Ontario’s bill to stop CUPE strike

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

 

Capitalism says that we pay what is needed to obtain enough workers. In that way we establish the proper economic value of a given job.  

There's a lot about that statement that can be challenged.  All markets are skewed somehow, and you can't escape the politics of it. 

I think that the people and government settled the question about the fairness of legislation for this labour group.

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There's a lot about that statement that can be challenged.  All markets are skewed somehow, and you can't escape the politics of it. 

I think that the people and government settled the question about the fairness of legislation for this labour group.

The real question is how much they get, and how much giving the same to all the other government and public sector unions will cost, and how much that in turn will cost. Raising taxes further damages the economy. To not raise taxes would require cutting money from healthcare, education or social services - the three major big ticket items in provincial budgets.

Contrarily, how many parents do you think will join you in singing solidarity forever in the fourth month of a school strike with no end in sight?

Edited November 14, 2022 by I am Groot

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, I am Groot said:

1. The real question is how much they get, and how much giving the same to all the other government and public sector unions will cost, and how much that in turn will cost. Raising taxes further damages the economy. To not raise taxes would require cutting money from healthcare, education or social services - the three major big ticket items in provincial budgets.

2. Contrarily, how many parents do you think will join you in singing solidarity forever in the fourth month of a school strike with no end in sight?

1. Again there's much to challenge there.  Tax cuts help the economy, then so do price cuts and therefore private wage reductions.  I'm just saying that it's not straightforward.

2. I am going to lose interest in this discussion if you mischaracterize my position.

[I am Groot]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Again there's much to challenge there.  Tax cuts help the economy, then so do price cuts and therefore private wage reductions. 

That is a generalization. Tax cuts CAN help the economy, depending on how they're structured. And wage reductions can help the overall GDP if they generate more business but they don't necessarily help ordinary Canadians. And certainly not the parents of children expensively educated who have to wave goodbye at the airport and perhaps see them once a year...

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I am going to lose interest in this discussion if you mischaracterize my position.

I wasn't aware I had. You seem to be quite strongly opposed to Ford using the notwithstanding clause to end the teaching strike and appeared to be somewhat celebrating the union movement drawing together against him. Perhaps you were simply stating what you saw. Though it seemed clear you were pleased that Ford was defeated by the union.

Edited November 14, 2022 by I am Groot

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. That is a generalization. Tax cuts CAN help the economy, depending on how they're structured. And wage reductions can help the overall GDP if they generate more business but they don't necessarily help ordinary Canadians.

2. And certainly not the parents of children expensively educated who have to wave goodbye at the airport and perhaps see them once a year...

3. I wasn't aware I had. You seem to be quite strongly opposed to Ford using the notwithstanding clause to end the teaching strike

4. and appeared to be somewhat celebrating the union movement drawing together against him.

 

1. It seems we agree here.
2. I don't get the reference.
3. Yes, so your characterization doesn't say that.  It calls me a leftist hippie, in a manner.  And it wasn't a teacher strike.
4. Just in awe of the strategic failure of the Ford camp.

[I am Groot]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It seems we agree here.
2. I don't get the reference.

Based on an article I read a few years ago talking of large numbers of Canadian kids recently graduated from the best universities leaving for greener pastures. For software engineers it was two thirds of them leaving Canada. Smaller amounts from other high tech fields.

 

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Yes, so your characterization doesn't say that.  It calls me a leftist hippie, in a manner.  And it wasn't a teacher strike.

My mistake then, sorry. And it was an 'education' strike, which like all of them is ALWAYS portrayed by the union as 'for the children'. Pardon my cynicism for such people.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. Just in awe of the strategic failure of the Ford camp.

Why? They're not very good at very many things aside from blowing in the wind. I can't honestly think of anything they've done which impressed me. Their last good idea was funding more LTC beds and that was in their previous election platform.

Edited November 14, 2022 by I am Groot

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, I am Groot said:

1. For software engineers it was two thirds of them leaving Canada. Smaller amounts from other high tech fields.

2. My mistake then, sorry. And it was an 'education' strike, which like all of them is ALWAYS portrayed by the union as 'for the children'. Pardon my cynicism for such people.

3. Why? They're not very good at very many things aside from blowing in the wind.

1. Yes, b/c we pay higher taxes than in the US presumably.  We want a different country, though, and maybe those who leave don't agree.   We have had to deal with that problem since forever.  
2. We don't have to discuss PR slogans.  A lot of people on here don't understand that.
3. A pretty big failure.  

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes, b/c we pay higher taxes than in the US presumably.  We want a different country, though, and maybe those who leave don't agree.   We have had to deal with that problem since forever.  

Higher taxes, higher prices on housing, lower wages. I don't think being convinced to go elsewhere by that is necessarily a political statement. 

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. We don't have to discuss PR slogans.  A lot of people on here don't understand that.
3. A pretty big failure.  

They've routinely done dumb stuff and then backed down when challenged. Ford is no Harris and seems to lack much in the way of vision or ideas.

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. Higher taxes, higher prices on housing, lower wages.

2. I don't think being convinced to go elsewhere by that is necessarily a political statement. 

3. They've routinely done dumb stuff and then backed down when challenged. Ford is no Harris and seems to lack much in the way of vision or ideas.

1.  This is a 'depends' thing.
2. I don't know about 'political statement', it's a choice as is our choice to run our country our way.
3. Harris definitely had better strategists.

[Contrarian]

CUPE school support staff set to strike again after talks with province break down.

(Star). 

 

[ExFlyer]

Over and done.  Back at work

the union says comes with a $1-per-hour raise each year, or about 3.59 per cent annually, for the average worker.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9325308/cupe-tentative-deal-vote-results/