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A few words from a retiring General


Army Guy

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7 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

PS. Woke means being aware of injustice. Who, in their right mind, is in favour of injustice. I would think being woke is a virtue

Who is in favour of injustice. Those who benefit, even if it's just from being reassured they're not the only arse hole around.

General Dork, why he'd stop all this woke shit. Ban women from the military, then there's be none of this sexual harassment bullshit. Harrumph!!

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Disagree.  We could go through it line by line and draw the parallels, but do you really care?  I suspect not.  My favorite part about the whole thing is how he complained about collective apologies (with the context of our recent history discovering mass-graves near residential schools) in a room full of totem polls shortly after watching an aboriginal dance performance.  Talk about tone-deaf.  

I'm not really too sure what you think Scandinavian social programs have with cancel culture in Canada.  

Wow you really are out of the loop.  It turned out that the “mass grave” story wasn’t true or was a mischaracterization.  The radar readings weren’t always accurate and the burials were usually community burials related to disease.  What was clear was that too many students were in close proximity during epidemics, as Dr. Bryce explained a century ago.  I guess the propaganda worked on you though.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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5 minutes ago, herbie said:

Who is in favour of injustice. Those who benefit, even if it's just from being reassured they're not the only arse hole around.

General Dork, why he'd stop all this woke shit. Ban women from the military, then there's be none of this sexual harassment bullshit. Harrumph!!

They probably shouldn’t be in combat roles unless waivers are signed because the expectations are often watered down for equity sake.  It puts all soldiers at risk because of the compromises made. Sorry but that’s human biology.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it's not about money

Canada is one of the biggest defence spenders in the world

Canada spends $22 billion USD

Israel spends $21 billion USD

Turkey spends $20 billion USD

Spain spends $17 billion USD

Singapore spends $11 billion USD

 

I wonder how much of this money is lost to boondoggle bureaucracy: canceled contracts, litigation, the typical administration-heavy and grift-tendered nonsense that infects our Canadian institutions today.

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I wonder how much of this money is lost to boondoggle bureaucracy: canceled contracts, litigation, the typical administration-heavy and grift-tendered nonsense that infects our Canadian institutions today.

the Canadian military will be saved by the spread of civil disorder

eventually the federal government will be forced to mobilize and put the tanks in the streets

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12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

As long as it’s against foreign threats, not Canadian civilians.  After last February I think the latter is more likely.

oh it will be against Canadians

the economy will at some point implode

then all heck us going to break loose

the federal government will be at the threshold of losing control

then they will be forced to invoke martial law "in aid to the civil power"

you'll see the Leopard 2's on Parliament Hill, protecting the politicians from the angry mobs

dMwFMZoozwWj5AubIP7vpZ_Wnd0GYjpPqhH1MmDv

Edited by Dougie93
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28 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

oh it will be against Canadians

the economy will at some point implode

then all heck us going to break loose

the federal government will be at the threshold of losing control

then they will be forced to invoke martial law "in aid to the civil power"

you'll see the Leopard 2's on Parliament Hill, protecting the politicians from the angry mobs

dMwFMZoozwWj5AubIP7vpZ_Wnd0GYjpPqhH1MmDv

One clear message I got from this pandemic is that self-preservation and offloading responsibilities is what our leadership does most and best, “to keep us safe.”  Lol

I also love how an advisor merely has to think something, without evidence, to make it true.  “Some extremist may attack the public” was a justification for the Emergencies Act, freezing of bank accounts, etc.

God help us if we get digital currencies and IDs that can be deplatformed and shut off.  Theft of assets for reasons of political disagreement suddenly became a crime that would be applied retroactively during the protests.

 I hope the military wouldn’t act against the people.   Our government has demonstrated that it can because it did.

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

One clear message I got from this pandemic is that self-preservation and offloading responsibilities is what our leadership does most and best, “to keep us safe.”  Lol

this is not limited to Canada

since it will be a global financial & economic implosion inciting cascading sovereign defaults

quite sure you will see tanks in the streets all around the world

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Wow you really are out of the loop.  It turned out that the “mass grave” story wasn’t true or was a mischaracterization.  The radar readings weren’t always accurate and the burials were usually community burials related to disease. 

Yes that's fair.  Mass graves is a mischaracterization that's bounced around everywhere (including my post).  What they do know is that thousands of childrens died and/or went missing at residential schools, and over a thousand potential unmarked graves have been identified.  Many of these investigations only started this summer, but I'd argue the most important part of the story is how many natives died in residential schools.  🤷‍♂️

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I have advocated the Swiss model for defence, however our situation is complicated by our coast line. Switzerland has, or did have, the largest military force in Europe, but no need for a navy. For Canada, building the navy would be the most expensive aspect, followed closely by the RCAF. We should build our own weapons. I am aware of the theory that US built planes and tanks produced for export could have a built-in kill switch. (If they haven't, they should.) Israel has their tanks designed by the people who use them. 

A viable military force must be able to take on any enemy. The cost would be over $900 billion plus the enormous cost of tooling up the manufacturing infrastructure.  

All of this is academic. No government could survive re-building the Canadian Armed Forces to a level beyond a token size.

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39 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

All of this is academic. No government could survive re-building the Canadian Armed Forces to a level beyond a token size.

Not really true.  If we doubled our military budget, it wouldn't bankrupt us.  We'd need a small increase to taxes or to cut the fat our somewhere else.  We'd still not have a big military capable of much force projection, but it would be a far cry better than what we have now.  

We waste a lot of money these days.  If Army Guy is right about anything, it's that Trudeau is fast and loose with our money.  

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11 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Where is all this money to fund defence supposed to come from? If Canadian tax payers are unwilling to pay for a viable military, don't blame the government. Blame the people who whine about carbon taxes, income taxes, and property taxes. The government has to do what the people want and, since the war in Viet Nam, defence has not been a priority of taxpayers.

Canada has always had the privelege to be defended by the best of the best. It is sad that there is just not enough of them. That is our choice. We call it democracy.

PS. Woke means being aware of injustice. Who, in their right mind, is in favour of injustice. I would think being woke is a virtue

This question makes me chuckle, I'll tell you why, nobody in Canada even blinked when we spent 600 plus billion during the pandemic, less than 1/2 of that was actually spent on the pandemic.

Germany is planning to spend 100 this year alone, on defense, Australia is spending 300 billion over the next 3 to 5 years on defense, they went through the same pandemic, plus their GDP is much smaller than ours...

We should tally up what childcare is going to cost 9 bil the first year, and dental care billions more...  No problem with coming up with those numbers.

I guess that lets our government off the hook then, and here i thought they were the leaders of this nation, got paid the big bucks to make popular choices and the unpopular ones. But i guess that is what responsible governments do, ones lead by polls and best guesses is why most federal departments are in disarray. Maybe one day we will get a government that true interest is in what is best for the country. still plenty of ways to keep taxpayers happy with other issues.

Queen i saw some of our bravest and youngest Canadian kids die on a battlefield in some forgotten country, crying for their mothers, asking comrades to tell their wife's that they loved them, to look after his family when he is gone. to make death bed promises that were impossible to keep, it was not just one or two, but dozens, it ripped my heart out each and every time. and it all comes down to this, money...It is one huge wakeup call to think this is what Canadians are made of this is how much empathy we have; this is how much loyalty we have towards those that risked or lost their lives for this nation. It is telling just how greedy we are as a nation, how thoughtless we have become, how unpatriotic we are.

If we went down the 159 soldiers killed in Afghanistan, found out how they died and could we have saved them with new modern military equipment that number would represent well over 1/2 those killed, if not 2/3. Your statement, This and past governments have used time and time again, what it comes down to is this it is cheaper to bury our soldiers, than to give them the proper tools and training to come home to their families, these soldiers are Canadian citizens, they pay taxes, and have Canadian families so why are they left out in the cold. because they are not thought of as true Canadians. But made up of the lowest class of this nation, expendable...

Knowing all of that our government and it's citizens continue to send them to conflict areas regardless of how they are trained or equipped, and then to add insult to injury those killed or injured have to beg for help when they return. And the answer we get in return for this service is You are asking for more than we can give right now.  

Maybe Canadians should visit these families torn apart by conflict, that had to watch their husbands and wives suffer in silence until they took, they're own lives, becasue they could no longer cope with life. that number is well past 400 soldiers to date.

What is your life worth to you, 

Canada has paid a huge price in lives for not being prepared, for any conflict we have been in, WWI, WWII, Korea, we sent raw civilians with 6 weeks of training off to war in some cases with even less training, 3 times now and still we have not learned that Leason, are we stupid or are we just that cheap. well judging by our actions i'd say cheap...with stupid coming in a close second. Once again it is cheaper to bury our soldiers than to give them the right equipment and training. what are your sons or daughters lives worth... not much, i guess. 

Thats not democracy, that's being ignorant of the cost of freedom, that protects all the other rights we have in this nation. 

I know the meaning of woke, queen, i did not invent the term or how it is used today. It has noble beginnings, but it has turned into something very ugly today. all it is going to accomplish is turn the tables on those that were once the oppressors, making those doing the turning no better than the original dic*s. that was never the objective of the original movement.    

 

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2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I have advocated the Swiss model for defence, however our situation is complicated by our coast line. Switzerland has, or did have, the largest military force in Europe, but no need for a navy. For Canada, building the navy would be the most expensive aspect, followed closely by the RCAF. We should build our own weapons. I am aware of the theory that US built planes and tanks produced for export could have a built-in kill switch. (If they haven't, they should.) Israel has their tanks designed by the people who use them. 

 

A viable military force must be able to take on any enemy. The cost would be over $900 billion plus the enormous cost of tooling up the manufacturing infrastructure.  

All of this is academic. No government could survive re-building the Canadian Armed Forces to a level beyond a token size.

Building here in Canada is why our ship building program has nearly reached 90 bil, Canadian companies have taken our tax dollars for a ride every chance they get, what started out as a 12 bil project has ballooned to over 90, with no stopping in the future. why is it Britain can build almost the same ship for a 1/2 of the cost, let's not even mention Australia which have more boat for less dollars. with a late bid coming in after the deadline for a 1/3 of the cost... Many overseas shipyards could build better for a lot cheaper. but we got to feed the machine, keep ship building in Canada...like that was some major contributor to GDP, Irvings keep their money overseas, so it's not taxed by the Canadian tax man. 

900 billion, that's a pretty huge number... i think the number put out by DND was 300 billion to give back our original capabilities we had in the 90's, that study was in 2015 i think. that buys a lot of toy's. and increase our military numbers up to 95, to 100 K still small compared to other G-8 nations.  

Most of the government offsets they demand the manufacturer builds the sites. such as Gerenal dynamics did for the LAV plant, which has supplied not only the US military, Canadian military, and more.

Canada will always have a token size force, we don't really need a huge force, we what we lack in size we make up for in skill. or use to now training is being cut back  

It really is a simple exercise, other nations are already doing it, most NATO countries are now approaching 2 % GDP or more, and yet we are proud we are in the bottom of the pile, despite our promises and signatures on NATO policies. and we wonder why our reputation is in tatters...

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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Yes that's fair.  Mass graves is a mischaracterization that's bounced around everywhere (including my post).  What they do know is that thousands of childrens died and/or went missing at residential schools, and over a thousand potential unmarked graves have been identified.  Many of these investigations only started this summer, but I'd argue the most important part of the story is how many natives died in residential schools.  🤷‍♂️

Compared to what? Compared to how many natives died on their reserves? Have you ever seen such a comparison?

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10 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Are not the values of pacifism and resisting injustice (woke) what Jesus preached? One of the 10 commandments was "Thou shalt not kill." God did not qualify that with any mention that it was okay to kill Russians, jews, Japanese, communists, muslims. It was an emphatic "Thou shalt not kill!" Our Judeo-Christian values teach us to help the poor, forgive those who trespass against us, turn the other cheek and basically share what we have with those who have little.

In a perfect world, if we had a powerful enough military, they would not have to kill anyone. The problem is to have an effective military, we need a defence budget of about one trillion dollars, conscription, and a few thousand nuclear weapons. So, are you willing to pay that?

What exactly do you think the army teaches young men in the combat arms to do, you claim to have served in a Infantry Regt, did you Regt hand out flowers or blankets, holding hands and sing kumbaya... no they were taught to close with and destroy our nations enemies, foreign and domestic...Your Regt has a long and proud combat history, none of it was handing out flowers or blankets. God is always on the side of those that are righteous, we can send as many of those heathens to *ell as we can. as God is on our side or so they say.

Man, if given the chance will show you his evil side in a flash, once the normal checks and balances are taken away, then mother nature takes over and it is survival of the fittest. and judging by the number of conflicts in the world today evil is up and running at full strength. All man has to do for evil to flourish, is for him to turn a blind eye.  i like this quote walk tall and carry a big stick.

Man is always going to be in conflict, until the end of days... and if you're not prepared properly then you're going to be someone *itch. Nobody on this planet has a defense budget even approaching one trillion dollars, except the US... not even any of the biggest bad guys...not sure where you're getting your numbers but at least come back to this planet.

Edited by Army Guy
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10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You pretty much nailed it there.   

The headline for this article should have been, "Out of touch old boomer rambles bitterly about millennials and how things were better in the good old days."

Tell us more about how much you hate the woke and cancel-culture, please.  We really need to hear more about it.  

Maybe you can tell us what part of his speech has you howling at the moon, I think you have accused others on this forum, well at least me of a couple Linners that really have no substance nor actually contribute. if i thought it would not spark debate i would not have posted it, i think that's what a forum is about right debate, indulge me why you think this is upsetting?

He basically lays out what is wrong with today's military, I think he mentions woke, and canceled culture in a couple of lines out of pages...

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8 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Nobody has the right to sexually harrass anyone. It is a sad statement on the current standard of discipline and professionalism when a few members are unable to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Their actions are prejudicial to the good of the service.

100 % right, but lets not judge the other 55,000 members with the same brush, thats is what the media is doing,  there are asshats in every profession, it is being highlighted in most Government departments, like RCMP, Coast Guard, even border services, they all have one thing in common, they are all Canadians, look on the civil side look at the problem we have at Universities, collages, police forces, fire halls, city halls, even Justin had a complaint at one time.  

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5 hours ago, herbie said:

Who is in favour of injustice. Those who benefit, even if it's just from being reassured they're not the only arse hole around.

General Dork, why he'd stop all this woke shit. Ban women from the military, then there's be none of this sexual harassment bullshit. Harrumph!!

Must of been a different article, where did he say ban women form the military, or he is ok with sexual harassment could you show me where he said that or your just *issing into the wind, becasue you can't explain why this article makes you mad. 

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5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

They probably shouldn’t be in combat roles unless waivers are signed because the expectations are often watered down for equity sake.  It puts all soldiers at risk because of the compromises made. Sorry but that’s human biology.  

Just on a side note, i have personally seen a female medic about 130 lbs if that, pick up a wounded infanteer maybe 200 lbs plus 50 lbs of kit, carry him down a narrow ally way about 300 meters under enemy machine gun fire, and never miss a beat. Grant you the fastest Olympic runner has never been motivated by machine gun fire, but I'm sure she broke a world record that day. Her actions did not receive any rewards, despite all the letters that were written by people that were there. The human body can do incredible things when forced to, guys have lifted cars off accident victims by themselves. 

My point is if you can meet the men's standard then welcome aboard, it has been done many times, just not as common as the men do. what i disagree with is lowering the standard to accommodate more women, this is what puts the safety of others at risk.  

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10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Just on a side note, i have personally seen a female medic about 130 lbs if that, pick up a wounded infanteer maybe 200 lbs plus 50 lbs of kit, carry him down a narrow ally way about 300 meters under enemy machine gun fire, and never miss a beat. Grant you the fastest Olympic runner has never been motivated by machine gun fire, but I'm sure she broke a world record that day. Her actions did not receive any rewards, despite all the letters that were written by people that were there. The human body can do incredible things when forced to, guys have lifted cars off accident victims by themselves. 

My point is if you can meet the men's standard then welcome aboard, it has been done many times, just not as common as the men do. what i disagree with is lowering the standard to accommodate more women, this is what puts the safety of others at risk.  

I agree basically.  If women can meet the standards, fair enough. However, I think that in a real combat tour, say in Afghanistan, the impact of a female soldier being caught by the enemy is not one that most rational people would accept — rape, etc.  I think the main purpose of a military is to protect women and children. and I think most male soldiers would expend a lot of energy and time protecting female soldiers in combat.  I think the stress and loneliness would be hard to manage and make it easy for lines to be crossed professionally.

 I guess it’s a question of how many resources and how much risk you want to want to put forth to meet an equity goal because some women can meet the standard.  I think this and the inevitable MeToo “he said she said” are causing all sorts of grief and litigation.  Conscientious leaders are wringing their hands publicly and being called sexist dinosaurs, etc.  The military doesn’t need this.  I know deep down that if Canada was in a serious big war, much of the woke rhetoric would disappear, but unfortunately we wouldn’t have a military ready for battle, not really.  We’ll of course carry on down this path, giving key posts to people I wouldn’t trust to defend my dog because sexism.

The other major issue I see is this constant attempt to do everything on the cheap   We get rid of divisions and lose the expertise or we pretend to still have the capacity by buying broken used equipment like subs.  When the government finally decides to procure the state of the art, the next government cancels it and taxpayers pay a penalty.  This is true from aircraft to ships.  I don’t believe any promises about icebreakers, helicopters, new fighter jets, or much else until the work is complete.

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