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Liberal Climate Activist Greta Thunberg calls for insurrection against western democracies


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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can you do me the favour of responding once to my posts, otherwise these conversations spin out of control.

If I tell you I'm not a Marxist or Communist will you faint ?  I pretty clearly explained that payments are about LIABILITY which is a legal term.

Try to respond to my facts with more facts instead of hyperventilating and gasping the word 'Communist'.  It's actually basic humanity to fix the problems you create, in case you are unfamiliar with moral behaviour.

Liability in whose eyes?  This is why the US won’t participate in international courts, which are politicized by the same elite sanctimonious ideologues.

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. Liability in whose eyes?  This is why the US won’t participate in international courts, which are politicized by the same elite sanctimonious ideologues.

1.  So... you ask who would say there's a liability and then run ahead of the discussion to name call people would would have input to the discussion.  Really, you make your take on 'fairness' very clear.

IF you want to do nothing about climate change, then any impacts from climate change should be remediated by those who have caused it - proportionally.  Is there something wrong with that concept ?

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6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  So... you ask who would say there's a liability and then run ahead of the discussion to name call people would would have input to the discussion.  Really, you make your take on 'fairness' very clear.

IF you want to do nothing about climate change, then any impacts from climate change should be remediated by those who have caused it - proportionally.  Is there something wrong with that concept ?

There’s no liability for a crime that didn’t exist, or are we doing retroactive crime again, persecuting people for doing things that weren’t considered crimes when they did them?  Honestly the arrogance.  Michael take your pickpockets with you to a colony of activist dupes so you can shake each other down for various causes that matter to you.  I mean no one will actually produce anything there or have any money, but there are precedents for cannibalism.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes and this is reflected in the modified climate change models, ie. we have had an impact.  
2. We are in a better place than we would have been than if we had done nothing.
3. Your statement applies to all collective action - everyone needs to contribute.  If no one is doing much why is Green Technology growing so much as a business ?

CO2 levels continue to climb. Whether Canada reduces its contribution is irrelevant as the big players continue to increase theirs, which vastly outweighs what we do. Until developing world leaders set and actively work towards reducing their emissions (none are) we will see no progress. 

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9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Canada's health care system is failing, not funded properly, the military is short thousands of soldiers and short many navy ships and aircraft that cost billions of dollars  and Trudeau is giving our money away to the third world.

Trudeau pledges cash for infrastructure and making vaccines in developing countries (msn.com)

Well you must LOVE Trudeau compared to Harper given his reduced generosity for foreign aid.  Were you on Harper's back about that aspect of his governance ?  Or do you just pick sides and reverse engineer what is right and what is wrong ?

ODA-f1.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

There’s no liability for a crime that didn’t exist, or are we doing retroactive crime again, persecuting people for doing things that weren’t considered crimes when they did them?  Honestly the arrogance.  Michael take your pickpockets with you to a colony of activist dupes so you can shake each other down for various causes that matter to you.  I mean no one will actually produce anything there or have any money, but there are precedents for cannibalism.

 

Awesome.

:lol:

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2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

CO2 levels continue to climb. Whether Canada reduces its contribution is irrelevant as the big players continue to increase theirs, which vastly outweighs what we do. Until developing world leaders set and actively work towards reducing their emissions (none are) we will see no progress. 

Again: "Your statement applies to all collective action - everyone needs to contribute."

Why do I need to pay my taxes ?  It makes no difference to Canada on the whole...

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9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. There’s no liability for a crime that didn’t exist, or are we doing retroactive crime again, persecuting people for doing things that weren’t considered crimes when they did them?

2. Michael take your pickpockets with you to a colony of activist dupes so you can shake each other down for various causes that matter to you.  

3. I mean no one will actually produce anything there or have any money, but there are precedents for cannibalism.

1. Liability doesn't need a crime necessarily, it just needs responsibility to be assigned.  
2. Please get off your chair.  I searched your posts in the past and you supported green energy initiatives and admonished the US for not following climate agreements.  There's no need for each of us to be anything more than practical here.
3. Puffery.

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55 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Liability doesn't need a crime necessarily, it just needs responsibility to be assigned.  
2. Please get off your chair.  I searched your posts in the past and you supported green energy initiatives and admonished the US for not following climate agreements.  There's no need for each of us to be anything more than practical here.
3. Puffery.

If you read them then you’ll know I was probably more of a green activist than anyone on here.   I lobbied governments and published articles, wrote the first Greenbelt Boundary Proposal for the GTA, and I have the letters and newspaper clippings to prove it, including from a number of MP’s, MPP’s, commissioners, mayors, and bureaucrats.   I’ve invested in solar and know a bit about alternative energy sources.

What I’ve learned is that green energy in its current form produces small amounts of energy, but there are great opportunities for integrating them into our building code for heating, cooling, and energy production (deep water cooling, geothermal, solar roof systems, slow poke mini reactors, etc.).  There are also ways to build smart communities that are more walkable and transit viable.  Victorian mill towns did this better than we do with their multiple train connections and complete communities (Saltaire is a great example).

Hydro is great but there are environmental impacts with concrete production (which produces emissions) and on ecosystems.  Same goes for nuclear.   Yet we need large generating stations to have a viable manufacturing and energy sector.  In fact this is about national security.  You can’t completely avoid emissions and environmental impacts.  Subways and trains lower emissions in the long term but require tremendous concrete production up front.  

The same goes for food production.  Blunt instruments like making farmers lower production and inflicting carbon taxes on the supply chain drives up food prices.  Carbon taxes drive up the costs of goods full stop.  That causes more poverty and less education.  Guess what?  People who are less educated generally have bigger families (carbon footprints).

My role is to point out the hypocrisy of our small minded and economically damaging climate policies.  All of our “climate action” will be overshadowed by high immigration, which is what our current government relies on to grow the economy.  The Liberals also like to make recent immigrants feel beholden to them and stoke fear about political opponents.  They try to win votes because their true motivation is self-preservation, not ending climate change or ending racial inequality.  The woke-green rhetoric is “Look I’m a good person” BS.  Much of it is overblown Marxist drivel that, if fully enacted, would drive our meritocracy and industry into the ground.  The cost of living is already punishingly high.  Home prices can’t come down much with demand continuing to rise under current immigration plans.  I won’t even get into the healthcare discussion.   

If you actually want a prosperous and free society, don’t support policies that undermine both.  This country has been going downhill since the Liberals took office, especially since their last mandate.  They aren’t even liberal.  It’s radical leftist amateur hour.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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On 11/14/2022 at 2:24 PM, I am Groot said:

NATO is the only reason Russia lets us pretend we own the north. We certainly have no military which could do a single thing to them if they decided they wanted to start drilling for oil there.

That matters to people like you, me and a few others on here, to the majority of Canadians they could not care less about our north, shit today nobody even likes fossil fuel it is evil black death according to the left. they drool all over themselves thinking how many more social programs our military could fund. 

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Lots of people have suggested doing nothing about climate change and accepting the result.  I guess we're learning about the kinds of people who p*** on the toilet seat on this thread....

Or maybe they have just given up hope that nothing of any real value will get done, not here and not globally, and now they are asking why to suffer now, if it will not make a difference.

Canada ranks in the bottom according to COP 27, below Russia, and one above China. Guess Canada has been Pi$$ing all over the world's toilet seat. 

Canadian support for climate change initiatives lags behind COP27: Ipsos – National – Const Japan (const-japan.com)

Canada places 58 out of 63 in climate change performance ranking (yahoo.com)

Edited by Army Guy
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57 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

If you read them then you’ll know I was probably more of a green activist than anyone on here.   I lobbied governments and published articles, wrote the first Greenbelt Boundary Proposal for the GTA, and I have the letters and newspaper clippings to prove it, including from a number of MP’s, MPP’s, commissioners, mayors, and bureaucrats.   I’ve invested in solar and know a bit about alternative energy sources.

What I’ve learned is that green energy in its current form produces small amounts of energy, but there are great opportunities for integrating them into our building code for heating, cooling, and energy production (deep water cooling, geothermal, solar roof systems, slow poke mini reactors, etc.).  There are also ways to build smart communities that are more walkable and transit viable.  Victorian mill towns did this better than we do with their multiple train connections and complete communities (Saltaire is a great example).

Hydro is great but there are environmental impacts with concrete production (which produces emissions) and on ecosystems.  Same goes for nuclear.   Yet we need large generating stations to have a viable manufacturing and energy sector.  In fact this is about national security.  You can’t completely avoid emissions and environmental impacts.  Subways and trains lower emissions in the long term but require tremendous concrete production up front.  

The same goes for food production.  Blunt instruments like making farmers lower production and inflicting carbon taxes on the supply chain drives up food prices.  Carbon taxes drive up the costs of goods full stop.  That causes more poverty and less education.  Guess what?  People who are less educated generally have bigger families (carbon footprints).

My role is to point out the hypocrisy of our small minded and economically damaging climate policies.  All of our “climate action” will be overshadowed by high immigration, which is what our current government relies on to grow the economy.  The Liberals also like to make recent immigrants feel beholden to them and stoke fear about political opponents.  They try to win votes because their true motivation is self-preservation, not ending climate change or ending racial inequality.  The woke-green rhetoric is “Look I’m a good person” BS.  Much of it is overblown Marxist drivel that, if fully enacted, would drive our meritocracy and industry into the ground.  The cost of living is already punishingly high.  Home prices can’t come down much with demand continuing to rise under current immigration plans.  I won’t even get into the healthcare discussion.   

If you actually want a prosperous and free society, don’t support policies that undermine both.  This country has been going downhill since the Liberals took office, especially since their last mandate.  They aren’t even liberal.  It’s radical leftist amateur hour.

Interesting.  Thanks for the update.  I know that Dr. Suzuki has advocated for lower immigration for the reasons you have laid out.

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"Little Greta" has more brains and balls than anyone of the deniers sticking to their guns in 2022. She's definitely not all that interested in the opinions of old farts who fished out all the cod, the salmon, pumped 70 years of lead into the air, she's motivating young people.

Because her parents generation forgot they could or should even try to do things to improve life if it wasn't cost effective.

Wah those 3rd world people should be happy cooking roasted bugs over fires using our scrap plastic... why should I have to help them?

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

That matters to people like you, me and a few others on here, to the majority of Canadians they could not care less about our north, shit today nobody even likes fossil fuel it is evil black death according to the left. they drool all over themselves thinking how many more social programs our military could fund. 

They're just dumb. I remember when Trump was warning Europeans about relying on Russia for so much of their energy needs people on European subs were snickering and laughing. They literally thought there was no chance whatsoever that Russia would interrupt their fuel supplies. Of course, Obama warned them about the same thing a few years earlier but they ignored him too. Now look at them, especially the moronic Germans.

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13 minutes ago, herbie said:

"Little Greta" has more brains and balls than anyone of the deniers sticking to their guns in 2022. She's definitely not all that interested in the opinions of old farts who fished out all the cod, the salmon, pumped 70 years of lead into the air, she's motivating young people.

Because her parents generation forgot they could or should even try to do things to improve life if it wasn't cost effective.

Wah those 3rd world people should be happy cooking roasted bugs over fires using our scrap plastic... why should I have to help them?

Ha, you wouldn’t last a day in Greta’s green fascist paradise. No lattes or weed for the filthy humans.  

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21 minutes ago, herbie said:

"Little Greta" has more brains and balls than anyone of the deniers sticking to their guns in 2022. She's definitely not all that interested in the opinions of old farts who fished out all the cod, the salmon, pumped 70 years of lead into the air, she's motivating young people.

Because her parents generation forgot they could or should even try to do things to improve life if it wasn't cost effective.

Wah those 3rd world people should be happy cooking roasted bugs over fires using our scrap plastic... why should I have to help them?

No one who wants to make war on Capitalism is going to improve life for anyone.

And jamming in a bunch of leftist identity buzzwords like colonialism, imperialism, genocide, racism, oppression, etc. does not require brain power. it requires the lack of brain power.

Edited by I am Groot
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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Again: "Your statement applies to all collective action - everyone needs to contribute."

Why do I need to pay my taxes ?  It makes no difference to Canada on the whole...

But everyone is required to pay taxes. That is enforceable. No one is required to cut their CO2 emission. Developing world countries aren't even expected to do so.

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Finally, the premiers of Alberta and Saskatchewan are starting to understand the seriousness of Trudeau's attack on the energy industry the past seven years and are talking like they are going to stand up to him.  As this article says, Canada is not a unitary state where a federal government can dictate everything to the provinces and destroy their key industries all in the name of fighting climate change and achieving "net zero".

"

Both premiers have uttered a very interesting truth: that the federal government is a partner, not a ruler, in Confederation. They are also reminding Canadians of the very real dangers of being obsessed with the climate crusade.

A glance at world politics, the grim acceleration of food prices and inflation generally, Europe’s justified anxieties about heading into the coming winter with devastating fuel shortages — all of these are an outgrowth of the blind war on energy resources and the foolish and dangerous conviction that windmills and solar panels can run the modern, high-tech global economy."

"Rex Murphy: Western premiers finally push back against Trudeau's devastating agenda (msn.com)

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44 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

But everyone is required to pay taxes. That is enforceable. No one is required to cut their CO2 emission. Developing world countries aren't even expected to do so.

It's also easier to cheat on your taxes than to cheat out of an international agreement.  My point is that collective agreements amount to "the whole is greater than the parts"

So - yes, obviously Canada is a small part of this.  But that's a component of all collaboration.  So I don't see how it is a saleable point about an international agreement where everyone contributes according to their country's level.

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9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's also easier to cheat on your taxes than to cheat out of an international agreement.  My point is that collective agreements amount to "the whole is greater than the parts"

So - yes, obviously Canada is a small part of this.  But that's a component of all collaboration.  So I don't see how it is a saleable point about an international agreement where everyone contributes according to their country's level.

That’s assuming that everyone is in agreement that there’s a disease and everyone is in agreement on the cure.  I don’t think there’s clarity on even whether there’s a serious disease, let alone the cure.  Also in the list of world problems, manmade climate change isn’t our most pressing challenge.  Poverty, conflict, aggression, secure energy supply, disease, etc. are more pressing dangers.  I worry about the inhumane contortions countries will make to achieve impossible targets that may not make a significant difference to the climate trajectory.  In terms of bang for the buck you may find very little bang for one hell of a lot of bucks.  Meanwhile China builds 20 cities with over a million people fuelled by coal generating stations.  Meanwhile Trudeau’s meeting with G20 leaders flying private jets or Bill Gates’ Davos jet enterage emits as much greenhouse gas as a small village in a year.  Maybe Vesuvius erupts again and spews as much GG as Canada in a year.  We can do a certain amount through tech.  Carbon taxes add to the cost of living because existence is a carbon footprint. Let’s stop shooting ourselves in the feet.

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