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Is Trudeau's "just transition" going to be a national disaster?


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On 1/20/2023 at 6:32 PM, herbie said:

Is Trudeau's "just transition" going to be a national disaster?

So absolutely no discussion on how, why or if? Only the usual climate denier babble, Trudeau hate and berating over what TV station people should watch?

Grow up FFS

 

What is there to discuss, Liberals record says it all 3 attempts and 3 failures, and we are embarking on the 4 th try, when is the left going to let it go, it is time to try something else...But here is the rub, the left has alrerady made up it's mind on conservative climate policy, and we have not even try it out , just the very words of Conservative climate policy gives you warts on your johnston....

You guys have had 3 trys , it is time to move out of the way...and you wonder why no one wants to discuss it... becasue it is going to fail... wait until spring and we will see what the price of fuel is and you tell me if your going to continue to support this clown show...

The fact of opening up our foissil fuel sector, getting our LP over seas and taking off coal fire plants is a winning short term strategy, getting BC to stop exporting coal a winning strategy, replacing our coal fire plants and finish the job we started, replacing our diesel plants with LP plants or Nuke plants, replacing our northern fossil fuel plants with SMR is winning strategy. and one day that miracle everyone is waiting for will appear and replace it all....Turning off the taps now, sounds like that crazy green party policy... sure would be an interesting winter though..

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1 hour ago, herbie said:

If you have ever looked at any media that isn't a whiney anti-climate rag, you probably don't know that ALL the auto manufacturers are already converting their main production to EVs and hybrids. Major countries and US states already have these target deadlines so if you want a legitimate anti-Trudeau rant you should be criticizing him for being so late to the game.

Why is it you global warming types are always so arrogant and so certain everyone else is some kind of deluded fool who only watches FOX? Do you really think there are no honest, legitimate reasons for questioning this moronic plan? Like:

1: Rare earths are RARE! They make a mess of the environment to mine and process and there aren't that many of them to begin with. You have to drive an EV car for tens of thousands of kilometers to come out ahead of an internal combustion engine in CO2 emissions. But again, they're RARE. So if everyone switches to EVs there aren't going to be enough of them to make the batteries. Which, btw, we will have no way of recycling.

2: Batteries need recharging most often in cold places - like here. We are not going to be able to build the infrastructure to do that in ten years. How do people who live in apartments recharge their cars every night? They can't. Nor will landlords or condo owners have the money to put huge new amounts of wiring through the walls to provide that ability.

3: Even if we had the ability to build and maintain the infrastructure, which, among other things, requires a ton of electricians we don't have, we don't have the power to supply that many EV cars. And again, this is CANADA, the place where you need a minimum of ten years of hearings, studies, reports, meetings and legal challenges to put up anything bigger than a garden shed. You think we're going to build enough new power supply in ten years to supply all that?! Seriously!? It takes ten years just to get permission to build a single power plant!

4: The cost of doing all that, even presuming we can, will be absolutely MASSIVE, and will, among other things, result in much more expensive electricity, driving more manufacturing out of Canada and further impoverishing us. And it will make absolutely ZERO difference in the rate of global warming. None. 

Edited by I am Groot
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More to the point is when are you guys (tiny minority with loudspeakers to convince themselves they're not) going to accept reality?

Like major sales of Cdn lithium ore that didn't even exist as a marketable product a few years ago, battery plants, tons of tower jobs and electrical workers...

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4 hours ago, herbie said:

More to the point is when are you guys (tiny minority with loudspeakers to convince themselves they're not) going to accept reality?

Like major sales of Cdn lithium ore that didn't even exist as a marketable product a few years ago, battery plants, tons of tower jobs and electrical workers...

Gee, I uh, can't help noticing you refused to address any of the points I raised.

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On 1/21/2023 at 7:00 PM, I am Groot said:

Why is it you global warming types are always so arrogant and so certain everyone else is some kind of deluded fool who only watches FOX? Do you really think there are no honest, legitimate reasons for questioning this moronic plan? Like:

1: Rare earths are RARE! They make a mess of the environment to mine and process and there aren't that many of them to begin with. You have to drive an EV car for tens of thousands of kilometers to come out ahead of an internal combustion engine in CO2 emissions. But again, they're RARE. So if everyone switches to EVs there aren't going to be enough of them to make the batteries. Which, btw, we will have no way of recycling.

2: Batteries need recharging most often in cold places - like here. We are not going to be able to build the infrastructure to do that in ten years. How do people who live in apartments recharge their cars every night? They can't. Nor will landlords or condo owners have the money to put huge new amounts of wiring through the walls to provide that ability.

3: Even if we had the ability to build and maintain the infrastructure, which, among other things, requires a ton of electricians we don't have, we don't have the power to supply that many EV cars. And again, this is CANADA, the place where you need a minimum of ten years of hearings, studies, reports, meetings and legal challenges to put up anything bigger than a garden shed. You think we're going to build enough new power supply in ten years to supply all that?! Seriously!? It takes ten years just to get permission to build a single power plant!

4: The cost of doing all that, even presuming we can, will be absolutely MASSIVE, and will, among other things, result in much more expensive electricity, driving more manufacturing out of Canada and further impoverishing us. And it will make absolutely ZERO difference in the rate of global warming. None. 

Yup, we should have been asking your questions 40 years ago when it became apparent our population and economic growth were unsustainable. Now that it's hopeless we have no choice but to eradicate 90% of the human race.

Release the murder unicorns.

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On 1/21/2023 at 9:27 PM, Army Guy said:

What is there to discuss, Liberals record says it all 3 attempts and 3 failures, and we are embarking on the 4 th try, when is the left going to let it go, it is time to try something else...But here is the rub, the left has alrerady made up it's mind on conservative climate policy, and we have not even try it out , just the very words of Conservative climate policy gives you warts on your johnston....

Look up the Conservative Platform for climate change in the last election:

  • Work with the provinces to implement an innovative, national, Personal Low Carbon Savings Account. This will put a price on carbon for consumers without one penny going to the government. Canadians will pay into their Personal Low Carbon Savings Account each time they buy hydrocarbon based fuel. They will be able to apply the money in their account towards things that help them live a greener life. That could mean buying a transit pass or a bicycle or saving up and putting the money towards a new efficient furnace, energy efficient windows or even an electric vehicle

This is the sort of serious policy initiative you'd have people buy into?  This is the better alternative?  ?

Picking something else for the sake of picking something else isn't a solution.  

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Sure... so only people those who buy carbon fuel and the more they buy the more incentive they get.... plus the interest earned on their personal savings is taxable?

Sounds like a typical Tory plan - the rich get advantages while the poor get dick shit. Along with the freedumb to not do or pay dick shit to a solution.

Like I said: get rid of the carbon tax is not a climate plan.

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17 hours ago, herbie said:

Because they were all just snivelling, Negative Nellie...

Of course there's problems to overcome. But you don't try to make people believe not worth doing.

Sooo, that's the best you can do? "Full speed ahead and damn the expense! We'll figure it out later!"

Or not.

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Picking something else for the sake of picking something else isn't a solution.  

True. On the other hand, that is precisely what the existing carbon tax is. 

Doing something for the sake of doing something. Even though anyone with grade eight math can see it's not working and won't work.

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12 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

True. On the other hand, that is precisely what the existing carbon tax is. 

Doing something for the sake of doing something. Even though anyone with grade eight math can see it's not working and won't work.

The existing carbon tax, as implemented, is not very effective.  The carbon offset or cap-and-trade schemes are abominations.  Bad policy is bad policy, but when the proposed alternative is another bad policy, you're not differentiating yourself. 

The reality is that fossil fuels are on their way out.  It's not happening as quickly as some would like, but the (relative) success of TESLA at least is proof-of-concept.  

There are two main problems with this topic as a it pertains to policy:

The first are outright climate change deniers and folks demanding the absolute primacy of the economy over anything else.  These folks will not accept any sacrifice, no matter how reasonable.  

The second are the Greta Thunbergs, demanding impractical, out-of-touch action that will never be accepted. 

In between there are reasonable alternatives, like shuttering coalfire power in favor of natural gas as we transition to even cleaner energy sources over time.  Unfortunately, the die-hards on either side of the debate refuse compromise on any level. 

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Be prepared for the Orwellian total control government to come after all sorts of things that somehow might be related to CO2 emissions.  Perhaps family size control, types of foods we eat, pets we have.   Perhaps ban meat.    Expect this to be never ending.   A debate over banning gas- powered lawn mowers and gas-powered leaf blowers is going on in many places.

Gas Mower & Leaf Blower Bans, Electric Tool Demand Grows – Grizzly Shelter Ltd.

 

 

cow farts.jpg

Edited by blackbird
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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Look up the Conservative Platform for climate change in the last election:

  • Work with the provinces to implement an innovative, national, Personal Low Carbon Savings Account. This will put a price on carbon for consumers without one penny going to the government. Canadians will pay into their Personal Low Carbon Savings Account each time they buy hydrocarbon based fuel. They will be able to apply the money in their account towards things that help them live a greener life. That could mean buying a transit pass or a bicycle or saving up and putting the money towards a new efficient furnace, energy efficient windows or even an electric vehicle

This is the sort of serious policy initiative you'd have people buy into?  This is the better alternative?  ?

Picking something else for the sake of picking something else isn't a solution.  

You guys blow my mind... we have had 3 failed policies already...and we are about to embark on the forth... each one of these have relied on Carbon pricing...Correct me if i'm wrong here i pay this tax at the pump... come tax time, i get a rebate on my federal taxes "suppose to be a return of my carbon taxes i already paid...So i pay the government , then the government gives me back what i put into it...How F'in stupid is that plan.... here i give you 10 bucks , then you give me it back and climate change is solved....

But the liberals lied to all of us we do not get back what we paid into it, in fact not even close... so where does all that money go...is it put into green fund, or rebates for green energy...or anything else i guess.... nope the government has not said what it uses all that money they collect... we do know that all government levels are reporting surpluses , wonder where all that came from.. and yet i read the above plan  also F'in stupid" it really the same plan only worded differently...but PP made it so it is poison...and we have not tried it we just look at the source..

Tell me right now what climate plan your support... Liberals, conservative, whos....becasue it sounds like all of you support the liberal plan , or anything but PP plan...

My bet is come election time there will be atleast 4 new climate change plans...

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5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

You guys blow my mind... we have had 3 failed policies already...and we are about to embark on the forth... each one of these have relied on Carbon pricing...Correct me if i'm wrong here i pay this tax at the pump... come tax time, i get a rebate on my federal taxes "suppose to be a return of my carbon taxes i already paid...So i pay the government , then the government gives me back what i put into it...How F'in stupid is that plan.... here i give you 10 bucks , then you give me it back and climate change is solved....

But the liberals lied to all of us we do not get back what we paid into it, in fact not even close... so where does all that money go...is it put into green fund, or rebates for green energy...or anything else i guess.... nope the government has not said what it uses all that money they collect... we do know that all government levels are reporting surpluses , wonder where all that came from.. and yet i read the above plan  also F'in stupid" it really the same plan only worded differently...but PP made it so it is poison...and we have not tried it we just look at the source..

Tell me right now what climate plan your support... Liberals, conservative, whos....becasue it sounds like all of you support the liberal plan , or anything but PP plan...

My bet is come election time there will be atleast 4 new climate change plans...

Carbon taxes are just more taxes to add to the Liberal slush fund.  Endless stupid projects that scew markets, create winners and losers, increase inflation, and make us all poorer.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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Another report of the disastrous effects of Trudeau's war on climate change:

"We’ve already seen the effect on average Canadians. Under the “waste” component of the 2030 emissions reduction plan, the government mandated single-use plastics out of existence for most people. The actual bans kicked in at the end of 2022, so if you’re still running on hoarded plastic ware, straws and coffee stirrers, you’ll want to make it last. And yet, an analysis of Canada’s net-zero plastics plan proves it’s a net loser . By the government’s own admission, the bans address a virtual non-problem (99% of plastic waste in Canada was already disposed of safely, from a public and environmental perspective). But the government will spend more of your money on the program than it will save you in averted environmental, health or safety damages. And of course, according to predictions from the government itself, substitute materials will actually increase the mass of waste you’ll pay to dispose of and be more harmful to the environment.

On the housing front, the government’s 2030 emissions reduction plan calls for emissions from homes and commercial buildings to fall 42% (from 2019 levels) by 2030. This is wildly unrealistic . If you’d like some numbers, C.D. Howe economists estimate “total annual retrofit costs, just to households, would run from $4.5 billion to $6.3 billion.” That’s roughly the cost of building two or three modern hospitals per year."

GREEN: Trudeau's 'net-zero' mission will cause widespread economic and social harm (msn.com)

This isn't even about the "just transition" plan which we don't have the details about yet. 

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On 1/23/2023 at 3:02 PM, herbie said:

Sure... so only people those who buy carbon fuel and the more they buy the more incentive they get.... plus the interest earned on their personal savings is taxable?

Sounds like a typical Tory plan - the rich get advantages while the poor get dick shit. Along with the freedumb to not do or pay dick shit to a solution.

Like I said: get rid of the carbon tax is not a climate plan.

C097-E55-E-04-C4-40-E2-8-BB1-1-AE5-E0019

Edited by Legato
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