Federal Carbon Charge

[Boges]

58 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Huh...

Son, you can file it right where the sun don't shine for all I care.

You cannot name one thing your ilk has done, that produces a benefit to anyone. All you do is destroy things.

BTW...I have 3 children in their 20's. Thank Gawd none of them are as inhumane...or is it inhuman...as you are.

Another post full of useless hyperbole. 

It's inhuman to care about the environment and not advocate for unrestricted pollution. GOTCHA!!!! 

Poor me, I'm being disincentivized to pollute more. Muh Freedom!!!! Pathetic. 

[Boges]

The ones that can afford Carbon pricing the least are also the first to be victims of Extreme weather caused by Climate Change. 

It's not the poor that have huge carbon footprints that are being  curtailed, it's those that want to pollute with impunity. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Boges

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Perhaps, but the rational talk gets suffocated by the stupidity on both sides.  The knee-jerk reaction for either is to point to the extremes.

Natural gas and nuclear plants are two rational solutions, but even THOSE get protested (again, by both sides).  The Karens and Kens wet their beds at the prospect of coal plants being shut down and energy costs going up marginally, and the tree huggers go apeshit at the thought of natural gas because it's another (albeit massively cleaner) fossil fuel, or because nuclear waste has a long half-life.  Neither will accept a half-measure.  It's all or nothing, or everyone goes REeeeee!

Question: Who the hell are you and what have you done with Moonbox?

I agree with almost all of this. Contrarian was commenting the other day that he figured the political spectrum isn't a line, but a circle with the worst of both sides meeting at the very bottom where authoritarianism exists. I have said that for a long time now. The "bottom feeders" need to be marginalized...as had been the norm up until about 6 years ago.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Another post full of useless hyperbole. 

It's inhuman to care about the environment and not advocate for unrestricted pollution. GOTCHA!!!! 

Poor me, I'm being disincentivized to pollute more. Muh Freedom!!!! Pathetic. 

I never said unrestricted but...such is the horse kaka of...you know...your ilk.

[myata]

Think about it: we can have only one of the two governments, one or the two, two or the one, red or blue or the other way around, ever, forever. That's how the system was envisioned, set up from day one and no meaningful change is possible, "such a can of worms" you know (like, you do).

Next, any one of those can get you pay a charge for some good reason and as always, for your own good. Great.

And for the last step, they will collect a tax on it, "goods and services" makes sense, no? You asked for a sense, reason, here: "as with", should be good enough for the peasants. And from this new great (and bottomless) source of revenue, pay themselves salaries, pensions, allowances, entitlements etc as always, one strong and lasting tradition, from day one.

And you will have no word in that, red or blue is the only allowed answer. Is it Kafka already, or how close?

Why do we need a tax on a federal charge? Is it, plain and simple, tax grab (because they can)?

Edited January 12, 2023 by myata

[Boges]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Why do we need a tax on a federal charge? Is it, plain and simple, tax grab (because they can)?

Well it seems from the posters here that people won't considering kicking their fossil fuel addiction unless lightly encouraged. 

If Fuel-efficiency isn't a concern when purchasing a new vehicle or appliance. . . it should be. 

[myata]

48 minutes ago, Boges said:

Well it seems

Exactly. The art of political bs at its best. Why even notice questions and come up with meaningful substantial answers if we can just so. See? Q.E.D.

[Zeitgeist]

19 hours ago, Boges said:

Another post full of useless hyperbole. 

It's inhuman to care about the environment and not advocate for unrestricted pollution. GOTCHA!!!! 

Poor me, I'm being disincentivized to pollute more. Muh Freedom!!!! Pathetic. 

You illustrate the typical shoot yourself in the foot, I can’t think for myself and need the state to punish me attitude in Canada.  Carbon taxes are perfect for stupid naive people.  In fact, take away their cars and central heating.  Don’t allow them to have kids.  Stop them from eating meat.  Ban heterosexuality.  Anything to reduce the carbon footprint of humans.  Canadians are probably willing to swallow all this oppression.  Paying these extra taxes that make no measurable difference to climate change makes you a good person though.  Why?  The gubernment tells me so.  Lol.  

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You illustrate the typical shoot yourself in the foot, I can’t think for myself and need the state to punish me attitude in Canada.  Carbon taxes are perfect for stupid naive people.  In fact, take away their cars and central heating.  Don’t allow them to have kids.  Stop them from eating meat.  Ban heterosexuality.  Anything to reduce the carbon footprint of humans.  Canadians are probably willing to swallow all this oppression.  Paying these extra taxes that make no measurable difference to climate change makes you a good person though.  Why?  The gubernment tells me so.  Lol.  

Slippery Slope arguments are always the most persuasive. ?

 

[Zeitgeist]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

Slippery Slope arguments are always the most persuasive. ?

 

Carbon taxes are for stupid suckers.

[Boges]

33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Carbon taxes are for stupid suckers.

Such persuasive rhetoric. 

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

Such persuasive rhetoric. 

Stupid is as stupid does.  Not even the US Democrats would inflict these costs on the American people.  The cost of living is high enough.  A slave, hive mentality is now prevalent in Canada.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Boges]

35 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Stupid is as stupid does.  Not even the US Democrats would inflict these costs on the American people.  The cost of living is high enough.  A slave, hive mentality is now prevalent in Canada.  

And every other developed nation in the world. 

Many US states do have a price for Carbon. American Right-Wingers seem to be the only viable political faction left that doesn't accept that air pollution should be free. 

[Zeitgeist]

31 minutes ago, Boges said:

And every other developed nation in the world. 

Many US states do have a price for Carbon. American Right-Wingers seem to be the only viable political faction left that doesn't accept that air pollution should be free. 

Typical communist central-planning thinking.  You’re so lost to the radical left.  Stop pretending to be conservative.

You do realize that by definition your existence is at the expense of the environment and impacts climate change.  Carbon tax is existence tax.  We need heat and food to exist and shouldn’t have to pay a surcharge for meeting our basic needs to survive.

Carbon taxes are for extremely stupid suckers.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Boges]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Typical communist central-planning thinking.  You’re so lost to the radical left.  Stop pretending to be conservative.

You do realize that by definition your existence is at the expense of the environment and impacts climate change.  Carbon tax is existence tax.  We need heat and food to exist and shouldn’t have to pay a surcharge for meeting our basic needs to survive.

Carbon taxes are for extremely stupid suckers.

So high and mighty and yet on an Island. 

I'll repeat, Putting a price on Carbon Emissions is pretty much the norm in the Developed world. 

So I guess the entire Western World is stupid. Except Right-Wingers who overwhelming represent poor and uneducated parts of the world. 

[myata]

Seriously, can someone explain why there has to be a tax on a federal charge? Should there be any limits on the number of government charges, and the amount of taxes for any given item? Just curious. I'm I the only one here... is there anybody out there?

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, Boges said:

So high and mighty and yet on an Island. 

I'll repeat, Putting a price on Carbon Emissions is pretty much the norm in the Developed world. 

So I guess the entire Western World is stupid. Except Right-Wingers who overwhelming represent poor and uneducated parts of the world. 

I’m not even right-wing.  Unverifiable expensive solutions to unverifiable problems.  

[Boges]

25 minutes ago, myata said:

Seriously, can someone explain why there has to be a tax on a federal charge? Should there be any limits on the number of government charges, and the amount of taxes for any given item? Just curious. I'm I the only one here... is there anybody out there?

It's not really a tax on a charge. More like a tax on the price of the good after the charge. 

 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Unverifiable expensive solutions to unverifiable problems.  

1) It's not all that expensive.

2)The price of Energy currently is more a reflection of Oil production lagging behind Post-COVID economic activity and Putin deciding to invade Ukraine forcing Western Europe to try and boycott Russian Energy. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Boges

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

1) It's not all that expensive.

2)The price of Energy currently is more a reflection of Oil production lagging behind Post-COVID economic activity and Putin deciding to invade Ukraine forcing Western Europe to try and boycott Russian Energy. 

It’s expensive at a time of expensive energy and goods.  

[Boges]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s expensive at a time of expensive energy and goods.  

In Ontario, the PC government has suspended collection of their gas tax for at least this year. It amounts to about 6 cents/litre. 

But as myata points out, they still get to collect Sales tax on the inflated price. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Boges

[myata]

18 hours ago, Boges said:

More like a tax on the price of the good after the charge.

Wow, really! And difference being?

If I can set charges arbitrarily what would be the essential difference between "tax on the price" and "plain and obvious tax grab"?

Why should "goods and services" tax apply to government charges and taxes? Who forgot the meaning of plain English words here? Who's looking and anybody interested, anymore?

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, myata said:

Wow, really! And difference being?

If I can set charges arbitrarily what would be the essential difference between "tax on the price" and "plain and obvious tax grab"?

Why should "goods and services" tax apply to government charges and taxes? Who forgot the meaning of plain English words here? Who's looking and anybody interested, anymore?

When you buy something that has certain surcharges, like say installation, do they add the HST to the sub-total or the price after all the addition? 

There are things that are exempt from Sales Taxes like groceries. I don't think pollution would quality. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Boges

[myata]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

When you buy something that has certain surcharges, like say installation,

What an amazing naivite at its best! So a technician getting out of bed, coming your way actually working doing something useful and real, physical; and a government slamming a charge on paper, here, done! is one and the same thing? "Value added" and service provided, matter closed? Easy?

Amazing that someone is bold enough to say that and the rest, swallowing it silently and thoughtlessly. What will happen to a product in the market if the merchant thought to add too much value, this way? And for the happy government "services", what are the limits, reasonable or otherwise on how much "value" can be added this way, and the taxes you would have to pay on it, because it makes so much sense? Or have we just invented the ultimate cash cow, for the governments?

It's exactly because of combination of the two, someone being bold enough to claim such nonsense in broad daylight and public because they know that they won't be called or challenged or even asked to explain; and the populace that couldn't care to ask even most obvious questions of its rulers that the country will end up in the third world, no matter natural riches. Why wouldn't it. Name one reason.

[August1991]

I object to the term "Carbon charge".

It is a CO2 tax, a tax on CO2 - carbon dioxide emissions. (Carbon is not carbon dioxide.)

I also strongly object to the term "climate change".