Jump to content

Ford government increasing private health care


Recommended Posts

 

Premier Ford and his health minister just announced this morning and answered questions about expanding private care for certain surgeries in Ontario and getting people who have been waiting a long time the care they need.  What do you think about this?  The opposition Liberal and NDP parties are opposing this.  Ford has said repeatedly people will still pay with their OHIP card.  Of course the unions are opposed to expanding private care even if OHIP pays for it.  What is it with these unions.  Whatever works to get help for the people who are suffering or who need health care should be the top priority.

This article describes the problem with bureaucracies.  Private businesses are not under the same bureaucratic constraints as government run institutions.  They seem to be able to operate much more efficiently.  Hopefully this will help to reduce the waiting lists and waiting time for people needing medical care.  This is already apparently being done in Ontario, but just being increased.  Some other provinces do this somewhat.  Of course ideology of the left opposes any private care and think only public institutions can do things.  However, the public health insurance plan is paying for it.  A lot of their opposition may have much to do with unions.  That puts unions ahead of the well-being of the public.

quote

Typically, if you walk into a shop or any other private business, you will quickly be attended to. On the rare occasion when a queue forms in a private shop, the staff rush about briskly and efficiently, like bees in a hive. By contrast, if you visit a court registry or a department of motor vehicles, you will be asked to take a number and wait, often for hours, as bored and complacent bureaucrats shuffle around and chat with each other, yawning and smiling dreamily while in front of them people are waiting.
Government departments involving clerical work are even slower. The pace dawdles to fill the available time. While a developer can retain an architect to draw up plans, have an engineer review them, a quantitative surveyor cost them, and a lender commit millions of dollars, all in the space of one or two months, government approval of the plans can take years. A private individual subject to this torture can call, write, complain, and rage, all to no avail; it is either the government’s way or not at all.  unquote

Bureaucracy is slow | GoodGovernment.org

Edited by blackbird
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1.  What do you think about this?  The opposition Liberal and NDP parties are opposing this.  Ford has said repeatedly people will still pay with their OHIP card. 

2. Of course the unions are opposed to expanding private care even if OHIP pays for it.  What is it with these unions.  Whatever works to get help for the people who are suffering or who need health care should be the top priority.

 

1. I'm in favour as long as it's single payer.
2. Because they have to protect their members ?  I think this is such a basic question I'll end my reply there.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good on Ford government. Our public health care system is really sick and in disastrous shape. People are dying unnecessarily. Over 30,000 deaths related to medical errors reported in 2021. Hospitals are overcrowded, emergency wait times too long and long wait times for surgeries. We need to have a full complete Private Health care system alongside the Public ones.

PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM NOW,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So where are the private clinics going to come up the health workers the government and unions are unable or unwilling to? 

Well that's the question.

Ostensibly it would be requalified workers or people working on their days off.

Sounds ok to me but we have to maintain:
- Single payer
- Delivery quality
- Labour laws are honoured

if it also results in a true Canadian PUBLIC that understands and appreciates our healthcare system that would be an awesome bonus

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got a laugh out of this quote:

Quote

In addition to lifting the cap on the number of IHFs that can operate in Ontario, Ford also used the photo-op as an opportunity to highlight the government’s plans to privatize “simple” medical operations.

Ford said Ontario residents can now “knock off simple stuff” that is “not complicated,” singling out “knee replacement, hip replacement, cataracts” as a few examples.


Cataract removal is generally very straightforward (and still highly paid because of what I call fee inertia) but having a hip done is a traumatic business, hardly simple stuff one knocks off. If you’re considering one, bear in mind that illness can result. Death is unusual, around 0.6%, but it does occur. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I got a laugh out of this quote:


Cataract removal is generally very straightforward (and still highly paid because of what I call fee inertia) but having a hip done is a traumatic business, hardly simple stuff one knocks off. If you’re considering one, bear in mind that illness can result. Death is unusual, around 0.6%, but it does occur. 

But maybe things that don't require extensive time in a Hospital? 

Free's the Hospitals up for emergencies like dealing with an influx of people with acute respiratory symptoms. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Boges said:

But maybe things that don't require extensive time in a Hospital? 

Free's the Hospitals up for emergencies like dealing with an influx of people with acute respiratory symptoms. 

Yes. All things going well, one shouldn’t be in hospital too long after a hip replacement. However, anyone who has seen one would not call it ‘simple stuff’. You’re way inside the body and the forces required are considerable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Yes. All things going well, one shouldn’t be in hospital too long after a hip replacement. However, anyone who has seen one would not call it ‘simple stuff’. You’re way inside the body and the forces required are considerable. 

Sure. But it's a common procedure and it's a service that has suffered over the pandemic. Offload it to private carriers and you don't have Hospitals cancelling elective surgeries if too many people have the Flu. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

Sure. But it's a common procedure and it's a service that has suffered over the pandemic. Offload it to private carriers and you don't have Hospitals cancelling elective surgeries if too many people have the Flu. 

There is an argument for that as long as these ‘private carriers’ are able to deal with the complications that occur post-op like a regular hospital would. With our current crisis in medical and nursing manpower we are stretched thin already. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

There is an argument for that as long as these ‘private carriers’ are able to deal with the complications that occur post-op like a regular hospital would. With our current crisis in medical and nursing manpower we are stretched thin already. 

I suspect the government would rather pay a flat rate for care than hire Unionized healthcare workers as public servants. 

It's probably a more efficient business model. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Good on Ford government. Our public health care system is really sick and in disastrous shape. People are dying unnecessarily. Over 30,000 deaths related to medical errors reported in 2021. Hospitals are overcrowded, emergency wait times too long and long wait times for surgeries. We need to have a full complete Private Health care system alongside the Public ones.

PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM NOW,

Where did you get that statistic? In Ontario??

Having questioned that, Fords announcement is a good thing. We have clinics and they have facilities and openings to do many surgeries.

I have an example. I have a colleague that needed hip replacement. He was on a waiting list for over 2 years (before COVID) and suffered dramatically for that period of time. He finally got the operation and he was told it cost over $100K.

I have a personal friend that also needed a hip operation and was also on a waiting list for 2 years, then COVID happened. He could not get any information as to when he would get his hip replaced. It got so bad he went to Montreal, got diagnosed, got in within 3 weeks, had his hip p\replaced. It cost him 4 days and $25K.

I think "private" health care can be useful but not at the demise of the public system. Private clinics should be able to operate and function within the present health system as an alternative to public hospitals. I think private clinics should be able to bid on operations from a waiting list.

The difference between Canadian  and American systems is that the American system is a huge for profit system whereas our system is a huge money wasting system that really costs the same. In Canada, including private clinics could be financially beneficial to our health care system.

Edited by ExFlyer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The statistics was for Canada,

Topic is Ontario. You are providing misinformation.

Nearest I could find and it is an 10 year old report is "Ontario hospitals disclosed that 36 patients had suffered severe adverse events – 10 of them fatal – because of medication errors.".

"covers the period from October 2011 to December 2012, roughly the first year after the Ontario government ordered hospitals to begin reporting critical incidents involving medications or intravenous fluids."

https://www.longwoods.com/newsdetail/3399

I am sure it has increased since then but.....

"Misdiagnosis, late diagnosis, and failure to diagnose are also some of the most serious types of medical errors. Shearer said, “If the ER is busy and you have common symptoms, maybe something gets missed that contributes to a serious injury or fatality.”

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Topic is Ontario. You are providing misinformation.

Nearest I could find and it is an 10 year old report is "Ontario hospitals disclosed that 36 patients had suffered severe adverse events – 10 of them fatal – because of medication errors.".

"covers the period from October 2011 to December 2012, roughly the first year after the Ontario government ordered hospitals to begin reporting critical incidents involving medications or intravenous fluids."

https://www.longwoods.com/newsdetail/3399

I am sure it has increased since then but.....

"Misdiagnosis, late diagnosis, and failure to diagnose are also some of the most serious types of medical errors. Shearer said, “If the ER is busy and you have common symptoms, maybe something gets missed that contributes to a serious injury or fatality.”

 

 

No you are giving misinformation. 

https://www.guelphtoday.com/spotlight/medical-mistakes-are-the-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-canada-5787771#:~:text=The statistics are alarming.,behind heart disease and cancer.

It cannot be 28000 deaths due to medical errors in Canada and the share of Ontario which has almost half the entire population in it be only 36 patients out of 28000.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No you are giving misinformation. 

https://www.guelphtoday.com/spotlight/medical-mistakes-are-the-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-canada-5787771#:~:text=The statistics are alarming.,behind heart disease and cancer.

It cannot be 28000 deaths due to medical errors in Canada and the share of Ontario which has almost half the entire population in it be only 36 patients out of 28000.

What is misinformation?

I told you the nearest I could find is a 10 year old report.

I do not make up the reports, they are published by health authorities,. You many not like them but, you have no better information.

Your broad statement that "Over 30,000 deaths related to medical errors reported in 2021. " is in all of Canada and the topic is Ontario.

Also, what is included in "medical errors" is a very broad brush statement. Your link clearly defines medical errors being numerous issues "

Some of the more common medical mistakes include:

  • surgical and anesthesia errors,
  • inadequate monitoring after a procedure,
  • and birth injuries or trauma.

Delayed diagnosis and treatment

Misdiagnosis, late diagnosis, and failure to diagnose are also some of the most serious types of medical errors. Shearer said, “If the ER is busy and you have common symptoms, maybe something gets missed that contributes to a serious injury or fatality.”

Oh and your link is a "Sponsored Content" advertisement from  "Personal injury lawyer Catherine Shearer". No doubt to drum up business.

Your  pedestal is as small as your point.

 

Edited by ExFlyer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Topic is Ontario. You are providing misinformation.

Nearest I could find and it is an 10 year old report is "Ontario hospitals disclosed that 36 patients had suffered severe adverse events – 10 of them fatal – because of medication errors.".

"covers the period from October 2011 to December 2012, roughly the first year after the Ontario government ordered hospitals to begin reporting critical incidents involving medications or intravenous fluids."

https://www.longwoods.com/newsdetail/3399

10 deaths in over a year from drugs? That sounds low? 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh dear, so this is how Ontario plans to plug its manpower gaps. Talk about a hostile move. 
 

Quote

Premier Doug Ford is set to introduce changes that would let Canadian health-care workers registered or licensed in other provinces start immediately practicing in Ontario.

Currently, health-care professionals must be registered with one of Ontario’s health regulatory colleges before working in the province. However, in an effort to “overcome bureaucratic delays,” Ontario is prepared to loosen those rules.

The Ford government said it will introduce these legislative changes in February.

"To nurses, doctors, and health-care workers across Canada: if you've been thinking of making Ontario your new home, now's the time to make that happen," Ford said at an announcement in Windsor, Ont. on Thursday.

This announcement comes just days after Ford announced the province’s plan to invest in private clinics to perform more procedures. Critics have raised concerns about how health-care staff could be inclined to leave the public sector for better pay and hours, resulting in more severe staffing shortages.

 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-looking-to-poach-health-care-workers-from-other-provinces-to-fill-shortages-1.6237423

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

10 deaths in over a year from drugs? That sounds low? 

I don't write or collate the reports or links.

Research and come up with better numbers, although I really do not care that much. I am only dispelling misinformation by the OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Oh dear, so this is how Ontario plans to plug its manpower gaps. Talk about a hostile move. 
 

 

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-looking-to-poach-health-care-workers-from-other-provinces-to-fill-shortages-1.6237423

What is hostile about using outside sources to solve problems??

How outside sources derive their manpower is not an Ontario issue unless you are wanting Ontario to step in and disallow workers from taking on additional part time positions?

I have to get infusions on a regular basis and almost all the nurses working there are full time hospital workers and are working at the infusion clinic part time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,712
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    nyralucas
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • Jeary earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Venandi went up a rank
      Apprentice
    • Gaétan earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • Dictatords earned a badge
      First Post
    • babetteteets earned a badge
      One Year In
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...