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Liberals creating separate justice system for aboriginals


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This is a serious mistake.   They said the idea is to focus on rehabilitation over punishment.  So far that ideology has resulted in a number of police officers and many ordinary Canadians being murdered.  Canadians need to wake up.  This has already proven a disaster.  It also has resulted in repeat offenders being constantly arrested and released in B.C. 

Ottawa laying groundwork for Indigenous justice systems, says Lametti (msn.com)

Some citizens in Dawson Creek have formed a self defence group because the RCMP have been unable to stop the crime by repeat offenders in that town.  Some are arming themselves with whatever they can in their homes.

Fed up B.C. Peace residents take action against property crime | Watch (msn.com)

 

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The group the justice system has probably gotten the most slack about punishing - focusing on 'rehabilitation' instead, is native women. Interestingly, despite years of efforts the number of native women in prisons is rising. It's now about 42% of the prison population. Which is crazy given natives only make up about 5% of the population. Even native men only account for 28%. 

So all told, I'd say the policy has been a failure. It's hard to see how things will be improved by increasing the number of people diverted into this system.

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All 13 Premiers are bucking Trudeau's plan to keep releasing dangerous offenders and demanding he amend the bail system for dangerous offenders.

Premiers demand bail reform in letter to Trudeau after killing of OPP officer (msn.com)

I really don't think Trudeau cares about the well-being of the police or Canadian people or he would not have let the bail system go this way long ago.  Same with the parole board.  What did Trudeau say or do about it after 12 people were stabbed to death in Saskatchewan Cree Nation last September by a guy released by the parole board?   I am skeptical that he will do anything.  He is busy fighting climate change and forcing his woke ideology on Canadians.

LILLEY: Japan asks for natural gas, Trudeau offers lectures on decarbonizing (msn.com)  

Trudeau lives in some kind of alt reality.

With all these kind of things going on between Trudeau and Premiers, not to mention the failing health care system, I am wondering if federalism is really a viable system any longer.  Would provinces be better off as sovereign jurisdictions so they could look after the justice system, health care system and everything else properly?  The federal system is becoming more of a disaster every day.  It is clear cooperative federalism is not working the way it should.  There is constant tension and differences between what the federal government is doing or not doing and what the provinces are doing or think should be done.  The provinces do not have control or jurisdiction in some critical areas that are failing Canadians.

 

 

Trudeau and Ford.jpg

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Opposition leader Pierre Poilievre calls upon the Trudeau government to reverse the bail system to keep dangerous offenders behind bars until their court case and behind bars until it is safe to release them.

He said police are often arresting repeat offenders in the morning and they are released in the afternoon.

 Conservative opposition leader makes stop in Winnipeg | Watch (msn.com)

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Read a bit about aboriginal justice historically.  It is complicated and quite different from European ideas of justice which were brought to north America during colonization.  I am not sure what the federal government's intention is in creating a separate justice system for aboriginals.  I think the BC NDP government is also moving in that direction.  I doubt the federal or BC government really understand what they are getting themselves into.  There is nothing in historic aboriginal culture that I can see that would enable an aboriginal system to be set up.  The only thing the federal government might mean, but have not explained, is traditional non-native laws and justice/punishments could be transferred to aboriginals to administer.  But then what is the point?  It would be more of a feel-good gesture.  Two separate systems could also create conflicts in various ways.  Would it only apply to aboriginals living on reserves?   Would it apply to aboriginals living off reserve in the cities and towns?  Would serious crimes be punished with jail time or what kind of punishment would there be?  The federal government says they want to stress rehabilitation instead of punishment.  That must mean no jail time.  Would that mean no jail time for serious crimes such as assault or murder?  The whole thing doesn't sound rational.  Are they going to use healing lodges or smudging?  Or are they going to do native dances in their traditional costumes to drive out the evil spirits from the offender?   I don't think that would be considered as justice by any rational thinking person.  Many natives would not find that acceptable either.

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21 hours ago, blackbird said:

It is complicated and quite different from European ideas of justice

Aren’t our ideas of Justice very different now?  
We don’t put people to death.  No more slavery.  Women have a vote in our democracy, as well as other “races”.   We generally don’t care what happens between consenting adults.  
 

This is a very different Justice system than we had even 150 years ago.  

22 hours ago, blackbird said:

Are they going to use healing lodges or smudging?  Or are they going to do native dances in their traditional costumes to drive out the evil spirits from the offender? 

You really haven’t looked into what it means at all, have you?  You think indigenous Justice is about dancing so they can drive out evil spirits?  
 

Do you have any idea how ignorant and racist that sounds?

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8 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You really haven’t looked into what it means at all, have you?  You think indigenous Justice is about dancing so they can drive out evil spirits?  

That really shows your ignorance.

 "they must choose to follow Indigenous programming and spirituality. Once inmates have expressed a sincere desire to participate in the spiritual correctional services offered at Indigenous healing lodges, they are entitled to participate in those spiritual practices under the Corrections and Conditional Release Act (CCRA).'"

Indigenous healing lodges (csc-scc.gc.ca)

If stating the truth is racist not much I can do about it.  The truth is the truth even if you can't bear to hear it.   Do you have any idea what aboriginal spirituality means?  It might involve teaching about their ancient beliefs but could also involve smudging, dancing, costumes, etc. to drive out evil spirits.  That is part of native spirituality.

native dancing.jpg

natives masks.jpg

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

That really shows your ignorance.

 "they must choose to follow Indigenous programming and spirituality. Once inmates have expressed a sincere desire to participate in the spiritual correctional services offered at Indigenous healing lodges, they are entitled to participate in those spiritual practices under the Corrections and Conditional Release Act (CCRA).'"

Indigenous healing lodges (csc-scc.gc.ca)

If stating the truth is racist not much I can do about it.  The truth is the truth even if you can't bear to hear it.   Do you have idea what aboriginal spirituality means?  It might involve teaching about their ancient beliefs but could also involve smudging, dancing, costumes, etc. to drive out evil spirits.  That is part of native spirituality.

native dancing.jpg

natives masks.jpg

So you’re assuming the part about evil spirits?

At least you’re actually reading about it now.  Small victories.  

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6 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

So you’re assuming the part about evil spirits?

No, I have known long ago native spirituality involves the powers of darkness.  As the government website says, it involves "spiritual" or "spirituality"  which may refer to religion or religious things.  However, native spirituality is not Christian or Biblical. From a Biblical point of view, it is false religion (pagan).  Definition of paganism - a religion other than one of the main world religions, specifically a non-Christian or pre-Christian religion.  It was the main religious practice prior to European settlement.

Native spirituality still exists and is still practiced by some aboriginals and in some locations.  Medicine men still exist as well.  Healing lodges are a part of this.

This is what the government justice system apparently sends some people to as verified by their own website which I quoted above.

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37 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Darkness?  The Christians taking away their children, tormenting and sexually abusing them….  That’s the real darkness.   

One evil does not justify another.  You sound like you are trying to justify evil.  That's what people do when they are unregenerate and oppose God. You need to be delivered from darkness.  Read the New Testament and believe.  Ask God to come into your life and open your eyes.

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3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

One evil does not justify another.  You sound like you are trying to justify evil.  That's what people do when they are unregenerate and oppose God. You need to be delivered from darkness.  Read the New Testament and believe.  Ask God to come into your life and open your eyes.

We've done pretty good at separating religion from government, now we need to work at separating it from spirituality.

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56 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Darkness?  The Christians taking away their children, tormenting and sexually abusing them….  That’s the real darkness.   

The fact is everyone has their false gods at times in one degree or another, Christians included.  Nobody is perfect in this life.  However, there are clear things that we need to learn to give us guidance in life.  If one does not accept that guidance that God has given us, they are like a ship without a rudder.  All sorts of evil practices can become acceptable and we become blind to being able to discern between right and wrong, or good and evil.  That is why is is so important to take this business seriously and take God's revelation to us seriously.  That way we can work to avoid doing things that result in a lot of pain and suffering.

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21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We've done pretty good at separating religion from government, now we need to work at separating it from spirituality.

I think you are off on a kind of tangent.  I know I risk saying anything to you because you may go rogue as you have inthe past.  But if we can speak in a calm way maybe we can understand each other better. 

Religion has various meanings.  There is true religion and mostly false religion in the world.  True religion is simply recognizing and accepting the fact God is a fact of life and everything has a connection to him and his will.  Secular humanism on the other hand is way of looking at everything that tries to deny the existence of God which is folly and the Devil's game.  You do understand the difference? 

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24 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I think you are off on a kind of tangent.  I know I risk saying anything to you because you may go rogue as you have inthe past.  But if we can speak in a calm way maybe we can understand each other better. 

Religion has various meanings.  There is true religion and mostly false religion in the world.  True religion is simply recognizing and accepting the fact God is a fact of life and everything has a connection to him and his will.  Secular humanism on the other hand is way of looking at everything that tries to deny the existence of God which is folly and the Devil's game.  You do understand the difference? 

Spirituality just is what it is in humans everywhere.  Religion is a belief, spirituality isn't. Religious beliefs aren't true or false, they're simply appropriate or inappropriate.  What we do with our spirituality is also either appropriate or inappropriate and pretty much entirely up to the individual to decide what that is.  What's really inappropriate above all else in my view is attempting to impose these things on others. 

In any case we at least seem to agree that everyone's free choice is theirs alone.

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55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We've done pretty good at separating religion from government, now we need to work at separating it from spirituality.

You need to separate false religion from everything by persuasion or choices.  But you cannot separate God from Government or life.  Atheism or neo-liberalism is a blasphemous disaster as we see.  God will not be relegated to the outside of anything.  

“And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.”
KJV Numbers 3:4

Atheism is a form of false religion and God would not be happy with it.  Man needs some guidance for everything in life.  He cannot reject God and just use his own mind as a guide.  That has proven disastrous throughout history.  We should be able to see that much.  Would you agree?  Secular humanism is a false god and leads to nothing good.  That is why God say as the first commandment of the ten commandments:

" 2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"  Exodus 20: 2-4 KJV

Notice if we reject the true God and make our own minds our god, we are in effect making a false god.  That is why secular humanism is a false god.

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2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Religion is a belief, spirituality isn't.

That is a clear contradiction of yourself.  Spirituality refers to the supernatural or spiritual which is what religion is all about.  

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What's really inappropriate above all else in my view is attempting to impose these things on others. 

That is nonsensical because speaking, reasoning, communication, presenting evidence is what life is all about.  You do it on here and just did.  It is hypocritical to say what someone else speaks is "imposing" but what you say is not.  Do you get the hypocrisy in the statement you made?   If you believe in freedom speech, which I assume, at least theoretically you do, then you should respect other people's right to speak their beliefs and stop calling it an imposition which is insulting.

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6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You need to separate false religion from everything by persuasion or choices.  But you cannot separate God from Government or life.  Atheism or neo-liberalism is a blasphemous disaster as we see.  God will not be relegated to the outside of anything.  

“And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.”
KJV Numbers 3:4

Atheism is a form of false religion and God would not be happy with it.  Man needs some guidance for everything in life.  He cannot reject God and just use his own mind as a guide.  That has proven disastrous throughout history.  We should be able to see that much.  Would you agree?  Secular humanism is a false god and leads to nothing good.  That is why God say as the first commandment of the ten commandments:

" 2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"  Exodus 20: 2-4 KJV

Notice if we reject the true God and make our own minds our god, we are in effect making a false god.  That is why secular humanism is a false god.

I don't know man...we're like aliens from different planets or maybe even different dimensions given our ways of looking at the world are so vastly different.

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11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

our ways of looking at the world are so vastly different.

Now that is a fact nobody would dispute.  But there might be some things we can agree on.  I don't know.

I used to look at the world in a similar way.  I never understood there is a supernatural world and the material world our bodies are living in is only temporary.  I did not really understand there is a God who created the whole thing and is far greater than anything we imagine on earth.  We need to realize that God created everything for a reason.  We are not here as some kind of cosmic accident that just happened by chance.

God created us for his glory.  That might not be easy to grasp, but it is true.  He has a plan and this life and earth is only temporary.  He gave us free will.  That's why imposing any belief system is not a useful way.  That would be against free will.  You and I and everyone must decide on the evidence and make up our own minds on these spiritual things.

But God has not left us without anything.  He gave us his written revelation that tells us a lot about himself and about ourselves, how we are fallen and corrupt and need to be redeemed from our fallen nature and made sons of God.  That is what life is for as far as God is concerned.

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35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I don't know man...we're like aliens from different planets or maybe even different dimensions given our ways of looking at the world are so vastly different.

This topic is really trying to point out the error of the government directing aboriginals to a native separate justice system.  The reason why that does not make sense is the aboriginal justice system is embedded in false religion or paganism.  They worship a false god or gods, false spirituality and neglects the true God.  No possible good can come of that.

"Man’s worship of God can never be correct until he holds in his mind a right concept of God. Some think of God as being like a grand old man who did some wonderful things for Moses and the Children of Israel many years ago, but in our day of science and progress he is simply out-dated. Others think of God as being like a little old lady down the street. He is so nice and gentle and kind. He tries to calm you when you are afraid, and so forth. Still others think of God as a man with a big stick. Every time you want to have some fun, he is there with his stick to prod your conscience. There may be some truth in each of these descriptions of God, but none expresses all the truth. The God of the Bible has revealed himself as an all-powerful eternal Being who is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and yet righteous and just in all His doings.

God is invisible. In His full essence, God has no material substance and no bodily form, and so God cannot be seen. God is a spirit (John 4:24) and a spirit does not have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). The benediction in 1 Timothy speaks of God as “eternal, immortal, and invisible.” In Colossians 1:15 we read about the image of the invisible God. These passages teach that God does not have a material or bodily nature. And since sight sees only objects of the material world, God cannot be seen with the material eye."  Graven Images: False Worship of God (biblehelpsinc.org)

Native spirituality involves dancing around in costumes to drive evil spirits out of people or things.  Sometimes they use smudging and the smoke is supposed to also do it.  This is a kind of witchcraft or sorcery and therefore is a false religious belief system.  Why liberals endorse this type of thing is a mystery.  One can only conclude they support it because they have no real beliefs or correct idea about God themselves.  So anything goes.  

It should be mentioned that not all natives follow the historic native spirituality.  There are some I know of who are Christians and believe some central things about God and the Bible.  Their group is called Tribal Trails and they are based out of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan.  They have a television broadcast on one of the religious channels and have been around for 40 years.  I feel a very close tie with them.  We are both believing in the same God and Savior Jesus Christ.  Bless them.

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1 minute ago, blackbird said:

This topic is really trying to point out the error of the government directing aboriginals to a native separate justice system.  The reason why that does not make sense is the aboriginal justice system is embedded in false religion or paganism.  They worship a false god or gods, false spirituality and neglects the true God.  No possible good can come of that.

I can't even comment on a statement that at it's core assumes the existence of your belief is as real as the nose on my face. Its impossible.

All I can say is that no good will ever come from you or far worse a government imposing your belief on the world.  But history had been proving that forever.

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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

All I can say is that no good will ever come from you or far worse a government imposing your belief on the world.  But history had been proving that forever.

Again you are claiming I am quote imposing unquote when I am not.  I do not believe government should impose any religion on anyone.  But by the same line of thinking, they should not be supporting, endorsing and referring convicted criminals to a false religious system.   As I said, belief in God and written revelation is purely a matter of individual choice which we will be held accountable for in the judgment after death.  God is gracious and merciful and willing to forgive those who recognize their sinful self and come to him in repentance and faith through his Son.

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