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Federal Carbon Charge


myata

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39 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

A good portion of Canadians want just that, cut funding to CAF, police or disband it altogether, they want to use that funding for other social programs to line their own pockets, to a lot of them they are disgusted we spend money on those departments they get no return from. 

And all the pandemic showed Canadians was just how far the taps could be opened up, and their new thirst for more social programs or free money like the cerb.

How many people stood up and question the government about pandemic spending, not very many, most if not all did not even blink at the final number the liberals response was maybe we should slow down a bit, we will only spend almost 100 bil this year alone. Again, no blinks... So ask ourselves do you really think most Canadians care what we are paying for in interest, or if we fault those payments... Want to start a riot tell them they are cutting back on social programs and watch all their heads explode 

That's what government is for. The King and Parliament collect taxes and spend them to provide the people what they want. If the Government did not do what the people want, some would say that is tyranny.

How would you suggest we keep people home during the pandemic without giving them cerb? Would you do what the Chinese do and just lock them in their apartments and weld the doors shut? If the building catches fire...well to heck with them if they can't take a joke. The US didn't do enough to keep people safe in their bubbles and they suffered the worst catastrophe in their history. 47.5 thousand deaths in Canada was a tragedy, but if the government did not react the way they did, we could have lost another 60 thousand people.

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56 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I suggest getting the resources to market before China and Russia, as our resources will likely be so heavily taxed, regulated, and expensive to extract soon that no one will bother.  Already happening.  Just look at pipelines.  Yes it’s all about the money because our government is thoroughly immoral and has no business pushing lifestyle choices on our vulnerable youth.  Government is there to provide the essential unprofitable services and nothing more.  Get government out of the way as much as possible.  They are destroying the country.  

You still haven't mentioned why we should be in such a hurry to sell off our non-renewable resources. They have to be there for future generations, particularly coal and oil. The worst thing you can do with coal and oil is burn it. There are tens of thousands of products that are made from fossil resources. Without lubricating oil, nothing moves. There is no electricity. No rolling transport, no industry. If we use up our oil and coal now, we will be robbing our descendents of life above the Bronze Age. Somebody said in this forum that we only have 188 years of oil reserves left. It took 180 million years to produce the oil and at the rate we are going, we will have used it up in less than 400 years. So much for the rights of the unborn.

Edited by Queenmandy85
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4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You still haven't mentioned why we should be in such a hurry to sell off our non-renewable resources. They have to be there for future generations, particularly coal and oil. The worst thing you can do with coal and oil is burn it. There are tens of thousands of products that are made from fossil resources. Without lubricating oil, nothing moves. There is no electricity. No rolling transport, no industry. If we use up our oil and coal now, we will be robbing our descendents of life above the Bronze Age. Somebody said in this forum that we only have 188 years of oil reserves left. It took 180 million years to produce the oil and at the rate we are going, we will have used it up in less than 400 years. So much for the rights of the unborn.

Don’t be silly.  Sell as much as you can before the radical left shut it down completely.  Already happening.  

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On 11/28/2022 at 7:43 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

So you are saying we should disband the Canadian Armed Forces, close all the hospitals, defund the police and so on. 

We have to see what portion of the government revenues come from HST, income tax, carbon tax, etc.

It is possible all these are a small fraction of the total.

In other words, we are made believe our taxes are paying for healthcare, police, elementary schooling, but it could be something else entirely.

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Don’t be silly.  Sell as much as you can before the radical left shut it down completely.  Already happening.  

You missed the question. What happens to future generations who will need that oil to survive? If we don't give it away or burn it, it will remain for us to draw on as needed well into the future.

For energy, we have only enough uranium to last a couple of centuries, but we only need it to bridge the gap until torium becomes viable. That time frame includes selling it around the world. Unlike oil and coal, it has no other use other than to produce energy.

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10 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You missed the question. What happens to future generations who will need that oil to survive? If we don't give it away or burn it, it will remain for us to draw on as needed well into the future.

For energy, we have only enough uranium to last a couple of centuries, but we only need it to bridge the gap until torium becomes viable. That time frame includes selling it around the world. Unlike oil and coal, it has no other use other than to produce energy.

Don’t worry about it.  Alternative energy sources are coming along with a lower population due to massive demographic shifts once all the Boomers die off.  That’s why I don’t want to pay to fight “climate change,” because I know that the carbon taxes we destroy ourselves to pay won’t make nearly as much difference to global greenhouse gas emissions as the inevitable technological changes and drop in population.  In fact, we should get our resources to market while the market still exists. Russia and China know this.  There’s plenty of oil and uranium in Canada alone to fuel the entire planet far beyond the next century.  We won’t get that kind of monopoly on supplying the world with energy, so we’ll probably be flush with resources and energy for many centuries. Can you imagine what new energy and material technology will exist just a century from now?

Edited by Zeitgeist
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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Don’t worry about it.  Alternative energy sources are coming along with a lower population due to massive demographic shifts once all the Boomers die off.  That’s why I don’t want to pay to fight “climate change,” because I know that the carbon taxes we destroy ourselves to pay won’t make nearly as much difference to global greenhouse gas emissions as the inevitable technological changes and drop in population.  In fact, we should get our resources to market while the market still exists. Russia and China know this.  There’s plenty of oil and uranium in Canada alone to fuel the entire planet far beyond the next century.  We won’t get that kind of monopoly on supplying the world with energy, so we’ll probably be flush with resources and energy for many centuries. Can you imagine what new energy and material technology will exist just a century from now?

Liberals want to increase immigration to 500K a year. The Boomers won't die off that fast. 

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2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Liberals want to increase immigration to 500K a year. The Boomers won't die off that fast. 

2050’s are the demographic cliff.  Also, everything the Liberals claim to want to do to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is undone by our massive immigration.  I can promise you that these people don’t want to live without home heating in canvas tents, living off moss iced tea and bugs.  They want all the comforts of a developed civilization and no politician will survive who tries to remove the opportunity to have these benefits, thankfully.

Carbon taxes are nothing more than a way that the ruling elite who do whatever they want get to relieve their guilt on the backs of workers who are struggling to have a portion of what the elites enjoy.  Of course!  And none of this policy will make a difference to climate change.

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10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

2050’s are the demographic cliff.  Also, everything the Liberals claim to want to do to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is undone by our massive immigration.  I can promise you that these people don’t want to live without home heating in canvas tents, living off moss iced tea and bugs.  They want all the comforts of a developed civilization and no politician will survive who tries to remove the opportunity to have these benefits, thankfully.

Carbon taxes are nothing more than a way that the ruling elite who do whatever they want get to relieve their guilt on the backs of workers who are struggling to have a portion of what the elites enjoy.  Of course!  And none of this policy will make a difference to climate change.

Why would they come here except to have our standard of living?

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19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Don’t worry about it.  Alternative energy sources are coming along with a lower population due to massive demographic shifts once all the Boomers die off.  That’s why I don’t want to pay to fight “climate change,” because I know that the carbon taxes we destroy ourselves to pay won’t make nearly as much difference to global greenhouse gas emissions as the inevitable technological changes and drop in population.  In fact, we should get our resources to market while the market still exists. Russia and China know this.  There’s plenty of oil and uranium in Canada alone to fuel the entire planet far beyond the next century.  We won’t get that kind of monopoly on supplying the world with energy, so we’ll probably be flush with resources and energy for many centuries. Can you imagine what new energy and material technology will exist just a century from now?

You are only looking at the short term. How long is this predicted population drop going to last? What are they going to use to lubricate the turbines in a nuclear power plant without oil? Climate change is not going to show it's full fury for another 3 - 5 centuries. We are setting up an accelerating self generating event that will reach the tipping point where there is no going back.

We are a very active company of passionate debaters. The punch line is there is nothing we can say that will change minds and nobody out there cares anyway.

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22 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You are only looking at the short term. How long is this predicted population drop going to last? What are they going to use to lubricate the turbines in a nuclear power plant without oil? Climate change is not going to show it's full fury for another 3 - 5 centuries. We are setting up an accelerating self generating event that will reach the tipping point where there is no going back.

We are a very active company of passionate debaters. The punch line is there is nothing we can say that will change minds and nobody out there cares anyway.

Well we care.  Some minds change sometimes, even if people don’t always want to admit that their minds have changed.  My main point is that the big reductions to greenhouse gas emissions will accelerate over time and have some leaps.  Inflicting pain on ourselves now won’t change the outcome for climate change.  In fact, making people poorer today makes climate change worse because less educated people have bigger families generally.

The world will be so vastly different technologically centuries from now that it’s beyond the horizon of predictability.  I have the distinct impression that we will be looked at as the suckers who nearly destroyed themselves fighting various non-crises, believing in unscientific oddities like 58 genders, and promoting people to positions of power and authority based on superficial reasons rather than merit.  We will be seen as a darker age.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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10 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The King and Parliament collect...

Have gone amok, complete nuts, collecting taxes on taxes in the deliberately created environment of near-total lack of transparency, accountability and responsibility. Like it never happened before. Like spitting to stick some pretty words on the reality ever solved any real problems.

Edited by myata
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6 hours ago, myata said:

Have gone amok, complete nuts, collecting taxes on taxes in the deliberately created environment of near-total lack of transparency, accountability and responsibility. Like it never happened before. Like spitting to stick some pretty words on the reality ever solved any real problems.

It’s the same tax and spend slush fund by another name.  It will have no impact on the advertised cause, “fighting climate change”, but it will give government more money to fund its unaccountable projects.  It’s called government overreach.  It’s wasteful, expensive, ineffectual central planning that makes us all poorer.  There’s nothing we can do about it except hope that sense returns to public sentiment in the next election despite the constant fear mongering and vilification of political opposition by government and state-funded media.

I wish I believed our situation could improve substantially, but too much disappointment for too long has pushed me to look outside Canada for greener pastures.

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

There’s nothing we can do about it except hope that sense returns to public sentiment in the next election

That is up to you. Are you in contact with the people in your riding who are seeking the nomination of the party you support? Will you be working to get your choice nominated and then elected? The only way to get your choice elected is to work for it.

Since I no longer have a party, thanks to Peter MacKay, I feel free to choose whom I want as my MP and MLA regardless of party affiliation. At the leadership level, I don't care about ideology.  Mr. Singh and Mr. Poilievre have displayed poor judgement so far. Mr. Trudeau led multi party / government teams to salvage NAFTA against a hostile US congress and then through the worst of the covid pandemic. His ability to work with other parties and levels of government to tackle difficult situations is a quality we need in a government. Premier Ford is another leader who has grown in my estimation for the same reasons.

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56 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That is up to you. Are you in contact with the people in your riding who are seeking the nomination of the party you support? Will you be working to get your choice nominated and then elected? The only way to get your choice elected is to work for it.

Since I no longer have a party, thanks to Peter MacKay, I feel free to choose whom I want as my MP and MLA regardless of party affiliation. At the leadership level, I don't care about ideology.  Mr. Singh and Mr. Poilievre have displayed poor judgement so far. Mr. Trudeau led multi party / government teams to salvage NAFTA against a hostile US congress and then through the worst of the covid pandemic. His ability to work with other parties and levels of government to tackle difficult situations is a quality we need in a government. Premier Ford is another leader who has grown in my estimation for the same reasons.

Trudeau is destroying Canada in unprecedented ways and I can’t believe that you don’t see what a divisive, anti-democratic, naive, and grossly unqualified phoney he is. You’re not alone in your obliviousness, however, which explains why Canada is in so much trouble.

I participated a bit with the local riding Conservatives and met the candidate who lost in the last election.  I saw the candidates for leadership of the Conservatives speak and was impressed by Poilievre.  He was smart and effective, so I don’t know if he has much chance in our radical left unconstitutional cultural context.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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19 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You still haven't mentioned why we should be in such a hurry to sell off our non-renewable resources. They have to be there for future generations, particularly coal and oil. The worst thing you can do with coal and oil is burn it. There are tens of thousands of products that are made from fossil resources. Without lubricating oil, nothing moves. There is no electricity. No rolling transport, no industry. If we use up our oil and coal now, we will be robbing our descendents of life above the Bronze Age. Somebody said in this forum that we only have 188 years of oil reserves left. It took 180 million years to produce the oil and at the rate we are going, we will have used it up in less than 400 years. So much for the rights of the unborn.

188 years of oil left means in Canada.  That doesn't include other countries and oceans.  Also, there are vast gas reserves under the Artic in northern Canada.  Jesus Christ may return any time and nobody may need oil in 188 years as the one thousand year millenium rule of Jesus Christ on earth may be established.  If that doesn't happen in the 188 years, then the people may transition to other fuels such as the gas or nuclear or combinations of things.  But it is foolish to try to cut off the oil production now and make life impossible for the billions of people alive now.  We don't know what is going to happen that far in the future.  We have to be realistic.  The oil is there for us to use now without carbon taxes and crazy environmental regulations that make life miserable and outrageous for millions of people in Canada and elsewhere.  Stop trying to push the phony alarmism.

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22 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That's what government is for. The King and Parliament collect taxes and spend them to provide the people what they want. If the Government did not do what the people want, some would say that is tyranny.

How would you suggest we keep people home during the pandemic without giving them cerb? Would you do what the Chinese do and just lock them in their apartments and weld the doors shut? If the building catches fire...well to heck with them if they can't take a joke. The US didn't do enough to keep people safe in their bubbles and they suffered the worst catastrophe in their history. 47.5 thousand deaths in Canada was a tragedy, but if the government did not react the way they did, we could have lost another 60 thousand people.

Or acted faster,could have been less deaths.

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22 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That's what government is for. The King and Parliament collect taxes and spend them to provide the people what they want. If the Government did not do what the people want, some would say that is tyranny.

How would you suggest we keep people home during the pandemic without giving them cerb? Would you do what the Chinese do and just lock them in their apartments and weld the doors shut? If the building catches fire...well to heck with them if they can't take a joke. The US didn't do enough to keep people safe in their bubbles and they suffered the worst catastrophe in their history. 47.5 thousand deaths in Canada was a tragedy, but if the government did not react the way they did, we could have lost another 60 thousand people.

For a guy as smart as you are Queen, you seem to have forgotten what Canadian federal government does or is supposed to do. The primary mission of the government is to keep the country running, and when nessicary making those tough decisions when they are not popular.

In our case each PM or government has their own agenda, on what they think is best for the country, which comes first and foremost, you did not get a vote or say in that, and then if there is room to keep some people happy then sure they'll slide a little something in there, make no mistake the government is not the people's puppet.

Why is it that the government cannot account for all the funding spent on the pandemic, CERB, PPE, Vaccines, only account for less than 1/2 that spent. 

47.500 Canadians deaths is a tragic, but why are you fixated on this pandemic, why are we OK with spending all that we did. why was it so important to spend well over 700 billion. when this nation faces much worse than this pandemic. 

Cancer kills 45,000 men and 40,000 women each year,

 Cancer statistics at a glance | Canadian Cancer Society

Heart disease kills 54,000 people every year.

The Top 10 Leading Causes of Death in Canada | Finder Canada

There is a whole list of what kills people in Canada, the covid numbers for 2020, were 16, 151 everyone is tragic,

but we did not shut down the country, nor did we spend over 1/2 trillion federal dollars on any of the rest of the ones on the list,  infact very little government spending goes into cancer research, most of it is sponsored by regular Canadians out of their own pockets, as most research of diseases are. 

The Cerb was a program designed to be taken advantage of, with well over thousands of Canadian teenagers collecting cerb while living at home with parents who's income was over 200 k. nor the thousand others that claimed they did not know all the rules collected CERB and then were given a reprieve by the government. 

Did it benefit the nation yes for the most part it did, but not all, did it prevent large chunks of private business from closing no it did not so there was good point and bad points. but was it worth 700 bil nope. 

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IMHO, the world does not lack for people.

If anything, the world has too many children.

Our problem is a lack of educated, civilised children.

=====

We Canadians are good at allowing people - foreigners - to become civilised.

The Scandinavians (Swedes, Norwegians) can't do this. The Europeans can't integrate people. The Prussians force them. The Finns are clueless about foreigners.

Americans and Australians are good. But we Canadians are best.

We Canadians somehow make most - if not all - foreigners civilised.

Ask any foreigner.

Edited by August1991
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24 minutes ago, August1991 said:

We Canadians somehow make all foreigners civilised.

That can be a self-serving illusion. We Canadians like to be proud and praise ourselves (whether the result, actual achievement merits it or otherwise). That is quite certain. For the rest, we need some objective criteria. Because salmon, ores and forests will not last forever. And then, taxes on the taxes on the charges may not suffice.

Canada is disappointed with EU deforestation rules. So mach for the touted and proclaimed "sustainability". What is real here? How would we know?

Edited by myata
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