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A few words from a retiring General


Army Guy

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5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I asked you to provide some examples of where you thought it was irrelevant, or tone deaf, but if you don't want to respond then fine. it is obvious you don't like the article, or maybe it is all in my head.

No, you asked me why I was "howling at the moon" over the speech.   

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Sure if you want to take that route, I'd be glad to.   Not sure what ones are MAGA grievances, maybe you can outline all those in your response. I read the article a few time now, and have not found on reference to stolen elections, or Hilary Clinton. maybe you can point those out as well.

I was joking that the only MAGA talking point he didn't mention was the stolen elections.  Here are your MAGA grievances/talking points:

1.  Climate extremism ?

2.  Collective apologies (in the context of 4000 dead/missing residential school students, or sexual harassment problems within military leadership in Canada)

3.  "Erasing history" (an absurd idea, but no doubt pointing to statues being taken down etc) 

4.  The untrustworthy MSM and the young, woke journalists 

5.  Cancel-culture - according to him as soon as you're merely accused of something you're DONE!

6.  Socialism (those darned entitled kids getting their endless handouts). 

7.  "Special interest groups" 

8.  Comments about divisive leaders, pointedly implicating Hilary Clinton and her "deplorables" comments while curiously not saying anything about Donald Trump, who's been by far the most divisive leader in US history.  

9.  Canada can be Great again

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It may sound like my whole objective here is to make fun of you, but it is not i want to understand the other side of the story, what is it you don't like about the mans speech? 

I told you already.  The man's speech reads like an old Trumpy boomer complaining about millennials.  Some of these comments in isolation would probably be unremarkable, but to go on a long, winding diatribe about all of the above in an acceptance speech for a military service award was not only pretty bizarre, it also followed a pretty clear agenda.  He went out on soap box he was provided to rant his politics at people, and they were all following a boringly predictable template.  

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

No, you asked me why I was "howling at the moon" over the speech.   

I was joking that the only MAGA talking point he didn't mention was the stolen elections.  Here are your MAGA grievances/talking points:

1.  Climate extremism ?

2.  Collective apologies (in the context of 4000 dead/missing residential school students, or sexual harassment problems within military leadership in Canada)

3.  "Erasing history" (an absurd idea, but no doubt pointing to statues being taken down etc) 

4.  The untrustworthy MSM and the young, woke journalists 

5.  Cancel-culture - according to him as soon as you're merely accused of something you're DONE!

6.  Socialism (those darned entitled kids getting their endless handouts). 

7.  "Special interest groups" 

8.  Comments about divisive leaders, pointedly implicating Hilary Clinton and her "deplorables" comments while curiously not saying anything about Donald Trump, who's been by far the most divisive leader in US history.  

9.  Canada can be Great again

I told you already.  The man's speech reads like an old Trumpy boomer complaining about millennials.  Some of these comments in isolation would probably be unremarkable, but to go on a long, winding diatribe about all of the above in an acceptance speech for a military service award was not only pretty bizarre, it also followed a pretty clear agenda.  He went out on soap box he was provided to rant his politics at people, and they were all following a boringly predictable template.  

Because you are, howling over a man's thoughts on maybe what is wrong with DND or the country, in his opinions, and that of many others that were at the awards show, and millions that were not. You've taken it personally like it was an attack on you, instead of listening to what is being said. It has nothing to do with MAGA or being a boomer. 

1. climate change, you're joking right now right, what are you doing about it, what is your government doing about it? what are you doing about your governments lack of action or are you content with their action? 

2. collective apologies, you mean the well 5 dozen of groups of people that this government have had apologies given out to. From first nation to black construction Bn from WWI, so many that do they really mean anything accept we as a nation are good at saying I'm sorry. have you seen any meaningful reparations made, that are still not in the courts, you know the ones our liberal government is fighting.

3. what do you call it when you tear down a statue because if offends someone in this century, remove it from school education platform, it is call changing history, like it or not it is our history, and it should be taught in schools, so we don't forget it or make those same mistakes.

4. this is your problem, if you think this is not a reality then ya your problem, not all young journalists are woke but their seems to be a high concentration. 

5. Cancel culture does not exist it is all in my head...I can list you 3 Generals off the top of my head that have been forced out on an accusation not even proven in a court of law. Their careers are done...but it goes on it does not have to be about sexual assault or misconduct, it could be anything, any perception of doing something wrong gets you canceled. 

6. this just slaps everyone in the face, the problem is only boomers can see it. Fuc*ing boomers they made the whole thing up. your generation has no more patriotism for this nation than i do now. 

7. special interest groups run this country, or highly influence it 

8. divisive leadership comments all true, and no where did i see Hilary clintons name, he is referring to DND's and our government, but sorry not hilliary, i could be wrong nor does he mention trump either, very strange. what does good leadership mean to you?

9. Give me a break, make Canada great again triggers you? 

Thats why your triggered, becasue your a Millennials and you don't take critism well, you can give it out but recieving not so much.

What you see as a long-winded speech, i see a person who is speaking out, against some of things he has seen in his career. i should explain a career, but more of a way of life, the military was his life, his mission, his total dedication, it controlled his entire being. it was not a job...but his life... With that many years of service he has been beaten by this nation over and over again and you were expecting him to be surrounded by puppies, and flowers shooting out of his a$$...instead he vented a few minutes on his final award ceremony. It happens a lot in the military, but you have not experienced it...and why should you have , not many Canadians really care what happens in our military... this has been happening for decades, did you think we are mindless drones that just follow orders, and not aware of what was happening in the outside world.

If you're to sensitive to see those things as things to improve on, then disregard step away, i have not heard anyone sticking a gun to you head saying listen up mother trucker...it is not about your generation, our any generations it is where our country is today, and how it effects the Military good or bad.. 

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Because you are, howling over a man's thoughts on maybe what is wrong with DND or the country, in his opinions, and that of many others that were at the awards show, and millions that were not. You've taken it personally like it was an attack on you, instead of listening to what is being said. It has nothing to do with MAGA or being a boomer. 

You're projecting emotions on me that don't exist.  As you said, this speech will be quickly forgotten and considered irrelevant.  A retiring officer using his award acceptance speech as a soap box to natter off his bitter worldviews isn't worthy of much attention, or regard.  

Whether or not you agreed with the dude's ramblings wasn't really what we were talking about either, was it?  Even I agreed with some of it (like the statues coming down, or the military needing more funding and equipment as part of recruitment efforts).  What we were presumably talking about was how many parallels I could draw to MAGA slogans and grievances.  This guy wasn't providing thoughtful, articulate criticism either.  He was just nattering off a list of things he didn't like and vaguely complaining about them.  

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Thats why your triggered, becasue your a Millennials and you don't take critism well, you can give it out but recieving not so much.

Sure.  I'm a Millennial and don't take criticism well.  ?‍♂️

You realize we just acted out a cliché right? You get yourself worked up and go on a rant, and I don't listen (or read) most of it because you're not saying anything I haven't heard 100 times before, and I respond with "okay boomer".  It's such a mystery why guys like Michel Maisonneuve are failing to win young hearts and minds.  

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You're projecting emotions on me that don't exist.  As you said, this speech will be quickly forgotten and considered irrelevant.  A retiring officer using his award acceptance speech as a soap box to natter off his bitter worldviews isn't worthy of much attention, or regard.  

Whether or not you agreed with the dude's ramblings wasn't really what we were talking about either, was it?  Even I agreed with some of it (like the statues coming down, or the military needing more funding and equipment as part of recruitment efforts).  What we were presumably talking about was how many parallels I could draw to MAGA slogans and grievances.  This guy wasn't providing thoughtful, articulate criticism either.  He was just nattering off a list of things he didn't like and vaguely complaining about them.  

Sure.  I'm a Millennial and don't take criticism well.  ?‍♂️

You realize we just acted out a cliché right? You get yourself worked up and go on a rant, and I don't listen (or read) most of it because you're not saying anything I haven't heard 100 times before, and I respond with "okay boomer".  It's such a mystery why guys like Michel Maisonneuve are failing to win young hearts and minds.  

Zero respect and even less honour. 

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11 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You're projecting emotions on me that don't exist.  As you said, this speech will be quickly forgotten and considered irrelevant.  A retiring officer using his award acceptance speech as a soap box to natter off his bitter worldviews isn't worthy of much attention, or regard.  

Whether or not you agreed with the dude's ramblings wasn't really what we were talking about either, was it?  Even I agreed with some of it (like the statues coming down, or the military needing more funding and equipment as part of recruitment efforts).  What we were presumably talking about was how many parallels I could draw to MAGA slogans and grievances.  This guy wasn't providing thoughtful, articulate criticism either.  He was just nattering off a list of things he didn't like and vaguely complaining about them.  

Sure.  I'm a Millennial and don't take criticism well.  ?‍♂️

You realize we just acted out a cliché right? You get yourself worked up and go on a rant, and I don't listen (or read) most of it because you're not saying anything I haven't heard 100 times before, and I respond with "okay boomer".  It's such a mystery why guys like Michel Maisonneuve are failing to win young hearts and minds.  

The lack of respect is owing to a coddled, inexperienced, naïve millennial perspective.  It’s not the general’s problem.  There’s nothing specifically MAGA about the speech, but you’ll dismiss wisdom if some MAGA supporters have some of these ideas. It’s illustrative of an over-sensitive, bubble-wrapped, uncritical mind raised on everyone-gets-a-ribbon pablum. 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

The lack of respect is owing to a coddled, inexperienced, naïve millennial perspective.  It’s not the general’s problem.

Old people whinging about the young'uns - tale as old as time, as certain as death and taxes.  

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

 There’s nothing specifically MAGA about the speech, but you’ll dismiss wisdom if some MAGA supporters have some of these ideas. It’s illustrative of an over-sensitive, uncritical mind raised on everyone-gets-a-ribbon pablum. 

You're right that it wasn't specifically MAGA.  Calling it wisdom is a laugh though, since all he did was parrott a long list of MAGA grievances for the Canadian perspective without expanding on them or providing any original thoughts or ideas.  You could have replaced Michel Maisonneuve with any Minnesota farmer, told him not to talk about Mexicans or stolen elections, and you'd have heard a similar rant.  

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16 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You're projecting emotions on me that don't exist.  As you said, this speech will be quickly forgotten and considered irrelevant.  A retiring officer using his award acceptance speech as a soap box to natter off his bitter worldviews isn't worthy of much attention, or regard.  

Whether or not you agreed with the dude's ramblings wasn't really what we were talking about either, was it?  Even I agreed with some of it (like the statues coming down, or the military needing more funding and equipment as part of recruitment efforts).  What we were presumably talking about was how many parallels I could draw to MAGA slogans and grievances.  This guy wasn't providing thoughtful, articulate criticism either.  He was just nattering off a list of things he didn't like and vaguely complaining about them.  

Sure.  I'm a Millennial and don't take criticism well.  ?‍♂️

You realize we just acted out a cliché right? You get yourself worked up and go on a rant, and I don't listen (or read) most of it because you're not saying anything I haven't heard 100 times before, and I respond with "okay boomer".  It's such a mystery why guys like Michel Maisonneuve are failing to win young hearts and minds.  

this is why my generation, and your generation are oil and water, your incapable of listening, and when you do you did not hear the message. You heard whatever you wanted to, like trump and Hilery Clinton, not even mentioned in the story at all. You can't be bothered with the boomer generation they are poison; you've already learned everything you need to. And you're tired of listening now you want to act. well soon your generation will be in the breach, it will be your turn to lead and take the reins. 

Each generation starts off the same way, thinking they know everything, giving no credit to the previous generation, until it is their time to take the reins, and leadership of the nation. you'll falter and make the same mistakes as the previous generation. it is the circle of life.. I read the entire article over and over. not one sentence was "you had better read this and take heed" or was it a history Leason addressed to you, or to most of the nation. It main audience was military men and women and a few civilians at an award show... If the message went over your head fine, and you saw it as a threat to you and your generation and came out swinging...once again i don't think the author cares..

 

 

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Old people whinging about the young'uns - tale as old as time, as certain as death and taxes.  

You're right that it wasn't specifically MAGA.  Calling it wisdom is a laugh though, since all he did was parrott a long list of MAGA grievances for the Canadian perspective without expanding on them or providing any original thoughts or ideas.  You could have replaced Michel Maisonneuve with any Minnesota farmer, told him not to talk about Mexicans or stolen elections, and you'd have heard a similar rant.  

No you couldn’t 

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2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

this is why my generation, and your generation are oil and water, your incapable of listening, and when you do you did not hear the message. You heard whatever you wanted to, like trump and Hilery Clinton, not even mentioned in the story at all.

What would you say this was about then:

“can you imagine a military leader labelling half of his command as deplorables, fringe radicals and less-thans and then expect them to fight as one?”

Are you going to honestly say that wasn't a Hilary reference?  ?

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

You can't be bothered with the boomer generation they are poison; you've already learned everything you need to. And you're tired of listening now you want to act. well soon your generation will be in the breach, it will be your turn to lead and take the reins. 

I've no problem with the baby boom generation at large.  I just have little regard or attention to spare to tedious old grumps who feel the need to talk down to younger generations and pontificate on how they're so much worse than the generations that came before.  ?

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

It main audience was military men and women and a few civilians at an award show... If the message went over your head fine, and you saw it as a threat to you and your generation and came out swinging...once again i don't think the author cares...

a threat?  I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat it, but this speech was irrelevant.  He talks about recruitment crisis but then whines about collective apologies (implied: towards Natives) and statues coming down (of figures that Native Canadians find troubling for their history), knowing full-well that Natives make up a disproportionate number of soldiers in the military. 

In the same speech he rails against cancel-culture while the CF's leadership is mired in sexual harassment scandals with an increasingly large female makeup. He complains about uniform and hair color/facial hair standards being changed to reflect a more diverse membership, and then tops it all off with a condescending rant about young people and their culture of entitlement, knowing full-well (once again) that this is the demographic the CF needs most.  

Michel Maisonneuve couldn't have done a much worse job making the case for young people to join than he did here, and to have so many officers present cheer his tone-deaf rambling just made the optics worse.  

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14 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

What would you say this was about then:

“can you imagine a military leader labelling half of his command as deplorables, fringe radicals and less-thans and then expect them to fight as one?”

Are you going to honestly say that wasn't a Hilary reference?  ?

I've no problem with the baby boom generation at large.  I just have little regard or attention to spare to tedious old grumps who feel the need to talk down to younger generations and pontificate on how they're so much worse than the generations that came before.  ?

a threat?  I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat it, but this speech was irrelevant.  He talks about recruitment crisis but then whines about collective apologies (implied: towards Natives) and statues coming down (of figures that Native Canadians find troubling for their history), knowing full-well that Natives make up a disproportionate number of soldiers in the military. 

In the same speech he rails against cancel-culture while the CF's leadership is mired in sexual harassment scandals with an increasingly large female makeup. He complains about uniform and hair color/facial hair standards being changed to reflect a more diverse membership, and then tops it all off with a condescending rant about young people and their culture of entitlement, knowing full-well (once again) that this is the demographic the CF needs most.  

Michel Maisonneuve couldn't have done a much worse job making the case for young people to join than he did here, and to have so many officers present cheer his tone-deaf rambling just made the optics worse.  

Quote

Secondly, cohesion, acceptance and tolerance. Today’s leaders must stop dividing those they lead! Hasn’t history shown us that success as a leader demands cohesion, unity and respect of all those they lead — not just those who agree wholeheartedly with them? Can you imagine a military leader labelling half of his command as deplorables, fringe radicals or less-thans and then expect them to fight as one? Today’s leaders must find a way to unite; not divide.

He is talking about today's leaders, and how much division they have created, Justin rings a bell, He uses the example of Can you Imagine a military leader, who those his chain of command under the bus and then expecting them to fight as one team...Then states today's leaders must unite not divide... sorry no Hillary in there at all. Your just putting words in there that just are not their not sure out of desperation to make your point or you really did not understand his points. 

I know sometimes the truth hurts.

maybe by repeating it often enough it will become true, i don' t know what to tell you, but you keep seeing ghosts or phases that you think can be pinned on MAGA, but really he has'nt even mentioned them at all, his crowd he is talking to are Canadians in the crowd, that and Military members, he knows who is talking to and not everyone talks continuedly about trump or MAGA, just the left, not the center. 

Maybe i want to have a PM that actually means what he is apologizing for. it was Justin who created a day for reconciliation, and then missed it to go surfing... it was a great political move, it shows indigenous people that his words are meaningless. while still forcing them to go to court to collect what the human rights organization recommended...Like most of his apologizing meaningless done for photo ops only. That is what he was commenting on, but again you missed the boat on that translation.

It is Canadian history, it represents all of us, and the native Americans have taken it pieces of it out of context and have cherry picked what is bad and what is good. please explain why Queen Elizibeth queen Victoria had to be torn down. I also do not support the tearing down of statue of rosy parks either. but anyone can tear down what they want these days. 

I know i am bad at math, but how does your words Mired in sexual assault cases even add up lets do some math we have 5 generals accused by not proven of sexual assault, maybe another 100 cases with in the forces, out of 65,000 troops...what percentage does that worked out to and does it equal "mired" when Canada's universities and collages have much higher rates of assaults and nothing really being done to attract attention to that problem. I get it one is to many especially for a profession forces, one that is taken from across the country. My point is this is a Canadian problem not just the militaries. But i get it, we need to point fingers at someone, just not at ourselves. 

Sure, diverse membership or balancing a flow chart which one is it. And if coloring your hair purple is how you're picking your next career or wearing it in a man bun, facial jeweler, wearing a mix of men and women's, women's clothing then one would need to look at your priorities.  Just how many people that fit in this category are actually looking for a career in the forces. 

I just want to know how wearing all of this in the field or on operations when showers are few and far between, how long hair won't become a problem, with lice, bugs, or plain greasy that it wreaks, or body jewelry will not become infected, and just how bright colors used in hair dye will not affect camouflage efforts. Nobody has asked why these rules were in effect in the first place...

Just for the record release rates have gone up drastically after the new stupid, efforts to attract people who don't want to join the organization in the first place. So existing members are to blame here, no they have had enough with the left screwing with how military traditions have played a role for decades and worked.

Yes, all those tone-deaf generals and soldiers that were there, none of them have a clue on how to run an effective military force, what is needed to rebuild. Problem is those that are on the opposite side of the fence just like to chirp not join up and change the military into your vision...Your right this is one of the last straws, for a lot of soldiers... and most of those getting out are from "your generation", they did not join to look like a downtown play in Toronto, they joined to soldier...and the purple hair is not doing it for them. 

Optics are everything, new dress policies are making it worse. 

 

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3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

What would you say this was about then:

“can you imagine a military leader labelling half of his command as deplorables, fringe radicals and less-thans and then expect them to fight as one?”

Are you going to honestly say that wasn't a Hilary reference?  ?

I've no problem with the baby boom generation at large.  I just have little regard or attention to spare to tedious old grumps who feel the need to talk down to younger generations and pontificate on how they're so much worse than the generations that came before.  ?

a threat?  I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat it, but this speech was irrelevant.  He talks about recruitment crisis but then whines about collective apologies (implied: towards Natives) and statues coming down (of figures that Native Canadians find troubling for their history), knowing full-well that Natives make up a disproportionate number of soldiers in the military. 

In the same speech he rails against cancel-culture while the CF's leadership is mired in sexual harassment scandals with an increasingly large female makeup. He complains about uniform and hair color/facial hair standards being changed to reflect a more diverse membership, and then tops it all off with a condescending rant about young people and their culture of entitlement, knowing full-well (once again) that this is the demographic the CF needs most.  

Michel Maisonneuve couldn't have done a much worse job making the case for young people to join than he did here, and to have so many officers present cheer his tone-deaf rambling just made the optics worse.  

You’re just wrong on all counts, I mean every single one. That man has forgotten more than you’ve learned, as the saying goes.  Respect and learn from those who know and have the experience to back their views and authority.  Quite simply, his level is not the level of dilettantes and pretenders, nor cowards and amateurs.  I suggest that if you want a capable military that has purpose and value, heed his words.

Not everything is worthless or up for debate simply because it existed before you came on the scene.  In fact, it’s the fact that we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water that brought us to this point of dysfunction, because we used to have a highly effective military that was once one of the best in the world, probably the 4th most effective by the end of WW2.  What do you think the purpose of a military is, to dispense favours without the expectation of high standards?  Guess what, high military standards actually involve questions of battle-readiness, commitment, and clarity of mission.  It’s about much more than hairdos and uniforms, but here’s the rub: If you can’t handle a uniform and basic training, why should anyone expect you to manage taking orders to kill to defend your country?

Read The Greatest Generation, about the parents of the Boomers who fought in WW2.  Those are strong people who rose to greatness.  Our youth today have barely been allowed off the front porch.  It feels like a fin de siècle.  

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

He is talking about today's leaders, and how much division they have created, Justin rings a bell, He uses the example of Can you Imagine a military leader, who those his chain of command under the bus and then expecting them to fight as one team...Then states today's leaders must unite not divide... sorry no Hillary in there at all. Your just putting words in there that just are not their not sure out of desperation to make your point or you really did not understand his points. 

So he didn't bring up comments about "deplorables?" ? 

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

maybe by repeating it often enough it will become true, i don' t know what to tell you, but you keep seeing ghosts or phases that you think can be pinned on MAGA, but really he has'nt even mentioned them at all, his crowd he is talking to are Canadians in the crowd, that and Military members, he knows who is talking to and not everyone talks continuedly about trump or MAGA, just the left, not the center. 

My god dude.  I'm not saying he put a MAGA hat on.  I'm saying he was pushing a lot of the same talking points.  

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I know i am bad at math, but how does your words Mired in sexual assault cases even add up lets do some math we have 5 generals accused by not proven of sexual assault, maybe another 100 cases with in the forces, out of 65,000 troops...

5 generals - among the highest ranking members of the military and who should all be of unimpeachable moral character (or almost 4% of the active generals/admirals).  The fact that none of have been proven is notable, but spurious sexual assault allegations are rare.

As for the rest of the services, they're reporting on average 178/year, which is by my napkin math 3x higher than the national average. 

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Sure, diverse membership or balancing a flow chart which one is it. And if coloring your hair purple is how you're picking your next career or wearing it in a man bun, facial jeweler, wearing a mix of men and women's, women's clothing then one would need to look at your priorities.  Just how many people that fit in this category are actually looking for a career in the forces. 

Don't know.  If it's a low number, why are you so worried about it?  

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I just want to know how wearing all of this in the field or on operations when showers are few and far between, how long hair won't become a problem, with lice, bugs, or plain greasy that it wreaks, or body jewelry will not become infected, and just how bright colors used in hair dye will not affect camouflage efforts. Nobody has asked why these rules were in effect in the first place...

I'm betting that these soldiers will take care to look after themselves, and you're unlikely to have trans folk with long neon pink locks poking their heads out of the brush to wave their hair around, or wear jangling nose chains in combat zones.    

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Problem is those that are on the opposite side of the fence just like to chirp not join up and change the military into your vision...Your right this is one of the last straws, for a lot of soldiers... and most of those getting out are from "your generation", they did not join to look like a downtown play in Toronto, they joined to soldier...and the purple hair is not doing it for them. 

So I know quite a few retired millennial soldiers, and curiously not a single one of them mentioned any of these things.  What they did say was that there was a bloated and often clueless bureaucracy enforcing crappy culture that made serving (and particularly career advancement) a constant exercise in frustration.  We have 129 generals/admirals for 65,000 service members (and shrinking).  The US marines have ~60 generals for 180,000 service members.  

 

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23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re just wrong on all counts, I mean every single one. That man has forgotten more than you’ve learned, as the saying goes.  Respect and learn from those who know and have the experience to back their views and authority.

?

If he was talking purely about the military, I'd maybe listen carefully to what he has to say.  Because he's ranting vaguely about whatever was grinding his gears at his time, and about society in general, I take his comments for what they were - ranting.  

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29 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

?

If he was talking purely about the military, I'd maybe listen carefully to what he has to say.  Because he's ranting vaguely about whatever was grinding his gears at his time, and about society in general, I take his comments for what they were - ranting.  

That’s the heart of that matter that you’re missing completely.  It’s because of identity politics and fluff that has nothing to do with running an effective military that we’re in this mess.  We went from Harper and Obama, both of whom I admired and respected in many ways (despite Obama blowing it in Iraq by undemocratically supporting the losers of an election) to Biden and Trudeau, who have let the radical left drive policy.  If it wasn’t for Manchin and Sinema bringing reasonableness to the infrastructure bill, America’s inflation problems would be worse.  Trudeau spends more time pandering to left-wing special interests and throwing money at unnecessary pet projects than he does on the bread and butter of the economy.

This general is basically saying that leaders have gotten far outside of their lanes.  They’ve forgotten what’s important or they’re scared to defend what’s important for fear of cancellation.  He’s right.

If that’s too “socially conservative” for you, I won’t bother trying to convince you.

I agree with your point about our over abundance of senior leaders: “have 129 generals/admirals for 65,000 service members (and shrinking).  The US marines have ~60 generals for 180,000 service members”

 

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11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s the heart of that matter that you’re missing completely.  It’s because of identity politics and fluff that has nothing to do with running an effective military that we’re in this mess.  

You're right - The stuff he was complaining about has nothing to do with running an effective military.  This was nothing but bellyaching about liberal politics.  

The reason I brought up our bloated senior leadership is that this is just one among many problems the Canadian Forces have that have nothing to do with culture war dog whistles.   

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

You're right - The stuff he was complaining about has nothing to do with running an effective military.  This was nothing but bellyaching about liberal politics.  

The reason I brought up our bloated senior leadership is that this is just one among many problems the Canadian Forces have that have nothing to do with culture war dog whistles.   

The military is weighed down with identity politics nonsense to the extent of dysfunction.  

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The military is weighed down with identity politics nonsense to the extent of dysfunction.  

No, the military is weighed down by a bloated bureaucracy and senior leadership, as well as 40-50 years of neglect from our governments. 

The few soldiers that will get to have a purple streak in their hair, or grow a longer beard than the dinosaurs deem appropriate is really not the problem.  

 

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On 11/17/2022 at 5:20 PM, Army Guy said:

'Making Canada better': An excerpt from the anti-woke speech by a general that caused an uproar (msn.com)

There are many other media outlets that have covered the topic, but the leftist slant is almost to much.

 

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The military is weighed down with identity politics nonsense to the extent of dysfunction.  

Virtually every human institution on the planet is dysfunctional right now.

10 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

No, the military is weighed down by a bloated bureaucracy and senior leadership, as well as 40-50 years of neglect from our governments. 

The few soldiers that will get to have a purple streak in their hair, or grow a longer beard than the dinosaurs deem appropriate is really not the problem.  

He received a standing ovation from senior military officers in attendance.

Perhaps the problem is that there are to many conservatives bloating the military establishment in Canada.  That seems contradictory given how much conservatives like to pride themselves on trimming bloat to both save money and increase efficiency. 

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54 minutes ago, eyeball said:

He received a standing ovation from senior military officers in attendance.

I think it's noteworthy that many of the attending officers and servicemen did not applaud his speech, and that numerous senior military leaders have heavily criticized it.  Even the CDA, the organization handing the award out to Maisonneuve has publicly distance itself from him and made clear it didn't approve of his speech.  For a guy who ostensibly was trying to show the need for unity in Canada and the armed forces, his speech promoted anything but.  

I was talking to a buddy who recently left the CF (he was a logistics officer) about this speech and he pointed me towards a magazine he follows run by a former Canadian infantryman.  His take on the Maisonneuve speech couldn't have been much closer to my own:

http://espritdecorps.ca/on-target-4

 

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5 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I think it's noteworthy that many of the attending officers and servicemen did not applaud his speech, and that numerous senior military leaders have heavily criticized it.  Even the CDA, the organization handing the award out to Maisonneuve has publicly addressed the speech and made clear it doesn't agree with or share his sentiments.  For a guy who ostensibly was trying to show the need for unity in Canada and the armed forces, his speech promoted anything but.  

That's good to know.

Politics suck, everything does that gets saturated with it.

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21 hours ago, Moonbox said:

So he didn't bring up comments about "deplorables?" ? 

My god dude.  I'm not saying he put a MAGA hat on.  I'm saying he was pushing a lot of the same talking points.  

5 generals - among the highest ranking members of the military and who should all be of unimpeachable moral character (or almost 4% of the active generals/admirals).  The fact that none of have been proven is notable, but spurious sexual assault allegations are rare.

As for the rest of the services, they're reporting on average 178/year, which is by my napkin math 3x higher than the national average. 

Don't know.  If it's a low number, why are you so worried about it?  

I'm betting that these soldiers will take care to look after themselves, and you're unlikely to have trans folk with long neon pink locks poking their heads out of the brush to wave their hair around, or wear jangling nose chains in combat zones.    

So I know quite a few retired millennial soldiers, and curiously not a single one of them mentioned any of these things.  What they did say was that there was a bloated and often clueless bureaucracy enforcing crappy culture that made serving (and particularly career advancement) a constant exercise in frustration.  We have 129 generals/admirals for 65,000 service members (and shrinking).  The US marines have ~60 generals for 180,000 service members.  

 

I look at the definition of the word deplorables, and it does not mention Hilliary once. What dictionary did you use? 

Well shit he fits the description of a MAGA hat wearer, he's white, Christian, he's French that's got to be a minus somewhere, he looks racist as well. Yup, you proved your point. everything he is going to say is related to MAGA. 

There you have it, the military has to be unimpeachable... but our PM or any other government official, well they get a pass. They can lie, deceive, throw people under the bus, cheat, use tax dollars illegally, he faced an sexual assault accusation and it magically disappeared, he is not going to court to recover his reputation and his life is he. 

No group or organization is perfect, the Catholic church show us that, but like the media has said it is rampant in the military, while ignoring the rest of the Canadian population or other groups. 

National average is 39 % per women and 35 % for men. want to do the math again. well at least according to stats can. 

You also fail to identify what is all included in those numbers, what does DND include in their numbers, like calling you a name you don't like those offenses are included in those numbers. just like the real sexual offenses. 

Gender-based violence and unwanted sexual behaviour in Canada, 2018: Initial findings from the Survey of Safety in Public and Private Spaces (statcan.gc.ca)

So why even have purple hair of nose chains that is the question, becasue the military has a saying train as you fight, not how you train.. The reason why the military did not allow them before is becasue it will get you killed; it also draws attention to others in your group. So here we go round and round. 

Crappy culture... ya i used to think that as well, trust me it all sank in pretty quick after a few weeks of combat. the culture exists to save lives, don't jump on board then you come home in an aluminum casket or worse the guy you got killed comes home in one. 

If they are worried about how many generals there are, then they are thinking well above their pay grade. Career advancement is attached to the flow chart, if you're not the right color, or sex, or religion, or language, etc.  then it restricts your chances, many programs available to get a leg up over the competition. But ya making 65 k after 4 years' service and their complaining...maybe they were not the right fit, i don't know your guys, but i'm sure it sounds like the majority that leave early. 

Marines are not apples to apples, to different elements with two completely different jobs to do. But yes, we have a lot of generals which goes to point out there is progression on the officer side.

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I think it's noteworthy that many of the attending officers and servicemen did not applaud his speech, and that numerous senior military leaders have heavily criticized it.  Even the CDA, the organization handing the award out to Maisonneuve has publicly distance itself from him and made clear it didn't approve of his speech.  For a guy who ostensibly was trying to show the need for unity in Canada and the armed forces, his speech promoted anything but.  

I was talking to a buddy who recently left the CF (he was a logistics officer) about this speech and he pointed me towards a magazine he follows run by a former Canadian infantryman.  His take on the Maisonneuve speech couldn't have been much closer to my own:

http://espritdecorps.ca/on-target-4

 

Are you sure we read the same article, i get a much different read than you do. Here are some quotes from the article. Apparently, the crowd awarded him with a stand Ovation.... No mention on who just a mention of The crowd...

Quote

 

Even more specifically, Maisonneuve took issue with Chief of Defence Staff General Wayne Eyre’s recent changes to the military dress code. “I see a military … where uniforms have become a means of personal expression rather than a symbol of collective pride and unity: uniforms are no longer uniform.”

Not unsurprisingly, Maisonneuve’s words were a tonic to the old guards’ ears and the crowd rewarded him with a standing ovation.

 

Then there is this, but it fails to say who, except there was the elites of industry, and other that really don't understand what the message was.

Quote

However, the sentiment was not unanimous as was admitted in a subsequent statement from Youri Cormier, the executive director of the CDA Institute. “Many attendees were offended by LGen (ret’d) Maisonneuve’s speech. His remarks do not reflect those of the CDA Institute.”

then this Lt Gen Carignan and Minister of DND did condemn the speech considering they are the gate keepers for the reputation of DND these two would have been expected. So they disagreed with the speech, it was after all political pressure that brought on the dress code changes in the first place. But it is strange they did not list any other military that thought the speech was in bad taste. 

 

Quote

 

Minister of National Defence Anita Anand and Lt. Gen. Jennie Carignan, the Canadian Armed Forces Chief of Professional Conduct and Culture, both publicly criticized the speech after the Citizen article published.

It should be noted that Lt. Gen. Carignan was in attendance at the Vimy Gala when the remarks were made.

 

 

 

Scott Taylor was a young Infantry man, back in the day he got out to follow his current dream of running his own military magazine. He has done some really good work exposing some of the wrongs within DND and Government, he was a respected news source in Afghanistan, at least i thought so, did not run with the military, but on his own... that took balls. one of the very few to go outside the wire and collect his own stories instead of being spoon feed by the military in Kanada. Same as Christy that women were a journalistic God, spent weeks with troops outside the wire, she recorded our story, the one nobody else wanted to hear except us. There are some others that really was there to report, most were just vultures. 

This article is his opinion, on what happened, nothing more. Just like all the other stories on this topic some are flattering some are not. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

Virtually every human institution on the planet is dysfunctional right now.

He received a standing ovation from senior military officers in attendance.

Perhaps the problem is that there are to many conservatives bloating the military establishment in Canada.  That seems contradictory given how much conservatives like to pride themselves on trimming bloat to both save money and increase efficiency. 

Just how radical left does Canada have to get?  There’s barely any conservative representation in Canada. It can’t be called a pluralistic society anymore.  It’s always the same phoney effusive NDP-Liberal talking points.  Boring and soft.

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