blackbird Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) "Postmodernism is an intellectual stance or mode of discourse[1][2] defined by an attitude of skepticism toward the "grand narratives" associated with modernism, opposition to notions of epistemic certainty or the stability of meaning, and emphasis on the role of ideology in maintaining systems of socio-political power.[3][4] Claims to objective fact are dismissed as naive realism,[5] with attention drawn to the conditional nature of knowledge claims within particular historical, political, and cultural discourses.[4] Thus, the postmodern outlook is characterized by self-referentiality, epistemological relativism, moral relativism, pluralism, irony, irreverence, and eclecticism;[4] it rejects the "universal validity" of binary oppositions, stable identity, hierarchy, and categorization.[6][7]" --- Wikipedia This term came to my attention and made me think of the general attitudes or thinking in society and politics that think that there is no absolute truth. The common belief particularly in liberal ideology and NDP ideology is that there are no absolute truths or moral values. They seem to believe that truth is what men decide it is for today and they reject what has been believed as truth down through the ages. Post modernism seems to be an excellent term to broadly describe the general thinking in many areas of life and politics. The one area I think it is important is in the area of moral relativism. The general belief in liberal ideology is that there is no absolute truth and everything is relative or whatever someone can make an argument in support of must be acceptable or true. I would challenge that with my belief that there is one absolute truth as revealed in Holy Scripture. That is God's revelation to man. Since God is unchangeable, it is reasonable to believe that in his revelation or written word there are certain absolutes that are unchangeable. This demolishes the ideas in liberalism or postmodernism held by many people and politicians today. This is even true in the spiritual sphere where there are hundreds of English translations of the Holy Scriptures and most churches today believe there is no one translation which is the absolute inspired truth. I am referring only to English language translations. I believe there is one absolute inspired Bible in the English language known as the King James Version or King James Bible and furthermore I have much information to prove it is and to expose the hundreds of modern versions as being corrupt. The King James Version is the only version based on the Received Text. I have run into conflict with ministers and people in what I would say are to some degree post modern churches. On the one hand they say they believe in the inspiration of Scriptures but then they cannot say which Bible is the correct one. There is a major flaw in this claim because modern versions differ with the King James Bible in thousands of places. Most of them have not studied this issue; yet they are adamant what they are using as a Bible is perfectly fine. But that is just one example of the world we are living in where error abounds. Edited November 2, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 "Is post modernism one of the evils of modern western society that drives Federal politics?" No. Social media and ability to be anonymous is the avenue for the discourse and drives todays politics. People blindly buying into the rhetoric of political leaders such as Trump has invaded politics everywhere. Quite reminiscent of the political leanings in Germany in the late 30's where a popular leader brainwashed the populace. People vehemently preaching, be it the literature in the Bible or political philosophy to gain popularity or foothold for gains, personal or professional, are what drives politics. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 Interesting thread. Blackbird has actually done a good job of encapsulating this, from a Wikipedia article it looks like. The one thing that people miss is that the skepticism has seeped into society on all levels, and for ALL politics. There's no way a Donald Trump would have been nominated in 1960. In 1964 a "moderate" Republican challenged, and he was supported by skeptics in the mold of MAGA types. ( See Richard Hofstadter in The Atlantic 1965) It's a Philosophy, and one that is on the wane. ExFlyer, you need to realize though that Postmodernism oversaw the death of Religion (Still important in Modernism, but started to die when Postmodernism arrived, with Nietzshe) but that "traditional values" are finding their place again. This is called Metamodernism. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Interesting thread. Blackbird has actually done a good job of encapsulating this, from a Wikipedia article it looks like. The one thing that people miss is that the skepticism has seeped into society on all levels, and for ALL politics. There's no way a Donald Trump would have been nominated in 1960. In 1964 a "moderate" Republican challenged, and he was supported by skeptics in the mold of MAGA types. ( See Richard Hofstadter in The Atlantic 1965) It's a Philosophy, and one that is on the wane. ExFlyer, you need to realize though that Postmodernism oversaw the death of Religion (Still important in Modernism, but started to die when Postmodernism arrived, with Nietzshe) but that "traditional values" are finding their place again. This is called Metamodernism. "traditional values" has me confused. What tradition? What values are those? Religious? Christian religious? All of blackbirds posts lean heavily to christian religions and there are many religions and they all have value to their followers. "MAGA types" seem very "christian value" driven. Are these conservative values only and all others are to be spurned? I see a value in both sides and some other sides too. Values are not a one sided thing. They can be a triangle, square sided or even a pentagon. King James values are one small part, a very small part, in todays world. Edited November 2, 2022 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Interesting thread. Blackbird has actually done a good job of encapsulating this, from a Wikipedia article it looks like. The one thing that people miss is that the skepticism has seeped into society on all levels, and for ALL politics. There's no way a Donald Trump would have been nominated in 1960. In 1964 a "moderate" Republican challenged, and he was supported by skeptics in the mold of MAGA types. ( See Richard Hofstadter in The Atlantic 1965) It's a Philosophy, and one that is on the wane. ExFlyer, you need to realize though that Postmodernism oversaw the death of Religion (Still important in Modernism, but started to die when Postmodernism arrived, with Nietzshe) but that "traditional values" are finding their place again. This is called Metamodernism. Trump's positions were mainstream Democrat positions just 25 years ago. The left has just gone to looney town now anything to the right of Stalin and Lenin is seen as far right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, West said: Trump's positions were mainstream Democrat positions just 25 years ago. The left has just gone to looney town now anything to the right of Stalin and Lenin is seen as far right You literally could not provide a better example of oblivious projection than you did here. ? 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 33 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: 1. "traditional values" has me confused. What tradition? What values are those? Religious? Christian religious? All of blackbirds posts lean heavily to christian religions and there are many religions and they all have value to their followers. 2. "MAGA types" seem very "christian value" driven. 1. Family, religion and such... It's a colloquial term that I thought everyone used. And tolerance is part of this. 2. I don't think MAGA types are exactly driven by true Christian values, sorry. Anyway, don't shoot the messenger... lots of interesting articles and even respectable short videos on Modernism, PostModernism and MetaModernism out there. To me, Trump is the apex of PostModern politics... basically a troll that wouldn't have been allowed on television in the early era of political TV, who would have been run out of politics for his behaviour winning the big prize. Dwight D. Eisenhower would have hated what MAGA is. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Moonbox said: You literally could not provide a better example of oblivious projection than you did here. ? 25 years ago was President Clinton and the Lewinsky scandal, so ... he's not exactly wrong... Edited November 2, 2022 by Michael Hardner Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 25 years ago was President Clinton and the Lewinsky scandal, so ... he's not exactly wrong... Clinton also supported restrictions on abortions, border security, peace thru strength etc etc.. even said "Make America Great Again" https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4600782/user-clip-bill-clinton-make-america-great-again Really not much different between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 25 years ago was President Clinton and the Lewinsky scandal, so ... he's not exactly wrong... Not really the part I was referring to. ? 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted April 15, 2023 Report Share Posted April 15, 2023 A neat little explanation as to why Wokeness isn't a branch of Postmodernism https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/04/15/in-defence-of-postmodernism/ Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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