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New deficit numbers are in and they are gross.


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Not sure where all this funding went to, wasn't health care, education, or any of our security apparatus depts, was not Justins 7000 dollar hotel fees, so where did all the money go...

90 Bil added to the national deficit this year, a year where we were pretty much pandemic free, we did sign on for so more social programs, but not even close to 90 bil, maybe someone can explain it to all the working class, why this year's deficits are so high. I like to hear from a liberal if this is ok. 

It’s official: Canada ran a $90.2 billion deficit last year (msn.com)

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Not sure where all this funding went to, wasn't health care, education, or any of our security apparatus depts, was not Justins 7000 dollar hotel fees, so where did all the money go...

90 Bil added to the national deficit this year, a year where we were pretty much pandemic free, we did sign on for so more social programs, but not even close to 90 bil, maybe someone can explain it to all the working class, why this year's deficits are so high. I like to hear from a liberal if this is ok. 

It’s official: Canada ran a $90.2 billion deficit last year (msn.com)

none of this really matters anymore

because at this point, Canada has gone beyond borrowing

the Bank of Canada is at this point simply printing new dollars to fund the government

so deficits are no longer the measuring stick

the Bank of Canada is just flooding the economy with printed money now

hence why inflation is driving all prices up, as your dollars are worth less by printing ever more of them

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16 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

total government spending in Canada amounts to 44% of GDP, one of the highest percentages in the world

so if you cut government spending, that will cause a severe recession in of itself

This isn’t true.  If the spending was on wider infrastructure programs, that might make sense.  Public program spending is not a net driver of gdp. Excessive spending has a drag effect, as we saw in the 80’s and early 90’s.  It can only lead to higher taxes and large companies do follow federal budgets when making decisions on where to invest their next dollar of capital or hire their next worker.  
 

 

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

This isn’t true.  If the spending was on wider infrastructure programs, that might make sense.  Public program spending is not a net driver of gdp. Excessive spending has a drag effect, as we saw in the 80’s and early 90’s.  It can only lead to higher taxes and large companies do follow federal budgets when making decisions on where to invest their next dollar of capital or hire their next worker.  
 

 

I don't see that in the liberal message, infact Justins main narrative was interest rates are low, now is the time to spend, and perhaps it was in the first couple years of his reign, but even Justin knows the interest rates today, and still he turned in a 90 bil plus deficit. with no end in sight, Canadians are in love with social programs and pocket money regardless of cost, at some point even liberal voters are going to have to say enough is enough. But so far higher taxes do not scare the left. but it will shortly. 

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42 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I don't see that in the liberal message, infact Justins main narrative was interest rates are low, now is the time to spend,

That was the message in his first election where he beat Harper.  Infrastructure spending with low interest rates isn't the worst thing in the world.  Wild program expenditure expansion most certainly is, and that's been Justin's record.  

42 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

But so far higher taxes do not scare the left. but it will shortly. 

Doesn't scare some, it does scare others.  If not for the silliness of right-wing rhetoric, we likely could have seen a new and more pragmatic Prime Minister much earlier.  The conspiracy theories and whatnot only scared people back to him.  

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59 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

That was the message in his first election where he beat Harper.  Infrastructure spending with low interest rates isn't the worst thing in the world.  Wild program expenditure expansion most certainly is, and that's been Justin's record.  

Doesn't scare some, it does scare others.  If not for the silliness of right-wing rhetoric, we likely could have seen a new and more pragmatic Prime Minister much earlier.  The conspiracy theories and whatnot only scared people back to him.  

That was also what Justin was saying last year, when we still had low interest rates, hence another 90 Bil deficit for 2021. We have a massive amount of funding in the infra structure bank, but so far, we have dipped barely into any of that, why is that, it would have been much better than these few social programs we are invested into.

Not sure if one can call it right wing rhetoric, i think from a purely economic sense most liberal economic policies, to date are senseless, did the conservatives prolong this liberal leadership, by all means i will agree with you 100%. 

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Not sure if one can call it right wing rhetoric, i think from a purely economic sense most liberal economic policies, to date are senseless, did the conservatives prolong this liberal leadership, by all means i will agree with you 100%. 

I don't like the Liberal economic policies.  I don't think Trudeau is even a remotely competent economic manager.  I bet most Canadians also agree with that, and have for some time. In the last election, however, many people who otherwise wouldn't have considered voting for Trudeau did so anyways because O'Toole wouldn't take a proper stand against conspiracy theories and goof rhetoric within his own party. 

The last election wasn't an endorsement of Trudeau by any means.  It was a repudiation of far-right nonsense.   

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18 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I don't like the Liberal economic policies.  I don't think Trudeau is even a remotely competent economic manager.  I bet most Canadians also agree with that, and have for some time. In the last election, however, many people who otherwise wouldn't have considered voting for Trudeau did so anyways because O'Toole wouldn't take a proper stand against conspiracy theories and goof rhetoric within his own party. 

The last election wasn't an endorsement of Trudeau by any means.  It was a repudiation of far-right nonsense.   

I'm just curious, what conspiracy theories and goof rhetoric are we talking about here? the reason i'm asking is i thought Otoole flip flop during hie election run is what cost him votes, it is the reason i did not vote in the last election. 

This is the message i got from your statement, Liberal voters don't agree on liberal economic policies, or direction those policies are taking us right now, which are responsible, or they have a role to play in our current poor economic times. But they would rather live in poor economic times as we have right now, than deal with some conspiracy theories?

Maybe i' missing something, as i sometimes do, what theories or rhetoric would that be? at least serious enough to be able to live in poor economic times.

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1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

I'm just curious, what conspiracy theories and goof rhetoric are we talking about here? the reason i'm asking is i thought Otoole flip flop during hie election run is what cost him votes, it is the reason i did not vote in the last election. 

He possibly lost votes among more hardline conservatives by flip-flopping, but also failed to secure the far larger voter share he was courting.  Playing footsie with the anti-science and/or anti-mandate crowd right up until it was too late (where he flip-flopped) demonstrated a profound lack of wisdom and sincerity.  The Small C's and Blue Libs (the folks who actually decide the elections) wanted nothing to do with him as a result.  

1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

This is the message i got from your statement, Liberal voters don't agree on liberal economic policies, or direction those policies are taking us right now, which are responsible, or they have a role to play in our current poor economic times. But they would rather live in poor economic times as we have right now, than deal with some conspiracy theories?

Liberal voters aren't a homogenous group.  I wouldn't typically consider myself one, since I've voted Liberal twice in the last 20 years (and never once provincially).  You may not remember my posting history from back in the Harper days, but I was extremely anti-Liberal.  That someone like me would turn his back on the federal Conservatives is why they've lost the last three elections against an unpopular PM who's had a negative approval rating since before the pandemic.  

Regardless, nobody chose "poor economic times" over some potentially better alternative.  We're headed for poor economic times regardless of Trudeau, but the economy is one issue among many and it's not like the Conservatives were going to prevent inflation or erase the deficits all of the sudden.  What voters did choose was to reject the political weaponization of ignorance and loud noises (Trumpism, let's say).  

 

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22 hours ago, Moonbox said:

1.. He possibly lost votes among more hardline conservatives by flip-flopping, but also failed to secure the far larger voter share he was courting.  Playing footsie with the anti-science and/or anti-mandate crowd right up until it was too late (where he flip-flopped) demonstrated a profound lack of wisdom and sincerity.  The Small C's and Blue Libs (the folks who actually decide the elections) wanted nothing to do with him as a result.  

Liberal voters aren't a homogenous group.  I wouldn't typically consider myself one, since I've voted Liberal twice in the last 20 years (and never once provincially).  You may not remember my posting history from back in the Harper days, but I was extremely anti-Liberal.  That someone like me would turn his back on the federal Conservatives is why they've lost the last three elections against an unpopular PM who's had a negative approval rating since before the pandemic.  

Regardless, nobody chose "poor economic times" over some potentially better alternative.  We're headed for poor economic times regardless of Trudeau, but the economy is one issue among many and it's not like the Conservatives were going to prevent inflation or erase the deficits all of the sudden.  What voters did choose was to reject the political weaponization of ignorance and loud noises (Trumpism, let's say).  

 

1.. I agree with almost everything you say here, Science does not hold the same reverence as it used to, like the benefits of Vaccines, or the limitless number of genders, it seems more and more people are convinced science is not a 100 % guarantee of anything. 

2. I don't agree, i think the average Canadian is facing tougher times, and will vote with their pocketbooks, whom every will give them the most, Justin Campaign team have used this fiscal conservative thing as a weapon, and they have done a good job of it, Canadians are frightened of losing whatever benefits Justin has given them to date. They are afraid of tightening their belts. they want more of the same money, money money. 

3. This entire poor economy may not be all of Justin's fault, but to say Justin's policies have not influenced it or made it worst is dishonest. Example, it is said only half the funding spent on the pandemic was spent on helping Canadians be it finically or through vaccines and Equpment, and not many Canadians are asking where all the money went, nobody cares. becasue they got a share.

This point best case is a reduction in inflation could easily obtained, I also think the left are just as guilty of weaponization of political issues like LGBTQ community and the unlimited genders or sexual identity.  So yes, it is one crazy time we live in,

 

Edited by Army Guy
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53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1.. I agree with almost everything you say here, Science does not hold the same reverence as it used to, like the benefits of Vaccines, or the limitless number of genders, it seems more and more people are convinced science is not a 100 % guarantee of anything. 

That's how Justin won the last election.  Just deciding that the science isn't real because it doesn't fit your worldview isn't really how it works.  Canadians watched what happened in the USA 2016-2020 and they decided they'll bear 4 more years of Trudeau instead of that sort of nonsense.  

53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

2. I don't agree, i think the average Canadian is facing tougher times, and will vote with their pocketbooks, whom every will give them the most, Justin Campaign team have used this fiscal conservative thing as a weapon, and they have done a good job of it, Canadians are frightened of losing whatever benefits Justin has given them to date. They are afraid of tightening their belts. they want more of the same money, money money. 

The last election was a referendum on the approach to COVID-19.  You have a Liberal government backed up now by an NDP minority.  Of course they're to waste a lot of money.  

53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

3. This entire poor economy may not be all of Justin's fault, but to say Justin's policies have not influenced it or made it worst is dishonest. 

I'm not saying he didn't influence it.  I'm saying that the effects of his overspending have no yet reverberated or trickled down.  He's kind of just putting his head in the sand and pretending it won't have a significant cost down the road.   

53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

This point best case is a reduction in inflation could easily obtained, I also think the left are just as guilty of weaponization of political issues like LGBTQ community and the unlimited genders or sexual identity.  So yes, it is one crazy time we live in,

Yes.  The left is very guilty too.  The problem you and others seem to have is that you don't recognize any middle ground.  It's as if not supporting far-right conspiracy nonsense means you automatically support overbearing wokeness.  

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Jack Mintz: Trudeau follows Biden down the path to economic ruin

It is ironic that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's Liberals chose the same unsuccessful policy path as the Democrats in Thursday’s fiscal update

In next week’s midterm elections in the United States, President Joe Biden’s Democrats will be judged by the electorate. In the past year, Biden has pushed up deficits and taxes to fund a hefty dose of climate, social and industrial subsidies, growth-inhibiting regulations, infrastructure spending and student-loan forgiveness. With runaway inflation and rising interest rates and energy costs, Americans will decide if they like this policy mix or not.

If the polls are right, it looks like the Democrats are in for a shellacking, losing the House and likely the Senate as Republican support surges over economic issues. It is ironic, therefore, that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberals chose the same unsuccessful policy path as the Democrats in Thursday’s fiscal update.

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On 11/2/2022 at 7:28 PM, Moonbox said:

I don't like the Liberal economic policies.  I don't think Trudeau is even a remotely competent economic manager.  I bet most Canadians also agree with that, and have for some time. In the last election, however, many people who otherwise wouldn't have considered voting for Trudeau did so anyways because O'Toole wouldn't take a proper stand against conspiracy theories and goof rhetoric within his own party. 

O'Toole didn't lose because of 'goof rhetoric' or conspiracy theories. He was sailing high until Trudeau hit him with the mean looking gun ban list and accused him of wanting to let everyone have an assault weapon. And O'Toole then babbled while drooling down the front of his suit and the next day repudiated his own party for daring to suggest the mean looking gun ban was dumb. It was one sign of weakness and one flip-flop too many. His fortunes turned around on that issue.

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

That's how Justin won the last election.  Just deciding that the science isn't real because it doesn't fit your worldview isn't really how it works.  Canadians watched what happened in the USA 2016-2020 and they decided they'll bear 4 more years of Trudeau instead of that sort of nonsense.  

The last election was a referendum on the approach to COVID-19.  You have a Liberal government backed up now by an NDP minority.  Of course they're to waste a lot of money.  

I'm not saying he didn't influence it.  I'm saying that the effects of his overspending have no yet reverberated or trickled down.  He's kind of just putting his head in the sand and pretending it won't have a significant cost down the road.   

Yes.  The left is very guilty too.  The problem you and others seem to have is that you don't recognize any middle ground.  It's as if not supporting far-right conspiracy nonsense means you automatically support overbearing wokeness.  

Comparing the conservatives with the Republicans is not apples and oranges it is not even in the same ballpark. Shit we would not even make the standard for being a democrat.

I'm all for middle ground, I've been looking for middle ground for a long while now, only to find out there is no middle ground left in this country, on any side... all we have is I'm right your wrong, and I'm going to shout over your message until you give up. comprise is Truely a lost art form, only to be found in a museum. And yes, i am guilty as anyone else. Only i don't want to just support overbearing wokeness, i think our nation needs to come back to the center, or it never recovers in this generation. 

 

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14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Comparing the conservatives with the Republicans is not apples and oranges it is not even in the same ballpark. Shit we would not even make the standard for being a democrat.

I agree 100%, but there is noticeable overlap between the Republicans and the more right-wing part of the Conservative base.  Those are the politics that the rest of Canada firmly rejects, has for a long time, and will likely continue to reject.  

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I'm all for middle ground, I've been looking for middle ground for a long while now, only to find out there is no middle ground left in this country, on any side...

There's always middle ground.  It's a question of who is willing to accept it.  There are those willing to compromise, and those who are unwilling.   

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

all we have is I'm right your wrong, and I'm going to shout over your message until you give up. comprise is Truely a lost art form, only to be found in a museum. And yes, i am guilty as anyone else. Only i don't want to just support overbearing wokeness, i think our nation needs to come back to the center, or it never recovers in this generation. 

Agreed, but what the centre looks like is up for debate. Judging by the squawking on these forums, I'm a far-left Libby, which I've never heard in my life up until the last couple of years.  If a lifetime (but not diehard) conservative is what folk consider a lefty/libby, I don't really know where that leaves us on compromise.  

 

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14 hours ago, I am Groot said:

O'Toole didn't lose because of 'goof rhetoric' or conspiracy theories. He was sailing high until Trudeau hit him with the mean looking gun ban list and accused him of wanting to let everyone have an assault weapon. 

You're breathing different air than the rest of us if you think Trudeau won the election over guns, which was way down the list of voter priorities during a pandemic lockdown.  ?

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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You're breathing different air than the rest of us if you think Trudeau won the election over guns, which was way down the list of voter priorities during a pandemic lockdown.  ?

I said the gun reversal was one flipflop too many and O'Toole came out looking weak and indecisive. Nobody knew what, if anything he stood for. HE collapsed indecisively about the vaccination mandate too, unable to state a coherent case for his policy beliefs. Which Trudeau had shared up until he saw himself falling behind in early polls after he'd called the election btw. Prior to that he'd dismissed mandates as too divisive. When he saw the polls he decided he'd be as divisive as he needed if it got him re-elected.

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I said the gun reversal was one flipflop too many and O'Toole came out looking weak and indecisive. Nobody knew what, if anything he stood for.

That part is true, but at that point in time nobody cared about gun laws.  I'd argue even now that gun legislation is very low on the list of average Canadians' prioroties. 

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

HE collapsed indecisively about the vaccination mandate too, unable to state a coherent case for his policy beliefs. Which Trudeau had shared up until he saw himself falling behind in early polls after he'd called the election btw.

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall Trudeau anything but fully supportive of mandates once they got over Theresa Tam's myopic and incoherent handling of the early days of the crisis. 

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14 hours ago, Moonbox said:

That part is true, but at that point in time nobody cared about gun laws.  I'd argue even now that gun legislation is very low on the list of average Canadians' prioroties. 

It wasn't the gun law itself but his inability to defend his position and then his flipflop. The media lovingly dwelled on how great an example that was of him blowing in the wind and having no set beliefs.

14 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Maybe I missed something, but I don't recall Trudeau anything but fully supportive of mandates once they got over Theresa Tam's myopic and incoherent handling of the early days of the crisis. 

https://globalnews.ca/video/7576461/coronavirus-trudeau-opposes-vaccine-passports-in-canada-says-it-would-have-divisive-impacts

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On 11/5/2022 at 8:20 PM, Moonbox said:

That part is true, but at that point in time nobody cared about gun laws.  I'd argue even now that gun legislation is very low on the list of average Canadians' prioroties. 

 

What do Canadians know about priorities, we all have proclaimed Climate change is a priority and yet we are pleased and happy with the way it is progressing globally, (my Opinion nobody really cares ) our health care just plain sucks, it is on the priority list but once again nobody really cares to take any action to make changes, perhaps we should all protest in Ottawa, have 2 weeks drinking fest blow horns, party in hot tubs...maybe something everyone could get on board with.  Let's not even mention things that will get you canceled for even thinking about them...

So, it is not surprising that nobody cares about gun control, it is just who we are as a people, show me the money, or i'm out.

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