Story from a Christian priest, My Bias, Listening

[Contrarian]

This is a good thread to do before heading to bed. I bashed enough Christianity on this board, might as well do a positive thread. Always good to share when things like this happen. 

Today someone sent me a video. The video was of an Eastern European priest. 

As soon as I seen the cross, the robes and that substance that they throw in the air to bless the air, or whatever they do, as soon as I seen those things, I went to delete it. 

I did not delete it, so I allowed it to play, allow me to translate the story: 

Priest says:

I heard once a story about a group of devil's advisers debating on how to hide the secret of life from the human being.

One devil won the argument: We need to hide it somewhere where the human being can not find it. 

Where?

The voice replied: We need to hide it in their soul, rarely they look there, as human beings like to look for the secret of life through outside things. 

---> The priest finishes his story with the conclusion that peace and the key of life are found in the soul (inside of us, not outside). Once that is settled, then the rest will come. 

---

This made my day. It also made me realise, yet again, that if I fall into tribalism and shut people off just because I perceive them as having nothing to offer, sometimes I can end up missing valuable messages. 

I am glad I did not delete the video today. 

Edited January 18 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

Do the occasional wise words from a priest negate the evil their organized religion perpetuates?

[Contrarian]

13 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Do the occasional wise words from a priest negate the evil their organized religion perpetuates?

Let's skip over the debate process as I already know your position. If you read mine on the forum, you will see: I have a strong opinion that the Roman Empire should have never allowed the new Abrahamic religion in the Empire as a legal entity. They made a political decision. 

But let me give you my opinion about militant atheism, the religious fanatic, 2023 via 1 sentence: 

Some of you atheists produce the same (=) noise as the religious fanatic. 

= )

Edited January 18 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

1 minute ago, Contrarian said:

Let's skip over the debate process

I win?

[Contrarian]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I win?

I am not against people using perception to help themselves. 🙂 

A former president in the U.S. does that too, for years he says: "I won" but reality is not what perception is. 

Edited January 18 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

Just now, Contrarian said:

I am not against people using perception to help themselves. 🙂 

A former president in the U.S. does that too, for 4 years he says "I won" but reality is not what perception is. 

Here’s a boxing analogy…. The sweet science.  
I strapped my atheist gloves on (sometimes I use theist gloves when I’m having moments of non-doubt), and couldn’t find a willing opponent.  

[Contrarian]

9 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I strapped my atheist gloves on (sometimes I use theist gloves when I’m having moments of non-doubt), and couldn’t find a willing opponent.  

Yes, some avoid the religious fanatic too. 

The religious fanatic and the atheist then think, because nobody engages them, it means they won the debate 😃

The reason that people avoid militant atheists are 2 reasons: 

a) Insecurity from the religious fanatic side, they know deep down they might not have even a fraction of the picture. 

b) Agnostics like me, which know that the atheistic mind in history did as much damage as the religious mind. 

So what can possibly we can learn from each other when we are parallel lines? You are a dogmatic, you believe that you know the truth that is: "There is no truth". 

The main point that I have is that neither you or the religious fanatic has any idea about what "truth" is. Neither an agnostic like me. 

But what you and the religious fanatic have in common: you use your ideology for political agenda, that is for sure.

Look at the proof of history and the disaster it had caused. 

We'll agree on other topics, this one, keep saying to yourself: "I won", is a good trick. 😃

Edited January 18 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

8 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

militant atheists

Christopher Hitches never took up arms, did he?

[Contrarian]

11 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Christopher Hitches never took up arms, did he?

Of course he did not take arms because the system did not allow him to take arms. 

But if men like Christopher Hitches would have had power, oh, that would have been a different story. I highly doubt he would have been patient and remembered he lived in a democracy. 

I even know how Hitches would have debated. He would have insisted that Stalin did not practice the real Marxism, then we would have had the beautiful place, if only we followed the original literature. 

Same as a Bible man that sees the disaster which religion caused and says: "Those people did not follow the original literature of Jesus".

Edited January 18 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

45 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Of course he did not take arms because the system did not allow him to take arms. 

But if men like Christopher Hitches would have had power, oh, that would have been a different story. I highly doubt he would have been patient and remembered he lived in a democracy. 

I even know how Hitches would have debated. He would have insisted that Stalin did not practice the real Marxism, then we would have had the beautiful place, if only we followed the original literature. 

Same as a Bible man that sees the disaster which religion caused and says: "Those people did not follow the original literature of Jesus".

Did he ever condone taking up arms, or violence in any way, in the name of the faithless?

[Contrarian]

6 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Did he ever condone taking up arms, or violence in any way, in the name of the faithless?

Men of theory are as dangerous as men that carry out the practical terror for that idealism. 

Lucky for us, men of theory have no power in the West. 

What is your opinion? How do you apply the theories of Hitches without awaking the reaction of religious fanaticism? How do you expect the masses to accept his ideas for a better world? 

How can you make people listen to such theories unless you use force? 

Edited January 18 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

21 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Men of theory are as dangerous as men that carry out the practical terror for that idealism. 

Hitchens’ “theories” would lead to violence?  I asked when he ever condoned violence, and you couldn’t come up with anything. 
 

21 hours ago, Contrarian said:

How do you apply the theories of Hitches without awaking the reaction of religious fanaticism?

It might not be possible.  It might be that religious fanatics will be violent to anything that they perceive as opposing them.  For example, the murders at Charlie Hebdo. 
 

21 hours ago, Contrarian said:

How do you expect the masses to accept his ideas for a better world? 

I’m not sure they will.  

 

21 hours ago, Contrarian said:

How can you make people listen to such theories unless you use force? 

Battle bad ideas with good ideas.  It doesn’t need force.  

[Contrarian]

56 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

1. Hitchens’ “theories” would lead to violence
 

2. It might not be possible.  It might be that religious fanatics will be violent to anything that they perceive as opposing them.  For example, the murders at Charlie Hebdo. 
 

I’m not sure they will.  

 

Battle bad ideas with good ideas.  It doesn’t need force.  

1. Yes if he had power. In reality no, because the West does not allow such ideas to lead. 

2. Of course is not possible. and don't worry about the religious fanatic, Atheistic systems such as Stalin's, Lenin's, Mao's, even recently in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood was taken down, great they were terrible, but a new general came in and started killing religious folk. Is like a never ending circle between you atheists and the religious people. Here you can't practice what you want because the system is above you, and will always be. 

3. Of course they won't, and they should not. Why would a conservative Jewish man or Christian man forsake centuries of their beliefs and something that worked for them to listen to an atheist?  You need something to convince people with or else they will react to you. Is human nature when you approach people for change.  

4. I agree, but what is good and bad? 

For me bad is

• religious fanatic telling me they have the full picture of God.                     
• atheist telling me there is no picture of God, because there is absolutely nothing. 

For me good is

•  there might be something, and we don't have comprehension to understand what it is, some things were not meant to understand, I guess. I don't need to run to atheism or a religious nut to feel better. An agnostic should be able to live with uncertainty is my end of the rant! 😎

Edited January 19 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

4 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Yes if he had power. In reality no, because the West does not allow such ideas to lead. 

How do ideas like his lead to violence?

[Contrarian]

8 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

How do ideas like his lead to violence?

Let me clear the confusion: 

1.His ideas as a western citizen, an atheist, do not lead to violence, he can do whatever he wants within the law of course. 

1.His ideas, his theories as system of government will lead to violence as history has shown and you even have pointed out what the religious will do. So when the religious will react, his group will react to maintain control. Also by violence. How many people did Stalin killed after the Tsarist system went down? 

Atheism OR Religious Fanaticism as a system to be in charge of society always leads to a disaster is my opinion.

Edited January 19 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

4 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

His ideas, his theories as system of government will lead to violence as history has shown and you even have pointed out what the religious will do

Where has Hitchens, or any atheist in the Western World, ever advocated for a government that would enforce atheism by use of force?

 

“All atheists are like Stalin” is just not a sound argument. 

Edited January 19 by TreeBeard

[Contrarian]

6 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

“All atheists are like Stalin” is just not a sound argument. 

That's because just like the religious fanatic, you can not accept that he was following some of the same ideas which Stalin was agreeing with to commit atrocities. 

Is hard for you to accept that. Is like a Christian, when I showed him the Crusades trackrecord, he says like you: "That's not Christiniaty, we are different".  Of course you are different because the democratic system does not allow you to reach at that point for real power so you can show us your tribalism. The system serves like restraint. 😎

Edited January 19 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

1 minute ago, Contrarian said:

That's because just like the religious fanatic, you can not accept that he was reading the same materials that other lunatics in the Soviet Union did atrocities under. 

Is hard for you to accept that. Is like a Christian, when I showed him the Crusades trackrecord, he says like you: "That's not Christiniaty, we are different".  Of course you are different because the democratic system does not allow you to reach at that point for real power so you can show us your tribalism. The system serves like restraint. 😎

This has turned into a conspiracy.  
 

Show evidence that he, or ANY western atheist, espouses advocating atheism by force.  You are making silly assertions with no evidence. 

[Contrarian]

20 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

This has turned into a conspiracy.  
 

Show evidence that he, or ANY western atheist, espouses advocating atheism by force.  You are making silly assertions with no evidence. 

I don't care about it my friend about eastern, western, I seen what your ideology does and the terror that we lived under, don't care if you put pepper & ketchup on it and it tastes better for you. I don't go on that route. Easy as that. 

Opposite of the same coin. Arrogant. The religious fanatics are checking to see if the Bible is in the library, the atheists came to ensure one is not religious by inspecting the location of the Das Kapital in the library. Sometimes at 6 AM in the morning. 

Absolutely I have BIAS towards westerners that talk about theories which never experienced in practical life. The marketing is not working.  Always a pleasure to argue. = )

Edited January 19 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

3 hours ago, Contrarian said:

I don't care about it my friend about eastern, western, I seen what your ideology does and the terror that we lived under, don't care if you put pepper & ketchup on it and it tastes better for you. I don't go on that route. Easy as that. 

Opposite of the same coin. Arrogant. The religious fanatics are checking to see if the Bible is in the library, the atheists came to ensure one is not religious by inspecting the location of the Das Kapital in the library. Sometimes at 6 AM in the morning. 

Absolutely I have BIAS towards westerners that talk about theories which never experienced in practical life. The marketing is not working.  Always a pleasure to argue. = )

“All atheists are like Stalin” is what your argument is.  It’s the same argument from the conspiracy crackpots on this forum…. Just insert a different label for atheist.  

[Contrarian]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

“All atheists are like Stalin” is what your argument is.  It’s the same argument from the conspiracy crackpots on this forum…. Just insert a different label for atheist.  

That's not what I said, you are someone that clearly just asks questions and runs away and then comes back making high school statements when one does not agree fully with them. 

Let me say it a different way, a more basic way, maybe is my communication skills:

All atheists in the West are absolutely not like Stalin. 

I am saying that if someone is a militant atheist in the West and such a person would have lived in a system where Atheism really had access to power like in Stalin's system, they would absolutely have a high chance of becoming extremists to persecute Religious folk. 

You might be one of them too. seeing how from this story all that you had to talk about is the atrocities of religion. We all know about what Abraham did.

This is a story about BIAS in 2023, how one should not judge someone about what they are wearing and what religion they are in, one should pay attention to what they are saying and then you make your judgement. 

Edited January 19 by Contrarian

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

militant atheist

high chance of becoming extremists

 

This is where it gets stupid….   You’ve not shown a single atheist who espouses government mandated atheism through the use of force.  This is just made up nonsense on your part.  

[sharkman]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:05 PM, Contrarian said:

This is a good thread to do before heading to bed. I bashed enough Christianity on this board, might as well do a positive thread. Always good to share when things like this happen. 

Today someone sent me a video. The video was of an Eastern European priest. 

As soon as I seen the cross, the robes and that substance that they throw in the air to bless the air, or whatever they do, as soon as I seen those things, I went to delete it. 

I did not delete it, so I allowed it to play, allow me to translate the story: 

Priest says:

I heard once a story about a group of devil's advisers debating on how to hide the secret of life from the human being.

One devil won the argument: We need to hide it somewhere where the human being can not find it. 

Where?

The voice replied: We need to hide it in their soul, rarely they look there, as human beings like to look for the secret of life through outside things. 

---> The priest finishes his story with the conclusion that peace and the key of life are found in the soul (inside of us, not outside). Once that is settled, then the rest will come. 

---

This made my day. It also made me realise, yet again, that if I fall into tribalism and shut people off just because I perceive them as having nothing to offer, sometimes I can end up missing valuable messages. 

I am glad I did not delete the video today. 

That's a fake made up story.  Also, peace and the key of life are not found in us.  If your discernment for the truth is that weak, then you need to do a lot of reading. 

[Contrarian]

24 minutes ago, sharkman said:

That's a fake made up story.  Also, peace and the key of life are not found in us.  If your discernment for the truth is that weak, then you need to do a lot of reading. 

The chances of this priest making up this story, which I am open to, are nowhere near your fake CIA sources which you claim to have, therefore taking advantage of real agents work and sacrifice.

Thanks for dropping by, comrade.

Edited January 21 by Contrarian

[sharkman]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

The chances of this priest making up this story, which I am open to, are nowhere near your fake CIA sources which you claim to have, therefore taking advantage of real agents work and sacrifice.

Thanks for dropping by, comrade.

Gosh, you are like a broken record with this CIA nonsense stuff.  Find any quotes of me talking about CIA sources or conspiracies outside of my discussion of JFK.  90% of my posts are on the economic conditions that are developing.

You, on the other hand talk about anything as you pretend to be knowledgeable with a few tidbits you get from google.  Spamming this forum with useless nonsense.

This priest fable, and your wishes concerning it, are irrelevant, comrade.  Any priest worth his salt wouldn’t believe that devils can change in any way what God has ordained.  You want to believe a kook?  Be my guest.

You are just another hypocrite that picks and chooses what you support/believe based on situational ethics.  Once you get a few more years in with freedom, you might actually start being worth listening to.