China has infiltrated the federal government

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Wow look who suddenly and conveniently has balls:

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/rcmp-arrests-hydro-quebec-employee-on-espionage-charges-1.6152169

This is another manifestation of taking Trudeau personally, thinking you know him and so on.  When it comes to the bureaucracy, the legal system and ESPECIALLY national security we have no idea what is going on other than the very bare facts.

[Contrarian]

51 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Wow look who suddenly and conveniently has balls:

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/rcmp-arrests-hydro-quebec-employee-on-espionage-charges-1.6152169

should the RCMP moved in when the 2 Canadians were arrested at the discretion of Beijing in a show? 

What would the (capitalist/communist hybrid) new Mao and his followers do, you think? 

Chess game. 

@Zeitgeist

Yah, good point to think about (Harper, China and their relationship).  

Edited November 14, 2022 by Contrarian

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is another manifestation of taking Trudeau personally, thinking you know him and so on.  When it comes to the bureaucracy, the legal system and ESPECIALLY national security we have no idea what is going on other than the very bare facts.

Really?  It seems pretty clear what happened here.  This gov wasn't doing enough about CSIS reports of serious CCP espionage and foreign influence concerns infiltrating our federal government and democratic processes so CSIS got fed up and leaked the story to the press.  Why else would they leak it?  Then within a week the RCMP makes an arrest and makes it public to the press, the first public Chinese espionage arrest I can remember since 2019 when the Chinese scientists (who received an award from the GG 😂) were escorted from the national virus lab in Winnipeg.

This government should not need CSIS leaks and NGO leaks about CCP "police stations" in Canada used to intimidate Canadians before they act on very serious national security issues.  This government is incompetent.  CSIS is doing its job and this gov is not doing theirs.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Lord love a duck.  It was Trudeau’s soft on China approach that got us in bed with China, including on 5G. The US move on Meng forced the issue on Canada’s loyalties.  Harper was wise to be hawkish on China. Trudeau is the teacher who starts off too permissive with the class then realizes he has to tighten up, but he doesn’t have China’s respect.  Harper did.

Harper wasn't hawkish, he was taking panda gifts from the CCP and licking their boots while selling of our natural resources to them.

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. Really?  It seems pretty clear what happened here.  This gov wasn't doing enough about CSIS reports of serious CCP espionage and foreign influence concerns infiltrating our federal government and democratic processes so CSIS got fed up and leaked the story to the press.  Why else would they leak it?  Then within a week the RCMP makes an arrest and makes it public to the press, the first public Chinese espionage arrest I can remember since 2019 when the Chinese scientists (who received an award from the GG 😂) were escorted from the national virus lab in Winnipeg.

2. This government should not need CSIS leaks and NGO leaks about CCP "police stations" in Canada used to intimidate Canadians before they act on very serious national security issues.  This government is incompetent.  CSIS is doing its job and this gov is not doing theirs.

1. That is a guess.  The Winnipeg story has been in the news for a long time...
2. You don't know that these incidents are connected.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

should the RCMP moved in when the 2 Canadians were arrested at the discretion of Beijing in a show? 

What would the (capitalist/communist hybrid) new Mao and his followers do, you think? 

Chess game. 

@Zeitgeist

Yah, good point to think about (Harper, China and their relationship).  

Canada has a lot of economic assets in China due to decades of trade and manufacturing growth there.  Now China is in a powerful enough position to use these economic ties as leverage to scare our government into taking action against them when they commit espionage and other crimes.

The solution is to decouple economically from China in order to remove their leverage over our government.  Our government is I imagine scared to do this because we'll take an economic hit, which they fear will make them unpopular.  The CCP may even have more leverage on our government as the recent CSIS leaks suggest, they may be compromised with money or whatnot who knows.  Look at John McCallum, he was a former minister of national defense and then ambassador to China with a China-Canadian wife and was covering for the CCP publicly and making public suggestions for the US to drop the extradition request, and was removed from his post for these comments.  The man was very likely compromised.  The recent CSIS leaks make this a very real possibility.

[Moonlight Graham]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That is a guess.  The Winnipeg story has been in the news for a long time...
2. You don't know that these incidents are connected.

Yeah it was just purely coincidence.  🤨

[Contrarian]

11 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Look at John McCallum, he was a former minister of national defense and then ambassador to China with a China-Canadian wife and was covering for the CCP publicly and making public suggestions for the US to drop the extradition request, and was removed from his post for these comments.  The man was very likely compromised.  The recent CSIS leaks make this a very real possibility.

McCallum's reaction at that time (after a few hours of the initial comments) -> comedy: 

"I misspoke" 😅, he said. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Contrarian

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  Our government is I imagine scared to do this because we'll take an economic hit, which they fear will make them unpopular.   

What are you talking about ?  We just told them to sell their Lithium mine I thought...

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Yeah it was just purely coincidence.  🤨

Well... maybe it was.  You actually don't know.  The Winnipeg story hit a long time ago and has been dormant.  Why didn't that cause some similar reaction in the PMO ?  

The answer is: we don't know.

[Nefarious Banana]

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well... maybe it was.  You actually don't know.  The Winnipeg story hit a long time ago and has been dormant.  Why didn't that cause some similar reaction in the PMO ?  

The answer is: we don't know.

Presuming you can read . . . . 'The Origin of the Deadliest Pandemic in 100 Years'   by  Elaine Dewar

[I am Groot]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:37 AM, Contrarian said:

The New York Times has a contrarian article. 
 

They still love Trudeau.

Any talk is just that: talk. It's meaningless until they demonstrate resolve by increasing the budget for CSIS and CSE, ordering members of the United Front and Chinese language media in Canada to register as foreign agents, and closing down the Confucius institutes.

[I am Groot]

16 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Canada has a lot of economic assets in China due to decades of trade and manufacturing growth there.  Now China is in a powerful enough position to use these economic ties as leverage to scare our government into taking action against them when they commit espionage and other crimes.

We have little in the way of exports to China. All they buy, mostly, is raw materials and food. Their leverage, on the other hand, is in the things they sell us. We get most of our medicine from them, for example, not to mention a huge number of consumer goods. Replacing the consumer goods would be costly. Replacing the medicine may not even be possible, and if it is would take considerable time. So far they haven't used that as blackmail, probably because it would be a wake up notice to every country buying from them, who would all immediately start looking for alternatives. But that day is coming.

And if they get their hands on Taiwan we're really in trouble. Sixty percent of the world's semiconductors come from Taiwan, and 90% of the more advanced chips.

16 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The solution is to decouple economically from China in order to remove their leverage over our government.

Their leverage is more about money in the pockets of influential Liberals than economic worries. Such people are offered very preferential investment deals in China in hopes they will influence government policy. You saw them coming out of the woodwork during the two michaels, advising the government to let Wanzhou go. But usually they're behind the scenes, whispering in ears at various Liberal Party gatherings. They have names like Chretien, Manley, Rock, Axworthy, and Oullette.

16 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 Look at John McCallum, he was a former minister of national defense and then ambassador to China with a China-Canadian wife and was covering for the CCP publicly and making public suggestions for the US to drop the extradition request, and was removed from his post for these comments.  The man was very likely compromised.  The recent CSIS leaks make this a very real possibility.

He was certainly compromised, and so was his successor. Although in the case of the latter he was willingly and eagerly compromised long before he was appointed ambassador, as was his wife.

Edited November 15, 2022 by I am Groot

[Moonlight Graham]

Guess it takes a media leak of major security concerns that JT was long ago briefed about to get Trudeau to discuss it with China.  #leadership

https://globalnews.ca/news/9278560/canada-funding-pledge-g20-summit/

[Contrarian]

China's CCP Leader Xi Jinping has complained 😂 to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau about alleged media leaks, and accused him of harming diplomatic relations.

The two had a discussion Wednesday at an event during the G20 summit in Indonesia and media were able to record the brief conversation.

"Everything we discuss has been leaked to the paper; that's not appropriate," Xi told Trudeau through an interpreter.

"That's not how, the way the conversation was conducted. If there is sincerity on your part --" Xi said, at which point Trudeau interrupted.

"We believe in free and open and frank dialogue and that is what we will continue to have. We will continue to look to work constructively together, but there will be things we will disagree on," Trudeau said.

"Let's create the conditions first," Xi responded through the interpreter.

The two shook hands after the brief conversation.

Trudeau spoke with Xi on Tuesday and his office said afterward that he had raised concerns about Chinese interference in Canada, following claims of de facto police stations operating in Canada and of China reportedly meddling in the 2019 general election. 

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/chinese-president-accuses-trudeau-of-leaking-details-of-conversation-to-media-1.6155002

[Contrarian]

8 hours ago, Contrarian said:

China's CCP Leader Xi Jinping has complained 😂 to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau about alleged media leaks, and accused him of harming diplomatic relations.

The two had a discussion Wednesday at an event during the G20 summit in Indonesia and media were able to record the brief conversation.

"Everything we discuss has been leaked to the paper; that's not appropriate," Xi told Trudeau through an interpreter.

"That's not how, the way the conversation was conducted. If there is sincerity on your part --" Xi said, at which point Trudeau interrupted.

"We believe in free and open and frank dialogue and that is what we will continue to have. We will continue to look to work constructively together, but there will be things we will disagree on," Trudeau said.

"Let's create the conditions first," Xi responded through the interpreter.

The two shook hands after the brief conversation.

Trudeau spoke with Xi on Tuesday and his office said afterward that he had raised concerns about Chinese interference in Canada, following claims of de facto police stations operating in Canada and of China reportedly meddling in the 2019 general election. 

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/chinese-president-accuses-trudeau-of-leaking-details-of-conversation-to-media-1.6155002

Video:

[eyeball]

When Trudeau mentioned public open frank discussions are how things work in a democracy, it's unfortunate Xi didn't ask if SNC was a good example of what Trudeau meant.

Edited November 16, 2022 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

Wowee...the gov is getting tough on China now.  Good job being proactive and not reactive there feds!  If you see any Chinese espionage happening don't bother reporting it to the authorities, just report it to the media:

https://globalnews.ca/news/9280974/china-interference-canada-election-investigation-toronto-businessman/

 

[I am Groot]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

When Trudeau mentioned public open frank discussions are how things work in a democracy, it's unfortunate Xi didn't ask if SNC was a good example of what Trudeau meant.

Or refusing to hand over documents to parliamentary commissions.

[TreeBeard]

On 11/15/2022 at 6:43 AM, I am Groot said:

We have little in the way of exports to China.

Nonsense.  They’re our 2nd largest trading nation in terms of exports.  You make it sound as if we hardly send anything their way.  

[I am Groot]

15 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Nonsense.  They’re our 2nd largest trading nation in terms of exports.  You make it sound as if we hardly send anything their way.  

Our biggest export to China is... coal. Other major exports are copper and iron ore, wood pulp, and agricultural products.

[TreeBeard]

17 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Our biggest export to China is... coal. Other major exports are copper and iron ore, wood pulp, and agricultural products.

Yes….  and?

[I am Groot]

29 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Yes….  and?

Selling raw materials is like selling oil. There's always a market at pretty much the same price. If we don't sell it to China we'll sell it to Indonesia or India instead.

[TreeBeard]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Selling raw materials is like selling oil. There's always a market at pretty much the same price. If we don't sell it to China we'll sell it to Indonesia or India instead.

No, that’s a simpleton, unrealistic view of selling resources. 

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Nonsense.  They’re our 2nd largest trading nation in terms of exports.  You make it sound as if we hardly send anything their way.  

23 Bil is not what i call a massive amount, it represents only 4.6 % of all our trade and could easily be made up by increasing trade with other nations had we LP gas terminals we could be providing more to Europe and cutting back on exports to China. It is our imports of Chinese good that are a problem.   Canada's Top Trading Partners 2021 (worldstopexports.com)

Edited November 18, 2022 by Army Guy