triple the population of BC, now it has 1/30th the population. This disparity is greatest in Canada's two most western provinces, BC and Alberta because they have experienced the greatest proportional growth since they entered Confederation. The number of seats they have been allocated has increased but not kept up with the growth in population. .

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17 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

the proportions of support for political choices is reflected by the number of seats held by the parties held by the parties.

A pretty poster to be seen from some (considerable) distance away. The reality close by is quite different though. Like more or less, the opposite ;)

In the last few elections for example, the party (only two are allowed -m.) that lost the popular vote ruled in majority or like (meaning, no effective checks or any at all -m.). Sounds just like your democracy, right?

 

Edited by myata
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21 minutes ago, myata said:

In the last few elections for example, the party (only two are allowed -m.) that lost the popular vote ruled in majority or like (meaning, no effective checks or any at all -m.). Sounds just like your democracy, right?

 

I don't know what you mean by "only two are allowed?" There are five parties with members in the H of C. 

I don't no what you mean by my democracy? You are not listening. I am a Monarchist. I believe that God is a better, more informed voter, than you or me.

We do not have many people with enough education and experience to qualify them to vote wisely. You have not voiced any support for anyone you deem to be a good politician. The voters turned on  Prime Ministers John Diefenbaker, Pierre Trudeau, Joe Clark, John Turner, Brian Mulroney, Kim Campbell, Stephen Harper, and our current Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. All were the golden boys / girls until they got into the job. Then instantly, they were the enemies of the state. What is the point of electing people when we are going to call the crooks. Mr. Myata is good at pointing out flaws but when it comes time to put forward a positive candidate or idea, it's crickets. (No offence. ?)

Edited by Queenmandy85
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49 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

There are five parties with members in the H of C. 

Joke "parties" and not "parties", as already explained. Confusion doesn't help.

49 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You have not voiced any support for anyone you deem to be a good politician.

Yes you are correct and I can't but admit it. I have not. And I will not, as a matter of conscious decision and principle, until I have modern, grown up democracy with a free choice of free citizens. Why would I even bother otherwise... why would anyone? Beats me.

Edited by myata
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11 minutes ago, myata said:

Why would I even bother otherwise... why would anyone? Beats me.

Because politics are fun. It is our national sport. ?? Not nearly as much fun as skiing, of course, but it sure beats any other sport, with the possible exception of football.

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1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

We do not have many people with enough education and experience to qualify them to vote wisely.

How would you feel about requiring a permit to vote based on an issues comprehension test?

Perhaps there's too much at stake to leave our governance up to the amount of chance baked into campaigns and elections.

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1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

I am a knight of the status quo here haha

Nope. Nothing original here. When you lived a few generations in far backwater environments with no incentives to change and adapt, you would see even a minor (then: microscopic) change as a dangerous and unnecessary undertaking A FEAT. And huge scary entirely unnecessary risk. You did nothing and it took you all the way here, right? Easy. And the rest, after reaching that state is trivial: a change is a disaster; disasters to be avoided; ergo any change is anathema. Q.E.D.

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