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myata

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5 minutes ago, August1991 said:

But we Canadians fundamentally accept difference.

Or just don't care (careless) to differentiate between good differences (excellence, advancement, real leadership including technology, sustainability and why not given the natural endowment) from not so productive ones (entitlement, mental laziness, backwardness, carefree lets just have a beer attitude etc)? So how do we know, without some independent, objective criteria?

What if Russia came tomorrow? How would we do?

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8 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Protestant English Canadians voted for a Catholic French Canadian

What does it do? What is the result? Did it make the country modern and advanced? Did it make living more affordable for young families? Did it add technical advancement, effectiveness and efficiency to public services? To Canadian Army? What if Russia came tomorrow?

We can wet our eyes and pat ourselves on the shoulder (like right hand on the left shoulder) but what does it do - in reality?

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20 minutes ago, myata said:

What does it do? What is the result? Did it make the country modern and advanced? Did it make living more affordable for young families? Did it add technical advancement, effectiveness and efficiency to public services?

....

In Canada, we have a long history of French Catholics voting for an English Protestant politician -rather than voting tribal.

Obama? You Americans voted tribally. About 95% of Black Americans voted for Obama.

In Canada, we don't do that.

====

What does it do?

I think we Canadians have a more civilised society than you Americans.

On average, true, you are richer, have more stuff, better health care. But I like the change of seasons. 

Edited by August1991
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22 minutes ago, August1991 said:

But I like the change of seasons. 

That point cannot be argued. One can always find an angle, reason or excuse to explain and justify the status quo. It's a matter of personal perspective. And from another, political time in Canada is grinding to a halt: nothing new is happening and hasn't happened for a looooong time. And maybe social too. I mean in the real, not self praising great talking domain. And the time, the objective, physical and social one never stopped.

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58 minutes ago, myata said:

What does it do? What is the result?

....

Myata, I have also thought about this.

=====

Unless we screw this up, a society like Canada (America) is the future.

Japan (China) is not the future. In the future, more people will travel, transact. More women will meet men, and men meet women.

No foreigner wants to live permanently in Singapore or Dubai. They want a US or Australian passport. 

Edited by August1991
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2 hours ago, August1991 said:

In the future, more people will travel, transact.

Where, in Canada? In small, gas-powered private cars? Turkey has high speed trains. It really helps to step out and look what's actually happening in the reality.

We can't have anything done anymore. Only look in the mirror and let out a tear how we used to be. And it's been for a while like that already. Only how would we notice?

Edited by myata
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17 hours ago, myata said:

Where, in Canada? In small, gas-powered private cars? Turkey has high speed trains. It really helps to step out and look what's actually happening in the reality.

We can't have anything done anymore. Only look in the mirror and let out a tear how we used to be. And it's been for a while like that already. Only how would we notice?

That’s the truth of the matter.  It’s one thing for Canada to consistently take the left-wing socialist policy menu, but we can’t even do that right.  Where are the high speed trains?  Where is our value-add high tech manufacturing? Where is the quality of life that we claim is better than the Americans have?  People here have to work in second and third jobs to be able to afford a home.  That home is getting smaller. Our transportation, food, and energy costs are rising fast.   Our infrastructure is aging and insufficient to meet the needs of our major cities.  The southern edge of Canada feels as packed as Belgium and we’re developing over our best land, yet when we intensify our growth in narrow corridors we get vertical sprawl.  The growth has to happen in the north, but who wants to move to colder areas where it’s getting harder to develop our resources?

It feels very much like Canada is relying on its past glories to attract immigrants for no clear reason.  What will adding millions of immigrants do to improve living conditions?  Is it just about filling jobs after people retire? There’s no vision driving our policies and what kind of country we want to have.  There’s no discussion about goals.  Where’s the beauty, joy, opportunity, creativity?  If anything we are more divided and have less confidence in the value of Canada as a nation-state, because the federal government seems only to favour certain Canadians and certain provinces.  Any moves to take advantage of our strengths are usually portrayed as anti-environment or colonialist.

Our federal government has failed to represent national interests and all Canadians, in my opinion, but of course half the country supports this government.  This period feels like stagnation or even regression.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

but of course half the country supports this government.  This period feels like stagnation or even regression.

In the post democracy age it's really hard to tell. If you use mass propaganda to scare half of the population into pushing a button for you, does it mean that they support or you manipulate? Who knows.

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1 hour ago, myata said:

In the post democracy age it's really hard to tell. If you use mass propaganda to scare half of the population into pushing a button for you, does it mean that they support or you manipulate? Who knows.

Well in order to discuss things like facts, truth, and well-informed opinion, one has to believe that such things exist and are attainable. One must also believe it’s possible to establish a critical distance from one’s cultural influences.  That last point is tricky.  We’re all products of environment and genetics.  Even those factors can influence each other.  Political point of view is shaped by our ethics, experience, beliefs, strengths, weaknesses, so many things. It’s hard to know what drives us.  It always has been, but in the Information Age so much is about how our thoughts are shaped by ideas and persuasion.  The state and media can influence us a great deal.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well in order to discuss things like facts, truth, and well-informed opinion, one has to believe that such things exist and are attainable.

There's no question that massive continuous propaganda (Covid-scare is a good example) will affect large majority of population. By now, tested and established scientific fact. Non accountable governments will have their way with the population, with sufficient time and desire, a direct logical conclusion.

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On 12/1/2022 at 8:05 AM, myata said:

Where, in Canada? In small, gas-powered private cars?

.....

Myata, you ask a rich person's question.

It is as if you asked in 1890, "But what will we do with all the horseshit?"

====

My point: In the future, unless we screw this up, individuals will be more free to choose.

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On 12/8/2022 at 10:41 AM, myata said:

...

What future? We just cannot have anything real done anymore.

In 1910 or so, many people in Europe believed that all was sustainable.

In 1850, many northern Americans thought their life was normal.

===

In Europe, wars happen every generation or so.

Asia? Mao and Cambodia.

I like America, the New World.

Edited by August1991
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On 12/2/2022 at 1:32 AM, Zeitgeist said:

... It’s one thing for Canada to consistently take the left-wing socialist policy menu, but we can’t even do that right.  Where are the high speed trains?  Where is our value-add high tech manufacturing? 

....

It feels very much like Canada is relying on its past glories to attract immigrants for no clear reason.  What will adding millions of immigrants do to improve living conditions?  Is it just about filling jobs after people retire? There’s no vision driving our policies and what kind of country we want to have.  There’s no discussion about goals.  Where’s the beauty, joy, opportunity, creativity?

===

 If anything we are more divided and have less confidence in the value of Canada as a nation-state, because the federal government seems only to favour certain Canadians and certain provinces.  Any moves to take advantage of our strengths are usually portrayed as anti-environment or colonialist.

 

1. We are building various projects. In Montreal, there is the REM. Agreed, it should be faster.

2. Agreed. House prices are rising because of our successful society. In Canada, we have lots of space - and we're good at making foreigners civilised.

3. True, we are divided. But we Canadians have shown to the world that we decide our differences in a civilised manner.

=====

René Lévesque, quel homme d'Etat, Pierre Trudeau - a mere philosophe. 

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We can dream as long and as far as we like... as long as there's no connection to the reality.

Stable democratic countries make a minuscule fraction among the new arrivals to Canada. Where will the democracy go?

Price of a two-bedroom apartment (factual): over $2,000 monthly. Cannot be sustained for a single median income family. Let's call this "successful", why shouldn't we? Like, what is the connection to the reality of the country, with $180K income (minimum)?

This is directly related to the topic. Policies of detached and disconnected ruling elites create grounds for even more controlled and less democratic population. So for the common good as always and never forgetting themselves they could do anything, including multiple levels of taxes mandatory annual vaccinations and so on. In a couple of decades we may see quite a different country; and democracy. The trajectory may have already been set.

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4 hours ago, myata said:

 

1. Stable democratic countries make a minuscule fraction among the new arrivals to Canada. Where will the democracy go?

2. Price of a two-bedroom apartment (factual): over $2,000 monthly. Cannot be sustained for a single median income family. Let's call this "successful", why shouldn't we? Like, what is the connection to the reality of the country, with $180K income (minimum)?

3. This is directly related to the topic. Policies of detached and disconnected ruling elites create grounds for even more controlled and less democratic population. So for the common good as always and never forgetting themselves they could do anything, including multiple levels of taxes mandatory annual vaccinations and so on. In a couple of decades we may see quite a different country; and democracy. The trajectory may have already been set.

1. Why would people come here for the purpose of dismantling democracy?  What is your source for the miniscule fraction claim?  Why hasn't immigration changed democracy whereas old stock Canadians this year drove to Ottawa and demanded to form a government? Sikh truck drivers were under represented.

2. This is happening globally.  I'm concerned too, but lots of old stock Canadians are making a killing on speculation and gouging.  If you're concerned, the NDP wants rent control returned.

3. "Ruling elites" is baby talk at best or outdated Marxism at worst. And of course the fear mongering, which is often attributed to public health officials is used here to "warn" us for the future.  

 

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I love Canada and as a nationalist, I want what's best for Canada. So what state is best for Canada? IMO...

1. Stable yet "understated" immigration with regulations. 

2. Taking back our mining and manufacturing capabilities. 

3. Promotion of real scientific research into medicine and alternative energy sources and usage.

4. Drastically increased budgets to law, emergency services, medical care.

5. A renewed national effort to promote and honour Canada in our k-12 education system.

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8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why would people come here for the purpose of dismantling democracy?

Or without any understanding or tradition of critical questioning, that they will pass on and that isn't taught in Canadian schools in favor of cohesion and togetherness.

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What is your source for the miniscule fraction claim? 

Much less than 10%, at your fingertips.

 

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why hasn't immigration changed democracy

How would we know? See "free media" (Covid scare), SNC-Lavalin and most recently war emergency measures.

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If you're concerned, the NDP wants rent control returned.

Right, Soviet measures what else?

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"Ruling elites" is baby talk at best or outdated Marxism at worst.

Not in Canada no. The system was made, from day one to cement the status quo and eliminate any meaningful competition. This is only factual, try to prove otherwise.

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On 12/10/2022 at 1:49 AM, August1991 said:

1. We are building various projects. In Montreal, there is the REM. Agreed, it should be faster.

2. Agreed. House prices are rising because of our successful society. In Canada, we have lots of space - and we're good at making foreigners civilised.

3. True, we are divided. But we Canadians have shown to the world that we decide our differences in a civilised manner.

=====

René Lévesque, quel homme d'Etat, Pierre Trudeau - a mere philosophe. 

I’m not especially concerned about making foreigners civilized or even about which cultural groups are coming, though it does have to be recognized that not all cultures are equally supportive of our democratic and cultural traditions (and that should be considered in immigration policy).  I like having many different cultural backgrounds, food, music, etc. in Canada.  I’m asking what the value is of substantially adding to our population when we clearly can’t support the current population with our infrastructure and there’s nothing to compel people to move north.

Basically everyone is crammed into the narrow band along the US border and Great Lakes.  It means we’re paving over scarce arable land and destroying the quality of life for the people who already live here in terms of commute times, home prices, air quality, and general cost of living.  If we had an excellent network of convenient, fast commuter rail lines and the population was more evenly distributed between even the near north and south, I would be more supportive.

Boosting immigration has become a mindless, reckless attempt to grab future voters by making them feel beholden to the state.  All that’s going to come of adding 500,000 immigrants per year is that Greater Toronto and Vancouver will get more expensive and harder to get around.  Our ESL educational supports and social services will continue to be stretched and our social cohesion will be challenged as more people without western democratic traditions try to strip women of rights and lead us to more Chinese hive mentality totalitarian styles of managing large masses of people.  It likely means more surveillance and top-down dictates to manage the unruly masses. It certainly is a threat to individual rights, especially when we see how rights are compromised when our public health system can’t support the population’s health needs in a public health crisis.

The easy to understand and navigate smaller Canada that was laid out in Victorian times is essentially turning into nondescript uniform vertical sprawl and future St. Jamestown ghettos.  How is this desirable?  I understand that some of this is inevitable and we’ll need some immigration to replace our workers.  It certainly makes a mockery of our “climate action plan” if you believe that such plans can make a difference.

For years I’ve believe in a graduated citizenship process that has a northern residential requirement for a minimum number of years.  It would make neglected communities more viable and create a steady supply of labour for northern resource development and manufacturing.  Eventually some of these settlements would take off.  Canada doesn’t have a St. Petersburg.  Our northernmost major city, Edmonton, isn’t very far north considering Canada’s northern reach.

I don’t see much value in building endless walls of condos along the north shore of Lake Ontario or the watershed around Greater Vancouver.  It’s fine to build Hong Kong in the Toronto Port Lands and former industrial lands in places like Hamilton  but erasing the historic charm and character of countless neighborhoods makes Canada less attractive.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Boosting immigration has become a mindless, reckless attempt to grab future voters by making them feel beholden to the state.  

There's a word: runaway effect. And we have a runaway government. It figured out a way, method to achieve almost guaranteed hold on power and with it, along with the default day one design of zero real responsibility, the ability to do pretty much anything without any accountability. Such things may not be cured easily, as the history shows. Good luck to us.

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On 12/10/2022 at 4:29 PM, myata said:

1. Or without any understanding or tradition of critical questioning, that they will pass on and that isn't taught in Canadian schools in favor of cohesion and togetherness.

2. Much less than 10%, at your fingertips.

3. How would we know? See "free media" (Covid scare), SNC-Lavalin and most recently war emergency measures.

4. Right, Soviet measures what else?

5. Not in Canada no. The system was made, from day one to cement the status quo and eliminate any meaningful competition. This is only factual, try to prove otherwise.

1. You didn't answer my question and instead added another uncited assumption into the room.
2. I just provided a cite and even responded above.  "At your fingertips" so have a look.
3. Democracy can withstand getting news from traditional sources and forming a cohesive picture of what is happening.  "Scares" come from all media, right and left.
4. I don't know - what are YOU suggesting then ?
5. "Proof lies with the positive claimant"

Anway, but not reading the numbers in my post you are returned to the ignore list to gather dust with the troll figurines.  Enjoy.

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