Ontario's top doctor "strongly" recommends masking indoors

[Boges]

14 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Japan and South Korea have open societies. I believe the mask wearing there it is cultural. That is how they are raised to show respect for the elderly. Mask wearing was common even before the Covid-19 pandemic hit. 

@TreeBeardWhen someone is raised with this, of course is easier to implement it. To implement this in the West, people might react differently, especially when is back and forth in my view. 

For me, where there are crowds/public transit, I will wear a mask for the minutes that I am there, not a crowds person anyhow, but please don't ask me to wear a mask in the car, or in an office setting if I have my own space. How about when I go and pick-up my food outside if Uber drops it? should I go out with a mask even if the gentleman that delivered is not there? maybe someone pop-ups from the corner?  

Staying out of the Sun is also cultural for them.

[Boges]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm pretty sure we're talking about protecting our health system again.

Apparently the reason why that's important didn't sink in the first time.  Now we have an added reason, it's on the verge of complete collapse.

Anyway, I'm masking up for the simple sake of social courtesy.

In Ontario, we find out that there are only 100 ICU beds for children. . . in a province of 15 million people. 

Maybe if we had a health care system that could adapt to ebbs and flows in exposure. 

The unfortunate part of about this is it's not because of COVID. During COVID, everyone could see the data, see how ICU beds were being used and how many people were getting Hospitalized. 

None of those stats are being made public now, because this is not about COVID, it's basically the common Cold and Flu that's hitting children hard because they've never been exposed to it. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

1. In Ontario, we find out that there are only 100 ICU beds for children. . . in a province of 15 million people. 

2. Maybe if we had a health care system that could adapt to ebbs and flows in exposure. 

3. The unfortunate part of about this is it's not because of COVID. During COVID, everyone could see the data, see how ICU beds were being used and how many people were getting Hospitalized. 

None of those stats are being made public now, because this is not about COVID, it's basically the common Cold and Flu that's hitting children hard because they've never been exposed to it. 

1. Hence the need to mask up and protect what capacity you have.

2. Get out into the streets and protest and maybe we'll finally get one.

3.  In the meantime the courteous thing to do wear masks on the behalf.  Surely you're not advising kids stay in their basements.

 

 

[Boges]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

3.  In the meantime the courteous thing to do wear masks on the behalf.  Surely you're not advising kids stay in their basements.

No I actually think kids need to get sick. My kids have been sick on and off since June because my son is in daycare. You can't expect a 3-year-old to wear a mask at daycare. 

Us parents consider these mild sicknesses an immune boost. 

[dialamah]

25 minutes ago, Boges said:

No I actually think kids need to get sick. My kids have been sick on and off since June because my son is in daycare. You can't expect a 3-year-old to wear a mask at daycare. 

Us parents consider these mild sicknesses an immune boost. 

It's interesting that on the one hand, it's argued that masks are ineffective while also arguing that masks prevented kids from getting sick to the point that their immune system was affected.

This doesn't mean to say I support mandating mask wearing for kids or adults; I'm just noting inconsistency in the arguments by some long term anti-maskers.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

It's interesting that on the one hand, it's argued that masks are ineffective while also arguing that masks prevented kids from getting sick to the point that their immune system was affected.

This doesn't mean to say I support mandating mask wearing for kids or adults; I'm just noting inconsistency in the arguments by some long term anti-maskers.

My son never wore a mask. He just turned 3. But his exposure to people in the last 2 years has been greatly reduced. Only outdoor birthday parties. Limited family exposure, at times. And at Daycare the kids he was exposed to all had families experiencing the same limitations. 

What I object to here is that we're not talking about COVID. It's the Cold and Flu. So if the precedent is set that anytime sickness gets to much for Hospitals they can just force everyone to wear a mask everywhere, that's something I don't support. 

People think wearing a mask is just when you go grocery shopping. But there are tons of indoor activities where masking just isn't feasible or practical. 

A 3-year-old in daycare is one of them. 

[Goddess]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

It's interesting that on the one hand, it's argued that masks are ineffective while also arguing that masks prevented kids from getting sick to the point that their immune system was affected.

 

That's not the argument and you know it.

Read up on the science of how aerosols and droplets disperse. Then read the science on size of covid virion vs. size of mask openings.  Then read the science on size of mask openings vs. other germs or environmental factors. Then read the science of how our immune systems work, particularly children's immune systems and how it differs from the adult immune system. Then read the psychological science behind masking.

Maybe then you'll understand the argument against masking children for 3 years.

I remember posting an article on masking of children and why it was a bad idea, physically and psychologically, educational and socialization-wise.

You argued I was a conspiracy theorist, listening to nutters for even suggesting masking children for years might affect them negatively.

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

What I object to here is that we're not talking about COVID. It's the Cold and Flu. So if the precedent is set that anytime sickness gets to much for Hospitals they can just force everyone to wear a mask everywhere, that's something I don't support.

This is not something we should make a habit of for sure.  The need for a huge change in our health care systems couldn't be clearer.  In the meantime I don't think it's appropriate to force everyone to wear masks everywhere but I do think it's appropriate that everyone wear them in those places where all cohorts mingle.

Quote

 

People think wearing a mask is just when you go grocery shopping. But there are tons of indoor activities where masking just isn't feasible or practical. 

A 3-year-old in daycare is one of them.

 

 I have no intent, business or need to go to a daycare but I might need to use a subway.  Our local grocery store reserves a couple of hours first thing in the morning every few days or so for seniors.  These are the sorts of places and things where we could be attempting to avoid transmission and like I said as much a matter of implementing a health measure and practicing a little social courtesy.

How hard can it be? 

Edited November 15, 2022 by eyeball

[herbie]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

It's interesting that on the one hand, it's argued that masks are ineffective while also arguing that masks prevented kids from getting sick to the point that their immune system was affected.

Why not? Of course people who wouldn't make the slightest effort at prevention will argue that if something's not 100% effective, it's no good at all.

Back in the day I was one of those I'd rather feel shitty at work for $30 an hour than stay home unpaid and miserable types. But colds and the flu didn't kill people then or clog the hospitals so bad my own kid suffered in pain for 2 years waiting for surgery. So pooh pooh all the suggestions until it gets so bad they have to mandate again.

You don't show up at my house demanding to smoke cigars in front of the grandkids anymore do you?

[ExFlyer]

23 hours ago, Boges said:

In Ontario, we find out that there are only 100 ICU beds for children. . . in a province of 15 million people. 

Maybe if we had a health care system that could adapt to ebbs and flows in exposure. 

The unfortunate part of about this is it's not because of COVID. During COVID, everyone could see the data, see how ICU beds were being used and how many people were getting Hospitalized. 

None of those stats are being made public now, because this is not about COVID, it's basically the common Cold and Flu that's hitting children hard because they've never been exposed to it. 

I think you need to be a bit more specific. To cite by city or community instead of by a province so populated and so geographically large.

For instance, in Ottawa, wait times in emergency are 12+ hours. Thing is, Ottawa is over a million people and only 4 hospitals and 4 emergency rooms and, it services people form Gatineau Quebec as well.  Oh and only one children hospital.

[Contrarian]

Ontario's top doctor seen unmasked at event days after 'strongly' recommending masking.  

Video has emerged online of Ontario's top doctor unmasked at an event Thursday night — only days after he "strongly" recommended masks in indoor public settings, citing extraordinary pressures on the province's health-care system.

Posted by the publication Toronto Life on its Instagram page, the video shows Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Kieran Moore without a mask, standing in close quarters with other guests as they watch a performance.

The event was a celebration of the magazine's top 50 most influential people of 2022.

The ranking lists Moore in the number 12 spot "for keeping COVID under control."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dr-kieran-moore-no-mask-toronto-life-1.6656714?cmp=rss

Reminded me of the Gavin Newsom story: 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/calif-newsom-dinner-controversy-1.5807948

Edited November 18, 2022 by Contrarian

[OftenWrong]

Rules for thee but not for me.

These are the ass-hats you expect people to obey.

[OftenWrong]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:02 PM, herbie said:

Change your name to alwayswrong FFS, you're just never going to "get it" about S.F.A. ever.

No doubt little Herbie will continue to vote for Doug Ford and Kieran Moeron.

Get a free leash and muzzle with every vote.

[Zeitgeist]

The attempt to get everyone to mask up again is beyond absurd.  So what, every flue season we provide the population with masks to change daily so they can lose all natural immunity?   We need some exposure to what’s out there.  Instead of spending billions on masks so that people can be estranged from each other and have a warped social sense, why not produce the meds and provide the beds people need?  This boom in illnesses is a direct result of 2.5 years of masking and lack of exposure to viruses.  It will pass, but it will happen again if we force everyone to wear masks.  The Chief Med Officer won’t wear them in his real life because he knows it’s over the top.  We need to stop tailoring our society for ninnies.

[herbie]

How can you lose immunity if masks "don't work"? Are you insane? You've all claim both at the same time in your lame arguments.

Now you're saying even suggesting wearing them is too much for your lazy asses.

[Goddess]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

How can you lose immunity if masks "don't work"? Are you insane? You've all claim both at the same time in your lame arguments.

Now you're saying even suggesting wearing them is too much for your lazy asses.

Up until covid, masking for healthy people has always been medically contra-indicated.

[dialamah]

39 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Up until covid, masking for healthy people has always been medically contra-indicated.

But clearly it works to reduce the spread of disease.  And you are wrong - healthy doctors and nurses mask up to protect their patients.  During the Spanish flu people masked to reduce the spread.  People in Asian countries mask up as a matter of course, and some carry that habit with them when they come to Canada.  

[herbie]

Like I pointed out, the anti-maskers dummy up with anything at all that deflects from the fact they're lazy asses unable to endure the slightest inconvenience.

My wife, immuno-compromised, severe asthmatic managed to wear one 8 hrs a day so she was out on the floor meeting people like she enjoyed. Took her to buy a Tshirt for an upcoming MRI she lugged an oxygen bottle to the car, pulled it out when we got there and masked up overtop just to shop for 10 minutes - cuz that's what you did. Nevertheless I saw a few people bawl like stuck pigs over putting one on for 3 minutes to buy a pack of smokes until other customers told them to eff off and get out.

Never seen so many Covid Karens and Typhoid Larrys before COvid hit.

[ironstone]

What is frustrating for many of us is the complete 180-degree change in what leading public health officials told the public at the start about the efficacy of masks, then later told the public that masks were effective protection against Covid.

[Goddess]

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

But clearly it works to reduce the spread of disease.  And you are wrong - healthy doctors and nurses mask up to protect their patients.  During the Spanish flu people masked to reduce the spread.  People in Asian countries mask up as a matter of course, and some carry that habit with them when they come to Canada.  

Good gawd.

Educate yourself.  Read the science. 

Doctors wear a disposable mask at certain times, for only minutes and you think we should all mask up 24/7for the rest of our lives to prevent colds and flus?  GTFO, you extremist.

[dialamah]

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

Good gawd.

Educate yourself.  Read the science. 

Doctors wear a disposable mask at certain times, for only minutes at a time

My partner underwent an 8-hour operation a few years ago, involving two doctors an whatever support needed.   And you think these people only wore masks "for a few minutes"?  Don't you claim you have some medical background, lol  

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

you think we should all mask up 24/7for the rest of our lives to prevent colds and flus?  

I never said that.  I said masks are effective.  And, before you say something else stupid, I don't even think they're 100% effective, only that they help reduce spread, else medical personnel wouldn't wear them.

Perhaps stop lying about what people say.

 

[Goddess]

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

My partner underwent an 8-hour operation a few years ago, involving two doctors an whatever support needed.   And you think these people only wore masks "for a few minutes"?  Don't you claim you have some medical background, lol  

I never said that.  I said masks are effective.  And, before you say something else stupid, I don't even think they're 100% effective, only that they help reduce spread, else medical personnel wouldn't wear them.

Perhaps stop lying about what people say.

 

Doctors wearing masks during surgeries in no way justifies forcing the entire earth population, including children, to wear them 24/7 for years on end.  What kind of nutjob, extremist are you? 🙄

Doctors wear masks, so literally everyone else should wear them continually to possibly, maybe, minisculely reduce spread of an illness with a 99.5% survival rate?  Really?  That's what you're going to go with? 🙄

Oh yes, you're the one who argued that masking children for years on end has no effect on them emotionally, developmentally, psychologically or socially.  I think you'll be shortly eating that vomit you spewed out soon, too, as the disastrous effects of this on children are now being talked about.

I can see why you're so mad all the time.  You've supported a narrative that is falling apart rather quickly and you're looking more and more like the morally bankrupt fools talked about in this article:

A History of the Persecution of the Unvaccinated in Covid Era Canada | by Koen Swinkels | Medium

 

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I can see why you're so mad all the time. 

Mad?  I'm amused most of the time.  

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Doctors wearing masks during surgeries in no way justifies forcing the entire earth population, including children, to wear them 24/7 for years on end.

Nobody forced people to wear masks 24/7 - only if they were out in public places.  Who's out in public places 24/7?  And here, where I am, teachers lobbied for quite a while to have mask wearing for kids mandated and it didn't last years.  I think some people are still lobbying for it, although I'm not one of them (believe it or not). 

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Oh yes, you're the one who argued that masking children for years on end has no effect on them emotionally, developmentally, psychologically or socially. 

Well, that isn't what I argued although I know what you are talking about (for a change, haha).  I'll leave you to go back and find out what I actually said.    

Did you know that out of 637 million cases of Covid, over 6 million died?  Millions more have experienced serious, long-term side effects, including all of the things you blame the vaccine for.  Billions of shots, a relative handful of serious side effects, and somehow you keep insisting the cure is worse than the disease.   

Now I get to watch you respond. 

*gets the popcorn*.

 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

Doctors wearing masks during surgeries in no way justifies forcing the entire earth population, including children, to wear them 24/7 for years on end.  

24/7?  Hyperbolize much?

 

Quote

What kind of nutjob, extremist are you? 🙄  

🤣

 

[Boges]

I'm pretty passionate about this as I have two young ones who are fighting off RSV type illnesses now. 

These infections are much worse because of Social Engineering done through COVID that tried to limit all people's contact with everyone. 

It did work to temporarily reduce COVID, but then Omicron showed up and masks don't really work with Omicron, unless you're going to mandate N95 type masks. But COVID isn't a new virus anymore, almost everyone is either vaccinated or have prior infection. 

We're now suffering from children with underdeveloped immunity. All kids are getting sick at the same time. 

The solution to that is NOT to put them back in a bubble. 2, 3 and 4 year olds probably have not had to wear masks up until now. So forcing them to wear mask is a difficult and counter intuitive task. 

AND mandating indoor masking is highly damaging to businesses that trade in indoor recreation. Restaurants, Gyms, Theatres etc. We shut them down, on-and-off for 2 years. Masking in these environments are simply not practical.