Federal Carbon Charge

[myata]

Yes we all heard. A Great Green Initiative (and I agree, something needs to be done better than nothing).

But here's the thing: should it be done the good old Canadian self-serving relaxed entitled way?

So there's the Carbon Charge and then, Harmonized Sales Tax. You thought they are two different things, like how could they be related, logically and factually? Wrong: here you go again, a tax on the charge. Anyone else noticed?

Again: govt provides you a great service by charging you. Then, it takes the tax on it, out of your pocket just because. Nope, no explanations needed.

We all know that the Charge is revenue neutral, for the government. But what about the tax, on the charge? Has anyone noticed?

$5 from me and (estimated) around 10 median by about 10 million families makes it juicy $100 million monthly or over a billion annually. Who counted? Where did / do / will it go? What gross entitlements and $17 (before inflation) juices will it pay for out of uncountable and bottomless, black hole public pocket?

Why should there be a tax on the charge anyways? Has anybody bothered to think and then maybe, ask? What, technically impossible? While obscene salaries and benefits, compensations allowances never a techical problem? Sure?

What a lazy careless bordering on s-d public political sphere we have here. What a shame to us, as (supposedly) intelligent beings that we allow it, no questions needed, no answers expected. The manager knows or may. How could we avoid the preset automatic destination once forests and fish and the ores run out?

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by myata

[ExFlyer]

As Shakespeare said "What babble is this?" LOL

HST was long before carbon tax and there is a sales tax on everything, no matter what.

CEO wages have nothing to do with carbon charge or HST, they pay it too.

Taxes pay for everything you get....from roads to health care to all other services. We all get and and we all pay, regardless of your wages.

[myata]

But of course. Looks like the government found a great new source of revenue. More charges, more HST for  juicy pensions and allowances so more charges and it was like that from the times of Noah why worry. Problem solved. Only for your own, common good. Rejoice, Canaga!

Edited November 26, 2022 by myata

[myata]

Government imposes new charge then collects the tax on it. Nothing to worry, business as usual. What's the next stop, Venezuela already?

With these kind of innocent tricks, public support for serious climate actions will plummet. Bye climate change! Canada's politics becoming part joke part grotesque parody on modern democracy.

Edited November 27, 2022 by myata

[herbie]

What federal carbon charge?We don't have one here.

Maybe you live somewhere so ideologically stubborn and fiscally stupid they don't have a Provincial one.

[Zeitgeist]

Canadians are suckers who accept high taxes, including carbon taxes, that fail to reduce greenhouse gasses.  It’s that simple.  I’m currently visiting a U.S. state with no state sales tax.  US citizen wages have grown at a higher rate than Canadian wages and they are taxed far less with better results for emissions.  Nevertheless the Canadian government continues to fleece citizens to pay for stupid projects.

The HST is another way that Canadians are mistreated.  The rational for it was to throw a massive consumption tax at citizens to keep exports cheap.   Basically foreigners can get Canadian goods more cheaply than Canadians.  The tax burden in Canada has to be reduced substantially, but it won’t happen because Canadians have been taught that high taxes give them good services such as our failed healthcare system.  

[myata]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

federal carbon charge?We don't have one here.

Read you bill better, may learn something useful

[myata]

28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

have been taught that high taxes give them good services such as our failed healthcare system.  

No transparency, no accountability, little reason or even common sense (tax on federal charge) - what surprises?

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

No transparency, no accountability, little reason or even common sense (tax on federal charge) - what surprises?

Unfortunately I don’t think it’s going to change.  Canadians are proud of stupid policies.  That’s why I’m hoping my kids can get opportunities outside Canada.  

[myata]

- It makes exactly, absolutely zero sense.

- Nothing to worry! It was like that since the times of Noah!

(the great story of Canada - as written by pompous self-serving elites and carefree, to the point of oblivion, populace)

Edited November 28, 2022 by myata

[cougar]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Unfortunately I don’t think it’s going to change.  Canadians are proud of stupid policies.  That’s why I’m hoping my kids can get opportunities outside Canada.  

And where exactly? In the States? The UK? Australia?  New Zealand?  Or maybe Russia?

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, cougar said:

And where exactly? In the States? The UK? Australia?  New Zealand?  Or maybe Russia?

US and UK, but primarily US

[Queenmandy85]

On 11/27/2022 at 3:38 AM, Zeitgeist said:

The tax burden in Canada has to be reduced substantially, but it won’t happen because Canadians have been taught that high taxes give them good services such as our failed healthcare system.  

So you are saying we should disband the Canadian Armed Forces, close all the hospitals, defund the police and so on. The reason the healthcare system is in difficulty is a deadly pandemic that perhaps you failed to notice. We now have the trifecta of JSV, flu and a new wave of covid for the system to deal with. You mention moving to the US or the UK. The UK has a covid death rate (deaths/ million) that is doulble Canada's and the US it it triple. 

If you reduce tax revenue, how do you propose paying for governimg a 21st century nation. We already have to borrow to cover the total cost already.

[myata]

17 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So you are saying we should disband the Canadian Armed Forces, close all the hospitals, defund the police and so on.

But of course! My (bureaucracy) way or the highway and no other options, nothing in between, closing on the second century of the happy democracy tale. Wait, what about tax on the tax on a charge? Interesting...just can be the solution! Can we do that? And who said we couldn't?

[myata]

Government provides you with a service" by charging you. And naturally Harmonized Service Tax makes a lot of sense. Doesn't it?

You thought service means you choose it and what you want to pay for it?  Your bad. It was so long ago and thinking too much. It's so boring - and uncanadian too!

More charges is more services"" right? just has to be! And it means more taxes! For our fat salaries and juicy allow.. scratch that, hospitals and the stuff you know the tale. And even for GDP, nice growth picture.

Got it, silly. It's all for your own good! So be happy and don't think tool much. It hurts happiness.

Edited November 29, 2022 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

22 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So you are saying we should disband the Canadian Armed Forces, close all the hospitals, defund the police and so on. The reason the healthcare system is in difficulty is a deadly pandemic that perhaps you failed to notice. We now have the trifecta of JSV, flu and a new wave of covid for the system to deal with. You mention moving to the US or the UK. The UK has a covid death rate (deaths/ million) that is doulble Canada's and the US it it triple. 

If you reduce tax revenue, how do you propose paying for governimg a 21st century nation. We already have to borrow to cover the total cost already.

If we scrap all of Trudeau’s special interest programs, carbon taxes, and lower taxes in general, people will have more disposable income.  Also let those who want to set up private healthcare clinics and charge high prices to those who are willing to pay them do so.  We can simply let all the immigrant doctors who are driving Uber finally become family doctors and join our universal healthcare system.  They can prescribe Amoxicillin to half their patients like all of our current doctors.  Oh yeah, and deregulate our natural resource sector so people can make real money and Indigenous can have good jobs near their communities without relying on  paternalistic government victim programs. People need more rights and opportunities for real self-determination.

As for your mention of the kinds of ailments we’ve been dealing with for centuries, incentivize fitness as Harper did and let people build up their immunity rather than trapping them in permanent masking bubbles and making them over-dependent on pharmaceuticals.  Covid is now flu-like and flu is part of life.  Get vaxed if you want but no one should make you.  We need to respect personal discretion and rights.  I don’t subscribe to Trudeau’s world views or values.  He can go on all the drag shows he wants.  Keep him away from my children.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Queenmandy85]

21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Oh yeah, and deregulate our natural resource sector so people can make real money

So, you don't think the extraction of uranium needs to be governerned by any kind of rules? Or the forest industry and mining? Look at what has happened in the Amazon. The owner of the resources must have control over their exploitation.

 

25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

As for your mention of the kinds of ailments we’ve been dealing with for centuries, incentivize fitness as Harper did and let people build up their immunity rather than trapping them in permanent masking bubbles and making them over-dependent on pharmaceuticals.

Viruses don't care how fit you are. For some viruses, the best source of immunity is a vaccine. If you do contract a virus, pharaceuticals may help alleviate the symptoms.

You have a very simplistic view of complex problems. 

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So, you don't think the extraction of uranium needs to be governerned by any kind of rules? Or the forest industry and mining? Look at what has happened in the Amazon. The owner of the resources must have control over their exploitation.

 

Viruses don't care how fit you are. For some viruses, the best source of immunity is a vaccine. If you do contract a virus, pharaceuticals may help alleviate the symptoms.

You have a very simplistic view of complex problems. 

I have deeper knowledge of these topics than most of my interlocutors on here.  I want to learn but see few lessons so far.  Of course some regulations are necessary, but the endless consultations and over the top environmental assessments need to stop. We’ve discussed more specifics about bills and legislation in past discussions.

As for your support of bubble wrapping culture, no thanks.  We have a generation of young people who can’t handle basic real world problems, including minor ailments.  I agree that the vulnerable should protect themselves with available resources and there are plenty.  No further Covid mandates necessary.  

[Boges]

On 11/27/2022 at 4:38 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Canadians are suckers who accept high taxes, including carbon taxes, that fail to reduce greenhouse gasses.  It’s that simple.  I’m currently visiting a U.S. state with no state sales tax.  US citizen wages have grown at a higher rate than Canadian wages and they are taxed far less with better results for emissions.  Nevertheless the Canadian government continues to fleece citizens to pay for stupid projects.

The HST is another way that Canadians are mistreated.  The rational for it was to throw a massive consumption tax at citizens to keep exports cheap.   Basically foreigners can get Canadian goods more cheaply than Canadians.  The tax burden in Canada has to be reduced substantially, but it won’t happen because Canadians have been taught that high taxes give them good services such as our failed healthcare system.  

The US has also seen increased prices on gas regardless of taxes. There are US states that have even higher taxes. 

In Europe the cost of "petrol" is, and always has, been higher. 

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

The US has also seen increased prices on gas regardless of taxes. There are US states that have even higher taxes. 

In Europe the cost of "petrol" is, and always has, been higher. 

 

$3.25 US a gallon in many US states.

Europeans are screwed on fuel, water, electricity, and heating prices.  Do NOT emulate the Europeans.  They have almost no disposable income and lower living standards.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Jack9000]

i am left wing but carbon taxes is one thing i strongly disagree on with..  and ours in atlantic canada is going up in 2023 meh.

[Queenmandy85]

31 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

$3.25 US a gallon in many US states.

Europeans are screwed on fuel, water, electricity, and heating prices.  Do NOT emulate the Europeans.  They have almost no disposable income and lower living standards.

It seems to be all about money with you. Do you give any thought to future generations who will neeed to rely on those resources?

[myata]

30 minutes ago, Jack9000 said:

but carbon taxes is one thing i strongly disagree on with.. 

And then, how about HST on the carbon tax / "charge"? I'd like to find words... nothing comes except what the #$% is this? What ##$$%% "goods" or "service" we are talking here, in what bizarre universe? Nope, nothing to worry business as usual.

Edited November 29, 2022 by myata

[Army Guy]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:43 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

So you are saying we should disband the Canadian Armed Forces, close all the hospitals, defund the police and so on. The reason the healthcare system is in difficulty is a deadly pandemic that perhaps you failed to notice. We now have the trifecta of JSV, flu and a new wave of covid for the system to deal with. You mention moving to the US or the UK. The UK has a covid death rate (deaths/ million) that is doulble Canada's and the US it it triple. 

If you reduce tax revenue, how do you propose paying for governimg a 21st century nation. We already have to borrow to cover the total cost already.

A good portion of Canadians want just that, cut funding to CAF, police or disband it altogether, they want to use that funding for other social programs to line their own pockets, to a lot of them they are disgusted we spend money on those departments they get no return from. 

And all the pandemic showed Canadians was just how far the taps could be opened up, and their new thirst for more social programs or free money like the cerb.

How many people stood up and question the government about pandemic spending, not very many, most if not all did not even blink at the final number the liberals response was maybe we should slow down a bit, we will only spend almost 100 bil this year alone. Again, no blinks... So ask ourselves do you really think most Canadians care what we are paying for in interest, or if we fault those payments... Want to start a riot tell them they are cutting back on social programs and watch all their heads explode 

[Zeitgeist]

28 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It seems to be all about money with you. Do you give any thought to future generations who will neeed to rely on those resources?

I suggest getting the resources to market before China and Russia, as our resources will likely be so heavily taxed, regulated, and expensive to extract soon that no one will bother.  Already happening.  Just look at pipelines.  Yes it’s all about the money because our government is thoroughly immoral and has no business pushing lifestyle choices on our vulnerable youth.  Government is there to provide the essential unprofitable services and nothing more.  Get government out of the way as much as possible.  They are destroying the country.  

Edited November 29, 2022 by Zeitgeist