Will the Liberal plan to bring in 1.45 million immigrants over the next three years be good for Canada?

[blackbird]

I see several serious negatives as a result of bringing in such a huge number of immigrants.

1.  Canada is already in a serious housing shortage.  Where will these new immigrants be housed and who will pay for it since rent is out of sight.

2.  Will bringing in a huge number of immigrants actually cost the taxpayers a fortune to provide income support they will need.

3.  How will bringing in a massive number of people from third world Islamic countries impact society?  Many people in the third world do not understand our fundamental freedoms like freedom of expression, freedom of the press, freedom of religion and they are used to authorities denying such freedom to people who do not agree with their religion as in Islamic republics.

4.  What countries exactly are they planning to bring them from?  Will they be coming from failed states like Haiti, Somalia, Uganda, Nigeria, the middle east, Mexico?   Will they be people who oppose our system and prefer a Socialist or failing liberal system?  Will they be primarily more liberal and left supporters?  The list of failures of the Liberal government in almost every area is long.  There are many countries where people do not respect human life and have no law and order, such as Haiti, African countries, and other places.  We see the rampant shootings in Toronto for years now.

5.  How will it affect the already failing health care system?

6.  Many cities and towns are already overwhelmed with homeless people living in tents on the streets and rampant crime as a result.  The criminal justice system is a revolving door and many criminals are arrested and immediately released back onto the street.  This is a major issue in B.C. right now.  It would make sense to house these people before bringing in more people.  How will this amount of immigration effect this situation?

Canada's plan for more immigrants aims to boost workforce, but experts say they'll need support (msn.com)

Edited November 6, 2022 by blackbird

[I am Groot]

That is the sort of thing which ought to have been studied prior to the decision to increase immigration - 7 years ago. But Canada has undertaken no real study of the benefits or drawback of immigration, what immigration can do for the country, what it has done so far, or how to adjust/alter it to get what we want. Or even what we want. The government has studied none of this and has no plans to do so.

Obviously, bringing in even more immigrants will exacerbate the housing shortage and resulting price increases in everything from rent to mortgages. Very few of the new immigrants will be construction tradesmen, and we have no idea how well their skills (presuming they have any) will meld with Canada's needs. Bringing in half a million people a year means more demand for housing, which in the absence of a flood of new people into the construction trades we will be unable to supply. Likewise medical services, especially since Trudeau has grandly increased the number of elderly immigrants three times in the last seven years, from 5,000 to 30,000 now (and counting). 

What we can be fairly sure the new flood of immigrants will do is make it easier for low wage jobs like those in the restaurant and hospitality industries to be filled without raising wages. Ditto for the tech industry, which will continue to spurn Canadian software grads in favor of more experienced and much cheaper Indians and Chinese. 

There's no real suggestion any of this will be good for Canada, at least in the short to medium term. Nor, I suspect, is it supposed to be. It's designed to make corporate Canada happy and to meet the Liberal party's goals under the Century Initiative as well as increasing immigrants from ethnic groups seen to be strong Liberal party supporters.

[herbie]

because yo know, we just can't build more housing! There's no land to put them on, we can't use all that unsold lumber for ourselves, developers don't want to make money building housing, we don't need that extra tax revenue more citizens will remit.
And the government hasn't studied immigration at all, never come out and said HEY THIS IS THE GOVERNMENT TALKING CANADA NEEDS MORE PEOPLE, they just let economic experts and petty civil servants say that for decades.

Hell the last thing I want is MORE potential customers for my business I might make too much money! Someone might buy fix or rent those empty houses across the street and drive the value of mine through the roof.

[Moonlight Graham]

The Liberals know they are more popular among Canadians not born in Canada.  This is why they've dramatically increased immigration levels and lowered the # of years in Canada required in order to get citizenship (voting rights).

The Liberals are engaging in demographic warfare tactics to secure their power, which is pretty racist.

I once attended a Trudeau campaign rally during an election period.  100% of his security and enterage is made up of non-whites.  I found that very odd and very racist.  Trudeau and the Liberals are obsessed with identity politics like race and gender issues.  Only a racist would care what race the members of their security detail are.  Enter:  blackface.

[Moonlight Graham]

"The federal government is aiming for roughly 60 per cent of newcomers to be in the economic class — people coming to Canada for their work skills as well as their accompanying family members — in 2025."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canada-s-plan-for-more-immigrants-aims-to-boost-workforce-but-experts-say-they-ll-need-support/ar-AA13NJfm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=280fa9eaeafd47dfb384801e588fa84c

LOL, it should be a lot higher than that.

Liberals plan to bring in 500k immigrants in 2025, meaning they're about doubling immigration numbers since the year they were first elected.  Better build more houses.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Moonlight Graham

[Zeitgeist]

The game is to bring in people who are grateful for a lot less than the people who have been living here for a while would  accept.  Such people generally won’t make waves.  There’s no question of what the impacts on our social services, healthcare, ESL educators, democratic values, home prices or rents will be.

It’s about the Liberals looking pro-diversity and counting on the immigrant vote.

Canada always needs some immigrants, especially in certain sectors, but 500000 per year is irresponsible.  Canada has almost double the foreign born residents of the US.  In areas of the GTA where immigration has been heaviest it’s very hard to tell how much integration outside the immigrant community is taking place.

This situation is unlikely to change until everyone on this forum is long gone.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

Quote

Will the Liberal plan to _________________ be good for Canada?

No. 

Always "No". 

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

I see several serious negatives as a result of bringing in such a huge number of immigrants.

1.  Canada is already in a serious housing shortage.  Where will these new immigrants be housed and who will pay for it since rent is out of sight.

Don't ask if you don't want to know.

Quote

2.  Will bringing in a huge number of immigrants actually cost the taxpayers a fortune to provide income support they will need.

If there was a way to make it affordable the Libs would find a workaround. 

Quote

3.  How will bringing in a massive number of people from third world Islamic countries impact society?  Many people in the third world do not understand our fundamental freedoms like freedom of expression, freedom of the press, freedom of religion and they are used to authorities denying such freedom to people who do not agree with their religion as in Islamic republics.

You forgot to mention: "Free to not get raped, free to not get beaten up or imprisoned for not wearing a hijab, etc"

Quote

4.  What countries exactly are they planning to bring them from? Will they be coming from failed states like Haiti, Somalia, Uganda, Nigeria, the middle east, Mexico?   Will they be people who oppose our system and prefer a Socialist or failing liberal system?  Will they be primarily more liberal and left supporters?  The list of failures of the Liberal government in almost every area is long.  There are many countries where people do not respect human life and have no law and order, such as Haiti, African countries, and other places.  We see the rampant shootings in Toronto for years now.

Places with crime rates more like Baltimore than Victoria.

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5.  How will it affect the already failing health care system?

If there's no way to pretend that it won't be a massive drain on the system, then the official answer will be "Shut up, racist."

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6.  Many cities and towns are already overwhelmed with homeless people living in tents on the streets and rampant crime as a result. 

I was just in downtown Vancouver a couple weeks ago to see Jim Jefferies, there are a lot of tents on the streets in downtown. I'm not sure if those people think they can survive the winter like that, or if they like getting peed on by the winners slithering around the Shark Club, but it's a thing in Vcr now. 

Quote

The criminal justice system is a revolving door and many criminals are arrested and immediately released back onto the street.  This is a major issue in B.C. right now.  It would make sense to house these people before bringing in more people. 

That's all by design, but I can't say why that's the case.

Quote

How will this amount of immigration effect this situation?

About as well as when The WHO decided that it would be a great idea to let people fly out of Wuhan into all the major cities of the world, so as not to appear racist. IE, predictably. 

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

because yo know, we just can't build more housing!

We barely have enough construction tradesmen to build what we're building now, which isn't enough NOW. You want to increase the rate at which housing is going up we need more people in the construction trades. A lot more.

1 hour ago, herbie said:

There's no land to put them on,

You think they're going to want to plunk their arses down in Thunder Bay or Whitehorse, people largely coming from areas near the equator? They're going to Toronto, Vancouver, and a few other cities. Which means making those cities more crowded or increasing urban sprawl by paving over farmland. And for what, exactly?

1 hour ago, herbie said:

we don't need that extra tax revenue more citizens will remit.

Will they remit more than the government has to spend on them? The last study done strongly suggested otherwise.

1 hour ago, herbie said:

And the government hasn't studied immigration at all, never come out and said HEY THIS IS THE GOVERNMENT TALKING CANADA NEEDS MORE PEOPLE, they just let economic experts and petty civil servants say that for decades.

Economics experts? Like this guy?

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-canada-has-abandoned-middle-class-says-b-c-s-former-top-civil-servant

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Hell the last thing I want is MORE potential customers for my business I might make too much money! Someone might buy fix or rent those empty houses across the street and drive the value of mine through the roof.

Oh yes, I forgot about all those empty houses that can't be rented or bought because, like, there's such an oversupply. More potential customers? Indeed. But you know what else comes with more potential customers? More potential competition. The only businesses that are certain to benefit are the oligopolies who have lobbied the government for this, and some of the real estate and construction industry.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

"The federal government is aiming for roughly 60 per cent of newcomers to be in the economic class — people coming to Canada for their work skills as well as their accompanying family members — in 2025."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canada-s-plan-for-more-immigrants-aims-to-boost-workforce-but-experts-say-they-ll-need-support/ar-AA13NJfm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=280fa9eaeafd47dfb384801e588fa84c

LOL, it should be a lot higher than that.

Remember that of that 60% only about 1/4 to 1/3 will be the principle applicant tested for skills. So let's say it's 1/3. That means 20% of immigrants will be 'skilled'. The rest might not even speak English.

[herbie]

and best of all, not one of those immigrants will be infected by the 'we can't DO anything because of..." attitude prevalent among N Americans.

There's a gate on the path... we can't do anything so we'll just sit down and moan and tell people they're fools for even thinking of going around it or over it or even checking to see if it's locked.

That's what's killing us

[Tony Hladun]

Except for indigenous peoples, we are all children of immigrants here.  That said, today we have to ask the question...do we need more immigrants?  We are a sparsely populated country so we have a large per capita carbon footprint.  Do we need more of that?  Our wealth comes from resource development and agriculture.  Do new immigrants, who seem to settle more in large urban centres,  contribute to our productivity in those economic areas?  What we need is job creation and capital investment.  Certain types of immigrants do that but how many are they?  We also need to think hard about diversity.  Cultures don't easily meld and blend and maybe our grandparents weren't totally stupid when they emphasised the "melting pot" focus.  The main pro argument seems to be we need people to look after us in our old age.  If that were true then China and India should be geriatric heavens, but I don't think that's the case.  I know this is highly politically incorrect by today's standards but maybe it something we should think about.    

[Zeitgeist]

44 minutes ago, Tony Hladun said:

Except for indigenous peoples, we are all children of immigrants here.  That said, today we have to ask the question...do we need more immigrants?  We are a sparsely populated country so we have a large per capita carbon footprint.  Do we need more of that?  Our wealth comes from resource development and agriculture.  Do new immigrants, who seem to settle more in large urban centres,  contribute to our productivity in those economic areas?  What we need is job creation and capital investment.  Certain types of immigrants do that but how many are they?  We also need to think hard about diversity.  Cultures don't easily meld and blend and maybe our grandparents weren't totally stupid when they emphasised the "melting pot" focus.  The main pro argument seems to be we need people to look after us in our old age.  If that were true then China and India should be geriatric heavens, but I don't think that's the case.  I know this is highly politically incorrect by today's standards but maybe it something we should think about.    

Those are honest and reasonable concerns, so they will be ignored by our government.  The whole Canadian 2030 Climate Action Plan is an utter lie and joke when you consider how much more waste our country will produce and how much more energy we’ll consume with these millions of additional people.

The whole Liberal platform is a fake show of greenwashing and identity politics.  Woke-green rhetoric with real added costs for Canadians in the form of carbon taxes and overcrowded cities with overstretched infrastructure, overpriced homes, and siloed communities.

Canadians continue to buy into this narrative, so I doubt anything will change anytime soon.  We will literally be funding gender transition surgeries in Africa as Quebec bans use of the English language and young people can no longer afford housing.  

[myata]

The system is heading into a crisis and meaningful change is a taboo here. The caviar class have to do something and they can do anything. Massive dependent population is much easier to manage. China and Russia know.

Edited November 7, 2022 by myata

[myata]

A better question is: why the country wouldn't turn into a (third world) banana republic, in the next say 50 years? What is there to prevent it? Anything?

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, myata said:

A better question is: why the country wouldn't turn into a (third world) banana republic, in the next say 50 years? What is there to prevent it? Anything?

Until more people call out the government for these irresponsible policies, this will continue.  I think people have been swayed by government and media into a disinterested compliance.  Fear, exhaustion, messaging…People don’t know which way is up or down and are focused on trying to pay bills as Rome burns and Nero plays the fiddle.  

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Until more people call out the government for these irresponsible policies, this will continue.  I think people have been swayed by government and media into a disinterested compliance.  Fear, exhaustion, messaging…People don’t know which way is up or down and are focused on trying to pay bills as Rome burns and Nero plays the fiddle.  

Yes, the government (Libs and NDP) have figured out ways to exploit and play on people's fears and desires in order to get re-elected.  The system is built to exploit people for votes.  Even the immigration system is designed to bring in the votes for liberals.  Politicians know how to make empty promises to get elected.  Much of the west is in the same mess.  Who would have believed even 30 years ago that climate change would be the big issue it is and used for votes?  Who would have believed that western politicians would be meeting in Egypt now and making promises to compensate the third world for climate change and weather patterns?

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The Liberals know they are more popular among Canadians not born in Canada.  This is why they've dramatically increased immigration levels and lowered the # of years in Canada required in order to get citizenship (voting rights).

The Liberals are engaging in demographic warfare tactics to secure their power, which is pretty racist.

I once attended a Trudeau campaign rally during an election period.  100% of his security and enterage is made up of non-whites.  I found that very odd and very racist.  Trudeau and the Liberals are obsessed with identity politics like race and gender issues.  Only a racist would care what race the members of their security detail are.  Enter:  blackface.

Your post is full of logical errors.  For example, how would you have any idea that the Liberals would hand pick security guards?

[Michael Hardner]

On the whole, I agree with Groot mainly because Canada needs to improve its growth planning to accommodate new arrivals.

But I do ask people to consider that economics generally see population growth as neutral/positive, and that there are a lot of specialized jobs to be filled.  There's something called the fixed pie fallacy that many are falling into.

[myata]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Until more people call out the government for these irresponsible policies, this will continue.

Every story of well-meaning benevolent governance, out of all bounds and controls, runs its course to the same well-known and extensively tested conclusion. There will be no exceptions. Cannot be.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Every story of well-meaning benevolent governance, out of all bounds and controls, runs its course to the same well-known and extensively tested conclusion. There will be no exceptions. Cannot be.

All good ideas run their course.  This is natural.

[myata]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

All good ideas run their course.

Ah, you are certain this is a good one. Despite uncounted millennia of experiments always showing the same result: unchecked, out of controls and bounds power is never a good idea. But wait, can't we try one more time?

[Nationalist]

NO!

[myata]

Caviar class was never about democracy. They a) don't understand b) are deeply suspicious of c) don't really like and d) don't really need it. It was all about an enlightened, benevolent aristo-technocracy. Just like colonial but better facade. Just be honest with yourself and change the sign on the door - and it all makes sense, instantly.

[Zeitgeist]

Canada needs to get out of these international pacts that basically turn us into the resettlement zone.  It’s catching up to us.  We won’t be able to reel in these forces of change for the worse.