Why is the Second Amendment a priority?

[Aristides]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I none the less predict that God will prevail in the end

and His wrath will brought down upon the likes of you therein

Whatever. More likely I'll be the victim of zealots who use a god to justify doing whatever they want.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Whatever. More likely I'll be the victim of zealots who use a god to justify doing whatever they want.

so be it

I don't concern myself with that which is beyond my control

[Queenmandy85]

Back to my OP, it seems to me the level of enthusiasm for guns borders on a cultural fetish. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[reason10]

17 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Of all the rights available to our American neighbours, why is the right to bare arms the one that seems to be so sacred. Perhaps it is just the forums I lurk in but it seems to me that gun rights seem to outweigh the right to free speech, freedom of religion or a free press.

In the eighteenth century, firearms were a necessity for getting food and making up for an eastablished constabulary. Now, the US has lots of supermarkets and more police agencies than you can shake a stick at.

That whole thing about "liberty" and "freedom" seems to have your panties in a bunch.

But you might want to tell the rest of the class here where you got the dumb ass idea that the prohibition against government gun grabbing  somehow outweighs the OTHER restrictions on government power in the American Constitution. (The Amendments, specifically. Some people call the first ten of them the Bill Of Rights.)

Why do you need bottled water, when your whole country is surrounded by ocean?

(See how your dumbass flights away from logic work out?)

[reason10]

11 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Back to my OP, it seems to me the level of enthusiasm for guns borders on a cultural fetish. 

In America, we embrace common sense.

If you don't like guns, don't buy one. Leave other people alone.

If you don't like a program on the TV, change the channel. Don't demand the government take it off the air.

If you don't like Burger King, go somewhere else. Don't demand government close down Burger King.

In America, most of us have this uniquely colonial concept of MIND YOUR OWN FRIKKEN BUSINESS.

[reason10]

15 hours ago, Aristides said:

Whatever. More likely I'll be the victim of zealots who use a god to justify doing whatever they want.

The people in these buildings certainly were.

[reason10]

17 hours ago, Aristides said:

Lots of countries manage to have those without a 2nd Amendment. Makes the US look like a country that can't grow up.

You are cordially invited to move to the wonderful countries who are not governed by a Constitution that places restrictions on Government power.

They're gonna LOVE your Woke ass in North Korea.

Considering that the United States of America FEEDS THE GODDAM WORLD, is now the world's sole police force, etc. I think most people would say this place is far past "grown up."

But by all means. Move to Cuba, where they will gladly take your guns away, (along with your freedom of speech).

[reason10]

17 hours ago, Aristides said:

If armed civilians take power in the US, it won't be to defend democracy or free speech. The opposite. 

Strange.

The last time armed civilians took power in this country, democracy AND free speech were instantly protected.

(Geez! Your blue state schools must spend 12 years teaching you children about Play Doh)

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

The people in these buildings certainly were.

Exactly, religious zealots don't differ much.

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

Strange.

The last time armed civilians took power in this country, democracy AND free speech were instantly protected.

(Geez! Your blue state schools must spend 12 years teaching you children about Play Doh)

When was that? The revolutionary war was won by an army with a lot of help from the French.

[reason10]

7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Exactly, religious zealots don't differ much.

Well, the most extreme religious zealots in America (whether they are snake handlers or Rastamen smoking pot for a religious service) so far haven't flown any planes into any buildings or executed homos by tossing them off tall buildings.

As of now, the group with the towels around their heads are leading in that regard.

[reason10]

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

When was that? The revolutionary war was won by an army with a lot of help from the French.

A yes, that blue state propaganda machine masquerading as an education.

See THIS is why it's impossible to trust you left wing Woke goose steppers with anything, since you have no idea what you're talking about.

You probably tried to use the "militia" clause of the Second Amendment to justify gun grabbing without even knowing what a militia was.

During the Revolutionary War, MILITIAS were small groups of gun owners who fought alongside of the regular army. While the well organized Washingtonian troop would line up and fire straight at the Redcoats in similar fashion, militias invented the concept of guerilla warfare, firing from all over the place: from behind trees, from foxholes, behind large stones. It was the MILITIAS who did most of the damage and had Cornwallis backed up against the Atlantic, when the French FINALLY show up with ships and troops.

 

You REALLY need to get away from those 1619 Project Nazis. They have no facts, only racism and hate.

[Aristides]

21 minutes ago, reason10 said:

A yes, that blue state propaganda machine masquerading as an education.

See THIS is why it's impossible to trust you left wing Woke goose steppers with anything, since you have no idea what you're talking about.

You probably tried to use the "militia" clause of the Second Amendment to justify gun grabbing without even knowing what a militia was.

During the Revolutionary War, MILITIAS were small groups of gun owners who fought alongside of the regular army. While the well organized Washingtonian troop would line up and fire straight at the Redcoats in similar fashion, militias invented the concept of guerilla warfare, firing from all over the place: from behind trees, from foxholes, behind large stones. It was the MILITIAS who did most of the damage and had Cornwallis backed up against the Atlantic, when the French FINALLY show up with ships and troops.

 

You REALLY need to get away from those 1619 Project Nazis. They have no facts, only racism and hate.

The French supplied money and material almost from the beginning and French ground forces were operating with the Americans from 1779. The French also tied down British forces in the rest of the world. It was a French naval victory that prevented Cornwallis from being reinforced at Yorktown and forced his surrender.

[reason10]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

The French supplied money and material almost from the beginning and French ground forces were operating with the Americans from 1779. The French also tied down British forces in the rest of the world. It was a French naval victory that prevented Cornwallis from being reinforced at Yorktown and forced his surrender.

It was the Militias who pushed Cornwallis to  the surrender point.

[Aristides]

9 minutes ago, reason10 said:

It was the Militias who pushed Cornwallis to  the surrender point.

It was the Continental Army and French troops and the defeat of a reinforcing fleet by the French navy.

 

We have a similar myth in Canada that the American invasion of 1812 was defeated by Canadian militias when in reality most of the heavy lifting was done by British regulars and natives.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Aristides

[reason10]

15 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Back to my OP, it seems to me the level of enthusiasm for guns borders on a cultural fetish. 

It's not something required of the entire world. There are plenty of countries where they grab guns and lock up innocent gun owners.

The United States is different, in that we have a constitution that spells out the limitations of government. Not just about guns.

In the United States, government cannot arrest you for unpopular speech, for worshiping in an unpopular religion, for owning firearms, etc. The United States Government cannot house soldiers in civilian quarters in peacetime. The United States cannot deprive someone of life, liberty or property without due process. The United States government cannot perpetrate cruel and unusual punishment. The United States Government cannot conduct an illegal search and seizure.

You may look at one of the items as a cultural fetish, but ALL the items are the makings of a country that half the world is trying to emigrate to. This is a country of liberty and freedom. And that liberty and freedom means government power is limited.

[reason10]

37 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It was the Continental Army and French troops and the defeat of a reinforcing fleet by the French navy.

 

We have a similar myth in Canada that the American invasion of 1812 was defeated by Canadian militias when in reality most of the heavy lifting was done by British regulars and natives.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/militia

Quote

During the American Revolution, the militia provided the bulk of the American forces as well as a pool for recruiting or drafting of regulars.

 

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

During the Revolutionary War, MILITIAS were small groups of gun owners who fought alongside of the regular army. While the well organized Washingtonian troop would line up and fire straight at the Redcoats in similar fashion, militias invented the concept of guerilla warfare, firing from all over the place: from behind trees, from foxholes, behind large stones. It was the MILITIAS who did most of the damage and had Cornwallis backed up against the Atlantic, when the French FINALLY show up with ships and troops.

My family lived in America for about 150 years before the revolution. When the war broke out, like tens of thousands of other American Conservatives, the joined the militias and fought. When they returned home after the war, they found they did not have these rights. Their homes were stolen by armed thugs called the "sons of liberty," who were far worse than antifa. These vetrans found their families driven out and all their possessions stolen. These radicals had burned the churches, hanged American Conservatives for exersizing their God given rights of free speech, just for being on the Conservative side in the war.

Militias were not the exclusive domain of the Whig radicals. American Conservatives also had their militias that fought in over 750 battles. Some of the more famous militias were Rogers Rangers (aka Queen's Rangers), the King's American Regiment, the Prince of Wales American Regiment, the King's Royal Regiment of New York, the New Jersey Volunteers and Butler's Rangers. 

So the radicals were pretty selective in honouring those rights granted by God.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[reason10]

1 minute ago, Queenmandy85 said:

My family lived in Massachusetts for about 150 years before the revolution. When the war broke out, like tens of thousands of other American Conservatives, the joined the militias and fought. When they returned home after the war, they found they did not have these rights. Their homes were stolen by armed thugs called the "sons of liberty," who were far worse than antifa. These vetrans found their families driven out and all their possessions stolen. These radicals had burned the churches, hanged American Conservatives for exersizing their God given rights of free speech, just for being on the Conservative side in the war.

Militias were not the exclusive domain of the Whig radicals. American Conservatives also had their militias that fought in over 750 battles. Some of the more famous militias were Rogers Rangers (aka Queen's Rangers), the King's American Regiment, the Prince of Wales American Regiment, the King's Royal Regiment of New York, the New Jersey Volunteers and Butler's Rangers. 

So the radicals were pretty selective in honouring those rights granted by God.

Now you got me wondering. "American conservatives?" Are you suggesting there was an EIB network back then? Were they all listening to Rush Limbaugh back then?

I only go by our history books.

https://truthout.org/articles/how-the-second-amendments-militia-became-part-of-todays-standing-army/
 

Quote

 

First of all, the framers of the Constitution explicitly invoked the importance of a well-regulated militia because they abhorred the idea of a standing army. A professional military was completely anathema to most Americans at the end of the 18th century. Even James Madison, one of the most stalwart proponents of a strong federal government, noted in a speech before the Constitutional Convention that, “A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home.”

This American dislike and distrust of standing armies was nothing new. It had its roots in English military history. However, even more notable was the colonists’ own experience with the British standing army. In the lead-up to the Revolutionary War, they had begun to view the British army as little more than the enforcers of tyranny. In fact, the Second and Third Amendments to the US Constitution can be understood as having been written in direct response to the conduct of the British soldiers.

Not only did the British work to curtail colonists’ access to arms and munitions at the outset of the revolution, but colonists had been forced to lodge and supply British soldiers in the Quartering Acts of 1765 and 1774. Hence, the framers of the Constitution were quick to enshrine the right to keep and bear arms, as well as the provision that, “No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.”

 

British troops occupied Boston in 1768

War broke out in 1775

British army surrendered in 1781

The United States Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation in 1787

[Queenmandy85]

52 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Now you got me wondering. "American conservatives?" Are you suggesting there was an EIB network back then? Were they all listening to Rush Limbaugh back then?

I only go by our history books.

Another word for Conservative is Tory. Conservatives have also been called Tories for centuries. They still are.  I the American context, American Conservatives were also called Loyalists.

The radicals were known as Whigs or Patriots. Calling Mr. Limbaugh a "conservative" is a mis-use of the word conservative.  

Note, I corrected my family history to point out they were in America for a century and a half. I am not sure when they landed up in Massachusetts. Some of them were in New York for a time.

If you wish to go by your history books, I recommend Tories: Fighting for the King in America's First Civil War, Allen, Thomas B.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

I only go by our history books.

You may also wish to research the causes of the war. It was propelled by a group who desired the benifits of the 7 Years War without contributing to the costs. They did not represent the majority of Americans, many whom wanted nothing to do with them. Tens of thousands of Americans fled or were driven out of their homes after the war, inspite of their so-called rights. During the war, patriots stripped loyal Americans naked, men, women and children, forced them into rowboats and made them row to Tory-held communities. 

While soldiers of the Continental Army were starving at Valley Forge, reduced to eating their boots, General Washington's only complaint about the cuisine was he had to drink watered rum instead of wine. 20 miles away, the Conservative militia were being housed and well fed by loyalist Americans who loathed the "patriots."  

Was that in your history books? You should also read Bernard Corwell's book The Fort.  It is an account of the Penobscot expedition in 1779 and the reasons for Paul Revere's court martial for cowardice. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[reason10]

19 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Another word for Conservative is Tory. Conservatives have also been called Tories for centuries. They still are.  I the American context, American Conservatives were also called Loyalists.

The radicals were known as Whigs or Patriots. Calling Mr. Limbaugh a "conservative" is a mis-use of the word conservative.  

Note, I corrected my family history to point out they were in America for a century and a half. I am not sure when they landed up in Massachusetts. Some of them were in New York for a time.

If you wish to go by your history books, I recommend Tories: Fighting for the King in America's First Civil War, Allen, Thomas B.

Actually, words like conservative and liberal have undergone radical definition change in America. At one time a conservative was a stubborn know nothing, who fought tooth and nail against any change at all. At one time a liberal was a laissez faire free market capitalist, who wanted as small a government as possible.

It was brilliant minds like Buckley, Reagan and Limbaugh who redefined the concept of Conservatism, making it synonymous with intelligent thought in America.

In the early Seventies, the Port Huron Statement hatched generations of goose stepping Nazi liberals, who wiped their asses on the constitution and supported crime and criminals.

Things change over time. Maybe 100 years from now liberals will be all homosexuals who fly only at night.

[reason10]

18 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You may also wish to research the causes of the war. It was propelled by a group who desired the benifits of the 7 Years War without contributing to the costs. They did not represent the majority of Americans, many whom wanted nothing to do with them. Tens of thousands of Americans fled or were driven out of their homes after the war, inspite of their so-called rights. During the war, patriots stripped loyal Americans naked, men, women and children, forced them into rowboats and made them row to Tory-held communities. 

While soldiers of the Continental Army were starving at Valley Forge, reduced to eating their boots, General Washington's only complaint about the cuisine was he had to drink watered rum instead of wine. 20 miles away, the Conservative militia were being housed and well fed by loyalist Americans who loathed the "patriots."  

Was that in your history books? You should also read Bernard Corwell's book The Fort.  It is an account of the Penobscot expedition in 1779 and the reasons for Paul Revere's court martial for cowardice. 

It's fairly obvious your information comes from a biased source.

Gee! Imagine that.

[Queenmandy85]

39 minutes ago, reason10 said:

It's fairly obvious your information comes from a biased source.

Gee! Imagine that.

And yours comes from dubious mythology. Have you read Allen's book?  It is well researched, using primary documents. When the Whigs could not get their way by legal means, they used violence. That impulse to use a gun to settle disagreements became part of American culture. It is ironic that a nation which is the most generous and enlightened nation in the world still has a small segment of people who feel so frightened that they have to pack a gun. As I said earlier, IIRC, something like 50% of the firearms in the US are owned by 3% of the population.

Now, I am happy to admit, I am glad to live in Canada with a neighbour like the USA. We have very different cultures and beliefs, but since 1930, relations have been an example to the world.

[ironstone]

On 11/23/2022 at 9:30 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

Back to my OP, it seems to me the level of enthusiasm for guns borders on a cultural fetish. 

If guns are bought in a legal way, why shouldn't law abiding Americans have the right to hunt and have the right to own firearms for personal protection? In some cities, violent criminals are quickly let back out onto the streets on a regular basis (largely by Democrats).

If guns are stored properly, what's the problem with having a collection? I have way more concern for firearms in the hands of criminals than I do in the hands of law-abiding citizens.

Even free speech in the US is under attack. "I disagree with you, but I will defend your right to say it" has gone by the wayside.

It should be pointed out that dictatorships have a history of disarming their populations.