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Americans (colonists) did NOT start the slave trade.


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57 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Nobody cares outside the influence of the American anglosphere. If you tried to suggest to Italians or Arabs or Frenchmen or the Chinese that they should look back on their history and ancient leaders with contempt because they mistreated people they'd probably laugh in your face.

Probably but so what, that says more about them.  People in Canada laughed at the idea of negotiating and reconciling too when it was first proposed.  And don't forget, in the case of indigenous people we're often talking about people within the living memory of recent generations not ancient ones.  Conflating the bad behaviour and cause for settlement that occurred with living memory with bad behaviour that occurred in ancient times doesn't or shouldn't magically washes their hands of the need to account.  And by the same token this is accounting for what institutions that outlive human beings did.  That's what we're liable for IMO. 

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I disagree. Progressives do it constantly. Look at how outraged they get at any deviation from respect for the equality of women compared to how they almost entirely exempt the Muslim world from any judgement on its misogyny, or, for that matter, ignore the misogyny of Muslims organizations in Canada.

The only quantifiable caveat or deviation if you prefer from the absolutists you've characterized lefties is almost you're being charitable I suppose.

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Are you saying we should be better people because our religion is better than others?

No, because we choose to be better.  AFAIC do unto others yadda yadda is an ancient humanist moral that was merely co-opted by religions, some that wouldn't know what to do with a moral if their existence depended on it.

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Nobody ever denied it. But now it's like the media, politicians, artists and academics are obsessed with the worst elements of our history and are doing their best to exaggerate it, grind our faces in it and ensure that neither we nor any immigrants arriving have the slightest pride in Canada and its history. This is all imported straight from the US, like an infection, including the cancelling of historical figures and the pulling down of statues.

Classic whataboutism. If we are going to judge other cultures, we should judge ourselves by the same standards. 

I think we are in the process of finding a balance and it won't be a straight line. I also don't think immigrants are the problem, they have no stake in what who did to who 100 or more years ago, most are just happy to be here.

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13 hours ago, Aristides said:

Classic whataboutism. If we are going to judge other cultures, we should judge ourselves by the same standards. 

But we don't.

13 hours ago, Aristides said:

I think we are in the process of finding a balance and it won't be a straight line. I also don't think immigrants are the problem, they have no stake in what who did to who 100 or more years ago, most are just happy to be here.

If you want to integrate people into whatever sort of culture/values Canada is becoming they need to have a sense of common, shared identity in a nation they can be proud of. Trudeau and his ilk are doing everything they can to ensure that doesn't happen, and that no one anywhere has pride in Canada. What do you think children are taught in school today about Canada's past? Are they taught how people with axes and mules built a nation or are they treated to a litany of exaggerated sob stories about how cruel and unjust everyone prior to this generation was towards every imaginable minority.

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13 hours ago, eyeball said:

Probably but so what, that says more about them.

That they have a more realistic view of history than us?

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

 People in Canada laughed at the idea of negotiating and reconciling too when it was first proposed. 

Maybe because it was a stupid idea then, and still is. After years of this nonsense natives are not more reconciled to being Canadians but less. They're not less angry, but more angry. They're not readier now to stand on their own two feet but instead more eager to embrace and wallow in their martyred sense of victimhood - while demanding endless reparations from the rest of us.

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

And don't forget, in the case of indigenous people we're often talking about people within the living memory of recent generations not ancient ones. 

No, we're not. 

 

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

 The only quantifiable caveat or deviation if you prefer from the absolutists you've characterized lefties is almost you're being charitable I suppose.

I notice you don't have anything else to answer to that. Because progressives DO ignore the misogyny in the Muslim world, or make excuses for it, both abroad and here in Canada.  In fact, one of the things one notices about Canada (and the US) and the obsession our mass media has with racism is that it's a one way obsession. I.e., any story of a white person being racist gets nationwide coverage. Any story about racism or bigotry on the part of a minority - and there are MANY - gets completely ignored.

The most racist, bigoted people in Canada are its minorities. But you'll never find progressives mentioning that. Likewise, you'll find the US media ignoring things like the repeated violent attacks on Asians by Blacks who are acting our of pure hatred. Same thing happens in Canada and our media ignore it too.

 

Edited by I am Groot
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So my next to last post wondered what children were being taught today about Canada's past (and America's). Well, in the Post today, comes an example of not only what children are being taught but what happens to anyone who dares to contradict the Canada-hate being taught to children here. The same thing is going on in the US, of course.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/as-this-b-c-teacher-found-out-even-speaking-the-truth-in-class-is-enough-to-get-an-educator-cancelled

To remove paywall

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fnationalpost.com%2Fopinion%2Fas-this-b-c-teacher-found-out-even-speaking-the-truth-in-class-is-enough-to-get-an-educator-cancelled

Edited by I am Groot
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2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

That they have a more realistic view of history than us?

I'd say they have a more jaded view, like your's.

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Maybe because it was a stupid idea then, and still is. After years of this nonsense natives are not more reconciled to being Canadians but less. They're not less angry, but more angry. They're not readier now to stand on their own two feet but instead more eager to embrace and wallow in their martyred sense of victimhood - while demanding endless reparations from the rest of us.

This will pass but as I've said it'll take at least a couple of generations.  In the meantime I live in a territory where modern treaties have been signed and I don't see 1st Nations people here jumping up and down for more, they're to busy gearing up for a new future.  Increasing social, historical, and economic benefits of reconciliation couldn't be clearer. Treaty settlements are just about the biggest economic driver in the region.  You shouldn't say something can't be done when people are actually doing it.

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No, we're not.

Yeah we really are, I have friends my age who were abused and raped when they were kids - at the same time I was being used in government photo-ops for Canada's Centennial celebration.
 

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I notice you don't have anything else to answer to that. Because progressives DO ignore the misogyny in the Muslim world, or make excuses for it, both abroad and here in Canada.

You don't know me very well. I have quite a bit more of a pagan ethos than you allow for. 

If I was in charge our battle fleet along with a fleet of like minded nations would be positioned off the coast of Iran on a human rights mission in preparation of changing the regime there.  Sanctions would also be in place against any other country that treats women the way many Muslims do.  I'd actually put the trillion dollar military you'd rather see sitting around on its ass to work.

But since there's little to no likelihood of that ever happening we should scrap your trillion dollar idea and invest in making our selves into a better people.

 

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In fact, one of the things one notices about Canada (and the US) and the obsession our mass media has with racism is that it's a one way obsession. I.e., any story of a white person being racist gets nationwide coverage. Any story about racism or bigotry on the part of a minority - and there are MANY - gets completely ignored.

The most racist, bigoted people in Canada are its minorities. But you'll never find progressives mentioning that. Likewise, you'll find the US media ignoring things like the repeated violent attacks on Asians by Blacks who are acting our of pure hatred. Same thing happens in Canada and our media ignore it too.

 

That's just your jaded old blah blah blah talking. You should try harder to ignore it yourself.  It's the biggest reason the process of reconciling will take generations. Progress however will grind on but in the meantime you can probably feel proud of your efforts to keep progress to a glacial pace.

Edited by eyeball
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6 hours ago, I am Groot said:

What do you think children are taught in school today about Canada's past? Are they taught how people with axes and mules built a nation or are they treated to a litany of exaggerated sob stories about how cruel and unjust everyone prior to this generation was towards every imaginable minority.

Children should learn history. 
They should learn about the hard work that went into settling Canada and also the injustices that happened.  
 

It’s a bigger problem when the injustices aren’t taught, because when kids later learn of them; they become distrustful of their society.  You say you want a better, unified Canada.  Teach it all; the good and the bad.  

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