BeaverFever Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 On 1/22/2023 at 8:27 PM, Army Guy said: British had tanks in Bosnia So did others apparently (just not Canada). I stand corrected. On 1/22/2023 at 8:27 PM, Army Guy said: You use the same process they have been, light units would train 6 to 8 month prior to their tour, in Lav's , i mean it is not uncommon to be cross trained on several different types of vehicles... So if I understand you, even if we only had say one dedicated heavy mech brigade and the others were light/Lav brigades , the entire army is cross-trained on both vehicle types so you can leave the vehicles of whichever type is best suited in theatre and just rotate the personnel from any brigade through them? On 1/22/2023 at 8:27 PM, Army Guy said: As for making them Air mobile or airborne , we still don't have the helos or aircraft to move them.. Yes I know it’s a pipe dream but makes the most of light infantry On 1/22/2023 at 8:27 PM, Army Guy said: it took 10 years to purchase 9 mm pistols worth maybe 10 million... and they are doing it in in 2 buys becasue it may be to complicated...i retired in 2014 LSVW replacement project was already 12 years old, nothing on the books now, HLVW project was 10 years ...DND will always say the same thing they are coming soon...just don't hold your breath, Canada has sucked at military procurement since the days of the Ross Rifle debacle in WW1. The times where it’s actually gone right seem like accidents. Even if we grow ourr force significantly we will always be a small buyer of most items which means that our starting assumption in most cases should be to look for readily available, proven off the shelf products common with our allies. But CAF/DND often want highly modified or unique capabilities and components. Politicians only want made-in-Canada with industrial benefits distributed in every region of the country. The audit everything beancounters want to spend $10 million to investigate whether they can find $5million in savings. The Canadian public either doesn’t want a military at all or they want tax cuts and budget cuts at all costs, damn the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: So did others apparently (just not Canada). I stand corrected. So if I understand you, even if we only had say one dedicated heavy mech brigade and the others were light/Lav brigades , the entire army is cross-trained on both vehicle types so you can leave the vehicles of whichever type is best suited in theatre and just rotate the personnel from any brigade through them? Yes I know it’s a pipe dream but makes the most of light infantry Canada has sucked at military procurement since the days of the Ross Rifle debacle in WW1. The times where it’s actually gone right seem like accidents. Even if we grow ourr force significantly we will always be a small buyer of most items which means that our starting assumption in most cases should be to look for readily available, proven off the shelf products common with our allies. But CAF/DND often want highly modified or unique capabilities and components. Politicians only want made-in-Canada with industrial benefits distributed in every region of the country. The audit everything beancounters want to spend $10 million to investigate whether they can find $5million in savings. The Canadian public either doesn’t want a military at all or they want tax cuts and budget cuts at all costs, damn the consequences. Well they called the Cougars tank trainers, a 6x6 lav with a 76 mm main gun...intended to be strictly tank trainers and we used them in an operational theater as tanks ... Each battle group before getting deployed has a 6 to 8 month training or work up period, It requires a period of heavy training, so yes when light or LAV based units would enter this training period they would train on heavy like tanks or tracked IFV, or vice versa light infantry would train on the LAV's, And the equipment would stay in theater, unless it has seen heavy use then it would be sent back to Canada for heavy mechanical work...ie rebuild exchanged for equipment with less miles or hours or was blown up completely and needed to be replaced, lots of that went on in Afghanistan, the bone yard was off limits to most people they did not want regular Canadians to see just how much vehicles we went through, unfortunately most had also claimed a young Canadian soldier as well.. CSOR was suppose to be expanded years back, they were suppose to be our Airborne /Airmobile units... all based out of Petawawa today thats where all our chinooks are, or so went the plan...not sure but it is all on on the back burner, regular Infantry units are in some cases below 60 % strength, and thats where they would draw new Candidates from.. so it does not make sense to add to all of that... It's not that we suck at purchasing stuff, the government is purchasing stuff for Ukraine in record time... we just don't have the will to do it for our own military, that and dozens of other governmental departments have a need to have a say, that and it all comes down to do the politicians like it, and what off sets is the company offering, is it good, will it save lives, is it state of the art have very little to do with what gets chosen F-35/ Sea king replacement perfect examples.... Yes DND wants all the bells and whistles, becasue it takes decades before we buy a replacement, in most cases over 40 years... I think it is becasue the Average Canadian does not know enough about what it is DND gives them, or what is it they are in danger of losing, like a seat at the table, or full control over our sovereignty, take Hans island as a example had this happened with a hostile country, that story would have been much different. Most do not know what state our military is in right now, and the media continues to enlighten them but nobody is hearing the message...i think if they knew people would be screaming to know why... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 Here is another article about our nations tanks some might find it interesting, 18 % serviceability rate, that is extremely low...but it would explain why we are only sending 4 tanks when a majority of them are broken, kind of puts things into perpective about how much we don't know about our military.... what else is out there that we don't know.. How Canada sabotaged its own fleet of tanks | National Post Another warning for the CDS that will go unheard for the most part... Is Canada’s military ready for the challenges ahead? ‘No,’ says defence chief - National | Globalnews.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 43 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I think it is becasue the Average Canadian does not know enough about what it is DND gives them, or what is it they are in danger of losing, like a seat at the table, or full control over our sovereignty, take Hans island as a example had this happened with a hostile country, those arguments have never worked reason being, everyone knows that Canada is an American proxy and the Canadian Forces are inherently subordinate to Washington therein only the Hegemons have foreign policies only the Hegemons have full control over their sovereignty an attack on a proxy is the Hegemons problem Canada lives within the impenetrable fortress of the Hegemon Canada does not fight its own wars, Canada only fights other people's wars except in one case, which was the Northwest Rebellion of 1885 thus if Canada needs a military on its own behalf, that would only require a Militia & Armed Constabulary which is basically what Canada has now, since the Regular Force is simply the Permanent Militia of 1885 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 The Leopard inventory is interesting. Among others Singapore 170+ and Switzerland 224. https://armedforces.eu/land_forces/tanks/Leopard_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manymoons11 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 What do we know about the Canadian military and there behavior in international affairs? History (taught in school) and the news seldom reveal information about Canada when speaking of global wars and international problems. However, I think Canada has a blue streak about them: they recognize the importance of peace and have self-control and use restraint when dealing with the delicacy of weapons etc. Canada has never been invaded or has never invaded another country -- is this a country that the USA can count on when dealing with foreign affairs? Is this a flag that we can trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 16 hours ago, Dougie93 said: those arguments have never worked reason being, everyone knows that Canada is an American proxy and the Canadian Forces are inherently subordinate to Washington therein only the Hegemons have foreign policies only the Hegemons have full control over their sovereignty an attack on a proxy is the Hegemons problem Canada lives within the impenetrable fortress of the Hegemon Canada does not fight its own wars, Canada only fights other people's wars except in one case, which was the Northwest Rebellion of 1885 thus if Canada needs a military on its own behalf, that would only require a Militia & Armed Constabulary which is basically what Canada has now, since the Regular Force is simply the Permanent Militia of 1885 You’re not wrong but it is possible to earn leverage with the Hegemon. One can choose a policy of being complete dependence upon the Hegemon, or a policy of as little dependence on the Hegemon as possible. The latter grants more autonomy and also reduces the size and influence of pro-Hegemon factions and interest groups within the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: You’re not wrong but it is possible to earn leverage with the Hegemon. that doesn't require Canada to be massively armed all the Hegemon requires of Canada is to remain in lockstep with American foreign policy and to fly the flag in the coalition of the willing with token forces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: . One can choose a policy of being complete dependence upon the Hegemon, or a policy of as little dependence on the Hegemon as possible. option B in Canada's case would yield rapidly diminishing returns Canada instead has always filled niche capabilities, which would yield maximum return it's not so much how many weapons Canada buys so long as Canada buys American the Canadian defence strategy is not about fielding independent operational forces it's all about integrating with the American Military Industrial Complex because strategically, Canada's survival strategy is to integrate with the American economy & markets writ large Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 28 Report Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: The latter grants more autonomy and also reduces the size and influence of pro-Hegemon factions and interest groups within the country the expeditionary force model doesn't grant autonomy, it breeds dependence Canada only deploys overseas by plugging into the US military as auxiliaries the force is not tailored to defend Canada and has no logistics tail to do so the more you render unto American Caesar, the less autonomous you become contrary to be less influenced by the Hegemon, the Canadian Forces desire to act in the interests of the Pentagon we are brothers in arm with American forces more than we are with our own unmartial population Sua sponte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 On 1/27/2023 at 9:08 PM, Dougie93 said: those arguments have never worked reason being, everyone knows that Canada is an American proxy and the Canadian Forces are inherently subordinate to Washington therein only the Hegemons have foreign policies only the Hegemons have full control over their sovereignty an attack on a proxy is the Hegemons problem Canada lives within the impenetrable fortress of the Hegemon Canada does not fight its own wars, Canada only fights other people's wars except in one case, which was the Northwest Rebellion of 1885 thus if Canada needs a military on its own behalf, that would only require a Militia & Armed Constabulary which is basically what Canada has now, since the Regular Force is simply the Permanent Militia of 1885 I think everyone will agree that US military forces give us the protection we need to keep the world at bay. And as a nation we have taken advantage of that and cashed in on those peace bonds big time to the point right now were our entire security apparatus is in jeopardy or considered extremely weak... If we are indeed a Washington subordinate, we have done a shitty job in keeping our military ready for high intensity warfare. becasue for the most part thats what the US does, when it does flex it's muscles, it is as if we just gave the US the finger, while sitting at the beach drinking those fruity drinks with the little umbrellas in them... And do you really think that the US is going to let Canada with just have a small militia and armed constabulary, if we are truly a Washington subordinate, in my opinion, Washington gave up on us a long time ago and is polite about it. We as a nation think we are bigger than we really are, when in fact we are not even at the same table. There have been times when we have used our sovereignty and said "no" to the US war machine, Vietnam, Iraq, Germany and later Afghanistan or place ridiculous restrictions on the use of our military forces Bosnia, Kosovo. Which plays a huge role in how our allies see us or for that matter trust us. Canada is done fight wars, if it does not modernize it's forces, and if we were smart we would donate the entire thing to Ukraine, and start over or just roll over and play dead.... Today our politicians are more than willing to deploy our military to globally without a second thought, to safety of our troops, they simply don't care nor are they willing to get educated on military matters. they simple say go... we stand to attention and say yes sir... and when we fill enough body bags or they get tired of going to ramp ceremonies they bring us home... Every soldier that died on my watch i sat down and analyzed every detail about their deaths, was it bad orders, bad tactics, bad execution, could have something been done to have a different outcome...and 90 % of those deaths could have been prevented with newer and better equipment... Every dog and pony show the politicians came over for they would ask Is there anything we can do for you... there was always hands up, yes get us better equipment...it was so bad that the chain of command would say before any event NO asking for better equipment, it is simply not going to happen... Our job was not to ask why , it was to do and die...and we got good at it...Because our nation did not want to spend the dollars required to give us a fighting chance on coming home to see our families and still today with things in much worse shape they are still telling soldiers to STFU about new equipment...So they are doing the only thing they can do...leave in droves...not becasue they don't love this nation, but becasue the nation does not love them, nor are they willing to open up their wallets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 24 minutes ago, Army Guy said: If we are indeed a Washington subordinate, we have done a shitty job in keeping our military ready for high intensity warfare. becasue for the most part thats what the US does, when it does flex it's muscles, it is as if we just gave the US the finger, while sitting at the beach drinking those fruity drinks with the little umbrellas in them... because Canada & America were sworn enemies the fear & loathing of America is deeply ingrained in Canada's underlying British Victorian culture the Government of Canada is not invoking Russia nor China as a threat to Canada the Government of Canada has just said that the Americans are the threat the American Republicans are coming to overthrow the Government, says the Prime Minister so according to Canada, the threat looks less like Stalingrad 1942 and more like Ridgeway 1866 Victoria Regina Imperatrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 38 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Every dog and pony show the politicians came over for they would ask Is there anything we can do for you... there was always hands up, yes get us better equipment...it was so bad that the chain of command would say before any event NO asking for better equipment, it is simply not going to happen... the LAV6 & TAPV are perfectly suited for crushing protests in the streets and assisting the police in rounding up large swathes of the dissident population on false or trumped up charges that's all these politicians in Ottawa are concerned with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 On 1/8/2023 at 11:59 AM, Aristides said: I don't think that is peculiar to Trudeau. It’s obviously not. The problems go back decades. We see ourselves as a long way from any front lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: It’s obviously not. The problems go back decades. We see ourselves as a long way from any front lines. It is hard not to point at Justin he has had the keys to the kingdom for 8 plus years now and has really done very little to fix any problem with the military except try to change it's culture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 5 hours ago, Army Guy said: It is hard not to point at Justin he has had the keys to the kingdom for 8 plus years now and has really done very little to fix any problem with the military except try to change it's culture... Who was the last PM who did a really good job on this? No recent names spring to my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Canada top soldier voices concern over strength of Canadian military | Watch (msn.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 18 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Who was the last PM who did a really good job on this? No recent names spring to my mind. Your right this has been going on for decades, but Justin is in power now, and has been for the last 8 years, just becasue everyone takes a pass on military spending does not make it right... what would make it right is a referendum on the topic, first educate them on what it is that our military does for this country everyday... then put it to a vote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 On 1/30/2023 at 4:34 PM, Army Guy said: Your right this has been going on for decades, but Justin is in power now, and has been for the last 8 years, just becasue everyone takes a pass on military spending does not make it right... what would make it right is a referendum on the topic, first educate them on what it is that our military does for this country everyday... then put it to a vote... I suspect you wouldn't like the result of such a vote. You can't force people to get educated on anything. We can look at what happened with the vaccines... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, Moonbox said: I suspect you wouldn't like the result of such a vote. You can't force people to get educated on anything. We can look at what happened with the vaccines... It is not about what i want, it's about giving support to men and women who signed up to do the job, only to find out later in their careers that the equipment they will be using in battle is sub par, and our nation clearly does not think their life's are worth the effort.. And your probably right i would not like the result, and i can live with that as long as they can. Your right you can't force them to learn anything, but they could use todays social media to spread the truth about the 5 W's that our military does and what state it is in today, and finally what are the consequences are going to be if we do get rid of our military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 (edited) 23 hours ago, Army Guy said: It is not about what i want, it's about giving support to men and women who signed up to do the job, only to find out later in their careers that the equipment they will be using in battle is sub par, and our nation clearly does not think their life's are worth the effort.. And your probably right i would not like the result, and i can live with that as long as they can. Your right you can't force them to learn anything, but they could use todays social media to spread the truth about the 5 W's that our military does and what state it is in today, and finally what are the consequences are going to be if we do get rid of our military. but who is actually saying that the military is not in disastrous shape ? the mainstream media reports as much with regularity the Liberals have been saying that the military is in a crisis since they got elected the CDS has stated that the military is in crisis the problem is not that the people are unaware of the situtation the problem is that military's can only take so much dysfunction, before they collapse into a state beyond repair $21 billion a year is a lot of money, that's a huge defence budget for a nation of only 38 million people Canada spends more on defence than Israel, Turkey, the Netherlands & Spain yet the vast majority of Canadians would say that the government should spend even more so the thing that they are not realizing, is that the institution is now so broken at the fundamental level, that simply throwing money at it cannot fix it in actual fact, the military cannot even spend the money it is being given now the military cannot even run the programs anymore to spend the money on the military actually returns money to the treasury every year unspent as a result it's like a fire hose of money being pumped into the military, which is not even able to ingest it the infrastructure by which the military would process money into capability; itself has collapsed take for example armoured vehicles the government under Stephen Harper already tried to buy them for the army the Close Combat Vehicle was authorized and paid for it was actually the army itself which said it could not accept them because they simply do not have the logistics to support another armoured platform besides the LAV this is also how the Leopard 2's have fallen into disrepair the army didn't have the infrastructure to support them so the tanks were simply left out in the fields to rot this is a military that can barely manage to buy a few thousands pistols or even new uniforms for the troops if things are that dire, then clearly integrating an entirely new fleet of armoured vehicles is well beyond their means the only exception is if the military can process the money through the Pentagon if the military is allowed to plug into programs run by the Pentagon, give the money to the Americans then the Americans can supply the capability as a turnkey solution so the military could have F-35 for example, because the Americans run the program for Canada this however is obviously not popular with a government & populace who actually fear & loathe the Americans, deeply ingrained in the culture but this is where Canada is at, after decades of wearing the military down where if you have to buy something from Canada, even something as simple as new uniforms that's not likely to happen, or it will take decades to happen at best meanwhile you could end up with a few dozen American warplanes, being flown by Canadians Canada doesn't even have to train the pilots, that is all done in America, included in the price the government swore up and down that they would never buy the "Yanqui F-35" but turns out F-35 is one of the only things that they could actually buy, now that they want to spend this is why the RCAF tends to get all the new kit because the things the RCAF operates, like Chinook, Hercules, Globemaster, F-35, P-8, etc these are all American run programs which Canada is able to piggyback itself upon but if Canada tries to run its own programs, like building warships in Canada those sorts of pipe dreams inevitably collapse under their own weight it's questionable that Canada could even buy major warships built offshore because the Harper government wanted to buy the Mistral LHD's from France but they were told that the navy simply didn't have the sailors to crew them they would just end up docked in Halifax, with the navy unable to support them the only way the navy is even able to run its own emergency acquisition of one supply ship is that the ship is a commercial vessel crewed & maintained by civilians any platform which can be run by agencies other than DND is plausibly feasible but if it has to be run through DND, then the program will simply fail to launch in the first place at the end of the day, even the LAV's are an American program the only reason the army has the LAV's, is that it is all part of the American Stryker program GDLS-C would not be able to keep the program running, if it was only 650 vehicles used by Canada for Canada to be able to maintain its small fleet of LAV's going forward thousands of them had to be bought by the Americans & Saudis for Canada to have a supply chain it's ironic that Canadians are want to trash the Victoria class submarines as being a disaster when that is in fact one of the very few successes the subs are one of only a handful of programs which Canada has been running by its own means people want to get rid of the subs, but they won't get anything to replace them so the navy is desperately trying to stave off retirement of one of their few operational assets anything the government decides to get rid of now, is gone forever, the capability loss is permanent all war is logistics in the end : Canada's logistical capacity is in systemic collapse across the board there is a threshold of degradation beyond which military's cannot recover this is how military's are defeated in the end, in a war but Canada has crossed the threshold in peacetime to wit, Canada has defeated itself, nary a shot fired apparently you can only operate in la la land for so long, entirely protected by the Americans before your capacity to run your own sovereign military collapses by sheer neglect it sort of reminds one of South Vietnam the Americans doing everything for South Vietnam, until South Vietnam couldn't do anything for itself Canada has even fallen to the Communists now, Marxism destroying every institution in its wake the only military priority of the Government of Canada now being Stalinist purges of the chain of command to root out any dissent from Vice Admiral Norman to Lt. General Maisonneuve any officer who does the slightest thing to defy the government dismantling its own military is quickly erased from the public discourse by the government and its lapdog propaganda arm media while the government appoints Commissars to ceaselessly "investigate" the military for being "Nazis" thus I would suggest, that at this point, a lack of military hardware is the least of our problems in fact, the Government of Canada has become such a totalitarian lunatic asylum now that the less military they have at their disposal, the better as it has become quite obvious, that what the Government of Canada desires now is a Red Army which could be turned against its own citizens when the Government is musing about unleashing main battle tanks against peaceful protests be thankful that their tanks are too broken down to carry out those orders Edited February 2 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 5 hours ago, Dougie93 said: but who is actually saying that the military is not in disastrous shape ? the mainstream media reports as much with regularity the Liberals have been saying that the military is in a crisis since they got elected the CDS has stated that the military is in crisis the problem is not that the people are unaware of the situtation the problem is that military's can only take so much dysfunction, before they collapse into a state beyond repair $21 billion a year is a lot of money, that's a huge defence budget for a nation of only 38 million people Canada spends more on defence than Israel, Turkey, the Netherlands & Spain yet the vast majority of Canadians would say that the government should spend even more so the thing that they are not realizing, is that the institution is now so broken at the fundamental level, that simply throwing money at it cannot fix it in actual fact, the military cannot even spend the money it is being given now the military cannot even run the programs anymore to spend the money on the military actually returns money to the treasury every year unspent as a result it's like a fire hose of money being pumped into the military, which is not even able to ingest it the infrastructure by which the military would process money into capability; itself has collapsed take for example armoured vehicles the government under Stephen Harper already tried to buy them for the army the Close Combat Vehicle was authorized and paid for it was actually the army itself which said it could not accept them because they simply do not have the logistics to support another armoured platform besides the LAV this is also how the Leopard 2's have fallen into disrepair the army didn't have the infrastructure to support them so the tanks were simply left out in the fields to rot this is a military that can barely manage to buy a few thousands pistols or even new uniforms for the troops if things are that dire, then clearly integrating an entirely new fleet of armoured vehicles is well beyond their means the only exception is if the military can process the money through the Pentagon if the military is allowed to plug into programs run by the Pentagon, give the money to the Americans then the Americans can supply the capability as a turnkey solution so the military could have F-35 for example, because the Americans run the program for Canada this however is obviously not popular with a government & populace who actually fear & loathe the Americans, deeply ingrained in the culture but this is where Canada is at, after decades of wearing the military down where if you have to buy something from Canada, even something as simple as new uniforms that's not likely to happen, or it will take decades to happen at best meanwhile you could end up with a few dozen American warplanes, being flown by Canadians Canada doesn't even have to train the pilots, that is all done in America, included in the price the government swore up and down that they would never buy the "Yanqui F-35" but turns out F-35 is one of the only things that they could actually buy, now that they want to spend this is why the RCAF tends to get all the new kit because the things the RCAF operates, like Chinook, Hercules, Globemaster, F-35, P-8, etc these are all American run programs which Canada is able to piggyback itself upon but if Canada tries to run its own programs, like building warships in Canada those sorts of pipe dreams inevitably collapse under their own weight it's questionable that Canada could even buy major warships built offshore because the Harper government wanted to buy the Mistral LHD's from France but they were told that the navy simply didn't have the sailors to crew them they would just end up docked in Halifax, with the navy unable to support them the only way the navy is even able to run its own emergency acquisition of one supply ship is that the ship is a commercial vessel crewed & maintained by civilians any platform which can be run by agencies other than DND is plausibly feasible but if it has to be run through DND, then the program will simply fail to launch in the first place at the end of the day, even the LAV's are an American program the only reason the army has the LAV's, is that it is all part of the American Stryker program GDLS-C would not be able to keep the program running, if it was only 650 vehicles used by Canada for Canada to be able to maintain its small fleet of LAV's going forward thousands of them had to be bought by the Americans & Saudis for Canada to have a supply chain it's ironic that Canadians are want to trash the Victoria class submarines as being a disaster when that is in fact one of the very few successes the subs are one of only a handful of programs which Canada has been running by its own means people want to get rid of the subs, but they won't get anything to replace them so the navy is desperately trying to stave off retirement of one of their few operational assets anything the government decides to get rid of now, is gone forever, the capability loss is permanent all war is logistics in the end : Canada's logistical capacity is in systemic collapse across the board there is a threshold of degradation beyond which military's cannot recover this is how military's are defeated in the end, in a war but Canada has crossed the threshold in peacetime to wit, Canada has defeated itself, nary a shot fired apparently you can only operate in la la land for so long, entirely protected by the Americans before your capacity to run your own sovereign military collapses by sheer neglect it sort of reminds one of South Vietnam the Americans doing everything for South Vietnam, until South Vietnam couldn't do anything for itself Canada has even fallen to the Communists now, Marxism destroying every institution in its wake the only military priority of the Government of Canada now being Stalinist purges of the chain of command to root out any dissent from Vice Admiral Norman to Lt. General Maisonneuve any officer who does the slightest thing to defy the government dismantling its own military is quickly erased from the public discourse by the government and its lapdog propaganda arm media while the government appoints Commissars to ceaselessly "investigate" the military for being "Nazis" thus I would suggest, that at this point, a lack of military hardware is the least of our problems in fact, the Government of Canada has become such a totalitarian lunatic asylum now that the less military they have at their disposal, the better as it has become quite obvious, that what the Government of Canada desires now is a Red Army which could be turned against its own citizens when the Government is musing about unleashing main battle tanks against peaceful protests be thankful that their tanks are too broken down to carry out those orders It's funney you ask WHO has been saying our military is in good shape... you said the liberals know and have said our military is in rough shape and yet it is them that stuck up their hands and said Yes we will expand our battle group in Latvia to a full brigade with Canada making a large contribution to that.. not counting volunteering additional Naval assets to the pacific. with troops still in Iraq, and Poland, along with a Airforce contingent in Poland... One has to ask if we are in rough shape why are we sticking our hands up. And while the budget is 21 bil, not all of that is available to DND, DND has other responsibilities like emergency preparedness, plus other monies that fund other operations for other departments, fisheries patrols, drug interdiction, etc etc... on top of all that most of that funding is going into pay checks, and O&M repairing old shit with 550 cord and gun tape...And while it does seem like a huge bowl of money we are one of the highest paid soldiers...something that other countries don't have to do like turkey, or Israel which has a large portion of their defense budget donated by the US government every year... Returning funding back to the government is becasue of the way our fiscal policy is set up, if you can't use it in a year you turn it back in, so lack of poor policy and lack of leadership, we spend like crack whores near the end of the fiscal year... instead of making long term purchases in the beginning of the year...These policies need to be changed along with our purchasing policies... CCV project was a huge failure, on both sides of the fence , that funding that was put aside was spent on something else...and our logistics tail can handle more than we give them credit for, however if your not going to fund parts properly or on a purchase enough then sure your going to have problems...The military can not run on just on time like civilian street does, there is no Canadian tire in Afghanistan... There are major problems with DND for sure and all of it needs to be over hauled, but it can be done, it is not mission imposable. we as a nation have climbed bigger obstacles.. a large part of me wants it to fail, to show the ungrateful Canadians what they had and what it is going to cost to get it back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 On 2/2/2023 at 5:30 PM, Army Guy said: There are major problems with DND for sure and all of it needs to be over hauled, but it can be done, it is not mission imposable. we as a nation have climbed bigger obstacles.. the Vimy Myth the stalwart defence of the Ypres Salient against all odds the catastrophe of the Somme Offensive the reformation at Vimy Ridge to the triumph of the Hundred Days Second Ypres to Mons Numquam Culpam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 4 hours ago, Dougie93 said: the Vimy Myth the stalwart defence of the Ypres Salient against all odds the catastrophe of the Somme Offensive the reformation at Vimy Ridge to the triumph of the Hundred Days Second Ypres to Mons Numquam Culpam All of those examples came at a cost, Canadian lives, and a lot of them, i can not fathom the combat losses they took and remained able to function, i mean when we lost a lav full of guys to an IED it nearly shut all of us down...i can not even think of how the Royal Newfoundland Regt felt like after Beaumont Hamell, it would rip your sole out... But they seemed to over come everything they where thrown against.. they set the bar pretty Freaking high...we as a nation could atleast learn from our mistakes, and not have to throw lives away because we are cheap... when it is time life's will be thrown around plenty enough...without having to start the dance with cheap ass equipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 10 hours ago, Army Guy said: All of those examples came at a cost, Canadian lives, and a lot of them, i can not fathom the combat losses they took and remained able to function, i mean when we lost a lav full of guys to an IED it nearly shut all of us down...i can not even think of how the Royal Newfoundland Regt felt like after Beaumont Hamell, it would rip your sole out... But they seemed to over come everything they where thrown against.. they set the bar pretty Freaking high...we as a nation could atleast learn from our mistakes, and not have to throw lives away because we are cheap... when it is time life's will be thrown around plenty enough...without having to start the dance with cheap ass equipment this was the crucible which created an distinct & independent Canadian military the myth is that the Canadian Corps forged the nation itself upon Vimy Ridge the Canadian Corps displayed the distinct characteristics of the Canadians the Canadians did not subscribe to the British class system the Canadians demanded professionalism, leaders who knew how to do the job the Canadians were fitter, stronger, more resilient, from living & working in the Canadian wilderness the Canadians were innovators, entrepreneurial, trying to figure out new tactics, techniques & technology the Canadian method of warfare, led by Currie, was about meticulous preparation, rehearsal & attention to detail and every single man, down to the lowest ranks knowing the entire plan and the Canadians were in a hurry, as they could not go home on leave like the British so if the Canadians were to ever see Canada again, they would have to win the war themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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