The Elon Musk Movement = )

[Contrarian]

You know it was coming. We all eventually need to choose a shepherd regardless of who you are  = )

Rarely someone makes it by own. 

This will be a thread for the evolution of Elon Musk, maybe a leader of a movement outside the Left/Right Spectrum. 

A friend of mine has the following theory: "He is shaking the left now, then he will shake the right, this is how you get quality centrists." 

Aside from the comedy, I want to see the evolution of Elon Musk now that he drives the powerful social media of Twitter.

You learn of someone's true value when they have power.

This is when the true self of someone comes out in my opinion.

Marcus Aurelius knew this and hired someone to whisper in his ear after great wins that: 

"You are just a man, You are just a man". 

Will Elon Musk be able to calibrate society without falling himself into the traps of different fringe interests? 

Dark Comedy: 
I hope he runs a TV station to troll the fringes of both the left and the right for dividing society in North America all these years. 

https://twitter.com/elonmusk

Edited October 29, 2022 by Contrarian

[Contrarian]

Twitter could split into strands allowing users to stage rows, Elon Musk says. 

The billionaire owner suggests the platform could have different video game-style modes, including a ‘player versus player’. 

I think that is a great idea. 

Imagine if members of groups like Antifa and Proud boys just use a Virtual Reality console to solve their differences.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Contrarian

[Moonlight Graham]

Musk hasn't been conscious of business realities since he sold Paypal and got rich in the first place.  Now he's just fooling around on dreams and fantasies with his and stockholder money.  I mean that's fine, we could use a dreamer like him, but he's probably going to waste a lot of money too.  If his rockets and tunnel co don't catch on well he's burning a lot of cash.

Overall he's obsessed with being the next Steve Jobs.  Apple products are over-priced pretty things that aren't the most practical but bougie nerds and trendy shmucks swoon over.  Enter:  the Tesla truck.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Moonlight Graham

[Aristides]

Never been on Twitter. Even less likely now.

[Michael Hardner]

What kind of "society" goes to an erratic billionaire to "calibrate" it?

We need to reconstitute a critical mass of responsible 'public'.

I have small hopes that Twitter will retain anti trolling measures and democratize the algorithm.  We'll see.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What kind of "society" goes to an erratic billionaire to "calibrate" it?

We need to reconstitute a critical mass of responsible 'public'.

I have small hopes that Twitter will retain anti trolling measures and democratize the algorithm.  We'll see.

Other problems:  the public square has only 140 characters (or whatever it is now) and the most controversial tweets get the most eyeballs.

This is the Jerry Springerization of society.

People criticize Joe Rogan but at least his show isn't built on short attention spans and memes.

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Other problems:  the public square has only 140 characters (or whatever it is now) and the most controversial tweets get the most eyeballs.

This is the Jerry Springerization of society.

People criticize Joe Rogan but at least his show isn't built on short attention spans and memes.

I agree with some of this.

Democracy was built on the idea of a public sphere; known members of the public engaging in honest discussion with healthy opposition.

Memes and podcasts don't usually pass the test.

[ironstone]

Many people are up in arms over Elon Musk buying Twitter and I admit that it's kind of amusing to see all those meltdowns over nothing. I don't hear the same complaints about billionaires like Jeff Bezos and his control of WaPo or Zuckerberg and Facebook. A lot of people have no problem with billionaire George Soros making sure violent criminals get back on the street ASAP.

I'm not on Twitter or Facebook and have no desire to join.

It remains to be seen if Twitter will actually allow conservative speech or just keep censoring it.

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree with some of this.

Democracy was built on the idea of a public sphere; known members of the public engaging in honest discussion with healthy opposition.

Memes and podcasts don't usually pass the test.

But then again what was the public square before the internet?  Where did ordinary people across the country get to discuss ideas?

TV, newspapers, magazines.  Much less public participation with more "gatekeepers" (not trying to reference PP lol).

So maybe before social media we had educated professional journalists and politicians and scholars and rich people mostly telling us what to think, and we made up our minds based on which ideas of theirs we agreed with.  Now we have equal exposure to Bubba Joe's opinion as we do "the experts", whether Bubba Joe is properly exposing the elites or simply spreading BS (or possibly even a domestic or foreign actor speaking BS on purpose)

Which is to say: we have to now sift through so much more BS to find facts and good ideas, and the likelihood of us realizing something is BS is less than 100%, especially with lower educated people with less critical thinking skills/ knowledge.  So the info/ ideas we're exposed to are now less anti-elitist & democratized (probably a good thing) but also more exposed to more lies and bad ideas (bad thing).

We'll see how Elon does trying to fix these issues.  He's an elite gatekeeper, but so was the old Twitter.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. But then again what was the public square before the internet?  Where did ordinary people across the country get to discuss ideas?

TV, newspapers, magazines.  Much less public participation with more "gatekeepers" (not trying to reference PP lol).

2. So maybe before social media we had educated professional journalists and politicians and scholars and rich people mostly telling us what to think, and we made up our minds based on which ideas of theirs we agreed with. 

3. Now we have equal exposure to Bubba Joe's opinion as we do "the experts", whether Bubba Joe is properly exposing the elites or simply spreading BS (or possibly even a domestic or foreign actor speaking BS on purpose)

4. Which is to say: we have to now sift through so much more BS to find facts and good ideas, and the likelihood of us realizing something is BS is less than 100%, especially with lower educated people with less critical thinking skills/ knowledge.  So the info/ ideas we're exposed to are now less anti-elitist & democratized (probably a good thing) but also more exposed to more lies and bad ideas (bad thing).

We'll see how Elon does trying to fix these issues.  He's an elite gatekeeper, but so was the old Twitter.

1. I really recommend Neil Postman "Amusing Ourselves to Death" as a great read on this.  It talks about early and later period.  The transition is left to the imagination.

2. Yes, and Intellectuals and Clergy.

3. Yes, and Trolls and Bots.

4. Yes, mostly.   I don't give much credit to education.  Early Americans were self taught, but intellectually honest and curious.

 

[WestCanMan]

On 10/29/2022 at 9:00 AM, Contrarian said:

 A friend of mine has the following theory: "He is shaking the left now, then he will shake the right, this is how you get quality centrists." 

That's quite the theory. I like it. 

I personally think that at some point Musk has to throw a hard left hook, if you get my meaning, otherwise he's gonna hurt his own brand too much. 

Nothing stupid, like going along with "Jan 6 = 9/11", but at some point leftists have to be on the right side of history, even if it's just something as benign and non-partisan as (the theory of) an infrastructure bill (which is always just a shallow excuse for doling out some crony cash to their wealthy friends in construction). Musk needs to play that up for the sake of appeasement, imo. Leftards are tireless crusaders of cancel culture, and even if they can never be correct about anything they'll eventually gaslight people into oblivion. Kanye West is a perfect example - if he was ever sane, he's far from it now. 

As far as Musk destroying his own centrist credibility is concerned, right now he's just "guilty of" standing up for free speech, which sadly makes him look ultra-conservative, but eventually, if we're all smarter than chimps, the political polarization will fall away from that argument and he will just be seen to have done the right thing (which is arguably a centrist thing, but I'll still maintain that I'm wholly conservative even if we are in agreement here).

If he can draw people towards the center he's a messiah as far as I'm concerned. Even I don't like how far right I'm getting. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by WestCanMan

[Contrarian]

The way I see it:

We have a lower attention span due to technology. 

Twitter has reached to our insticts and tribalism. This is why the division has intensified lately. Magnifying glass.

Before social media people used to come from work, watch some TV, sports, call people, go outside and when you have those things -> your brain allows for thoughts to be analysed. To think about things before reacting.

I am watching Musk to see if after he is done with pissing off the fringes, will he move the platform towards a healthy discussion while working with this attention span?

Find a different way to make people engage, when people are less angry is civility.

There is no going back unless some radical anti-technology folks stage a revolution.

Joe Rogan I listen to him sometimes, outside the box thinker, has flaws like every human, but eventually I think he will need to adapt to this short span game for younger generations that were raised with the smartphone.

Most times when I try to speak politics and show a podcast/video I get this answer from a member of the smartphone generation: "How long is it"?

If the video is over 5 minutes forget about it.

They lost interest or they are not remembering the main point. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Contrarian

[Contrarian]

Today in Musk's world from what I read:

- He deleted a tweet about Paul Pelosi. 

- Media started running articles against him for sharing that tweet in the first place and calling it fake.

- Musk doubled down saying that the specific tweet was not from the New York Times (calling the New York Times fake therefore).

- People are now arguing in the comment section.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Contrarian

[Contrarian]

Today from what is trending and my readings:

- New Twitter CEO Elon Musk floats charging $8 a month for Twitter verification. 

- Some Celebrities are starting to leave Twitter. Here's a running list posted my NBC which seems not to like Musk that much: 
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/celebrity/twitter-celebrities-leaving-elon-musk-rcna54831

- The Atlantic is warning Musk of a cold shower ahead and how twitter’s new owner faces a difficult regulatory landscape around the world:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/elon-musk-twitter-regulations-legal-battles/671946/

Edited November 1, 2022 by Contrarian

[robosmith]

On 10/30/2022 at 10:45 AM, ironstone said:

Many people are up in arms over Elon Musk buying Twitter and I admit that it's kind of amusing to see all those meltdowns over nothing. I don't hear the same complaints about billionaires like Jeff Bezos and his control of WaPo or Zuckerberg and Facebook. A lot of people have no problem with billionaire George Soros making sure violent criminals get back on the street ASAP.

I'm not on Twitter or Facebook and have no desire to join.

It remains to be seen if Twitter will actually allow conservative speech or just keep censoring it.

You believe inciting the mob attack on the Capitol was "over nothing"?

Trump was not banned from Twitter until AFTER Jan 6th.

Clear violation of the TOS which prohibit illegal incitement of violence.

[ironstone]

4 hours ago, robosmith said:

You believe inciting the mob attack on the Capitol was "over nothing"?

Trump was not banned from Twitter until AFTER Jan 6th.

Clear violation of the TOS which prohibit illegal incitement of violence.

I never said any such thing. I was clearly talking about Elon Musk buying Twitter and the entire left goes full-on looney. They are reacting that way because they are terrified of actual free speech. 

I'm starting to get the feeling that Twitter may not change all that much after all. 

I've asked this before; are there direct Twitter quotes from Trump himself telling people to go to the capitol and engage in violence?

[ironstone]

This is why Twitter may not change much.

Elon Musk Taps Jussie Smollett Hoaxer For Censorship Advice (thefederalist.com)

What on earth is Musk thinking?

[robosmith]

49 minutes ago, ironstone said:

I never said any such thing. I was clearly talking about Elon Musk buying Twitter and the entire left goes full-on looney. They are reacting that way because they are terrified of actual free speech. 

I'm starting to get the feeling that Twitter may not change all that much after all. 

I've asked this before; are there direct Twitter quotes from Trump himself telling people to go to the capitol and engage in violence?

Yes, he told his known to be ARMED CROWD wearing helmets and body armor to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell, or they would not have a country anymore." 

Many in the crowd defended their own actions by saying they thought Trump told them to do it.

Of course the mob boss seldom gives clearer orders than that when ordering crimes be committed.

Of course there is far more evidence the whole thing was planned in advance as a method to overturn the election, which proves their INTENT.

Many Republicans told that story during the Jan 6th hearings IF you were paying attention.

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, ironstone said:

 

What on earth is Musk thinking?

What on earth does anybody who thinks that they know him thinking.

He used to be a leftist, now the left supposedly hates him.

 

He's a joker and a tinkerer that's known...

[ironstone]

23 hours ago, robosmith said:

Yes, he told his known to be ARMED CROWD wearing helmets and body armor to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell, or they would not have a country anymore." 

Many in the crowd defended their own actions by saying they thought Trump told them to do it.

Of course the mob boss seldom gives clearer orders than that when ordering crimes be committed.

Of course there is far more evidence the whole thing was planned in advance as a method to overturn the election, which proves their INTENT.

Many Republicans told that story during the Jan 6th hearings IF you were paying attention.

I think those tweets fall well short of being an incitement to violence.

"Big protest in D.C. on January 6th," he wrote, referring to the day Congress was set to formally certify Joe Biden's victory in the electoral college.

"Be there, will be wild!"

That one is like something akin to what a high school teen would tweet about a house party. Nothing about bringing weapons or burning down federal buildings (the other side did that if you'll recall).

Should he have sent out a tweet like that? No, he shouldn't have done it. It wasn't Bernie Sanders fault that one of his supporters shot Steve Scalise. Bernie can only be fairly criticized for wanting to make the US socialist. The MSM want to make Republicans responsible for any attacks against Democrats while virtually ignoring attacks against conservatives. And they would never seek to blame Democrats for any of those attacks.

I think more people should just tune out Twitter altogether. 

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

I think those tweets fall well short of being an incitement to violence.

"Big protest in D.C. on January 6th," he wrote, referring to the day Congress was set to formally certify Joe Biden's victory in the electoral college.

"Be there, will be wild!"

That one is like something akin to what a high school teen would tweet about a house party. Nothing about bringing weapons or burning down federal buildings (the other side did that if you'll recall).

Should he have sent out a tweet like that? No, he shouldn't have done it. It wasn't Bernie Sanders fault that one of his supporters shot Steve Scalise. Bernie can only be fairly criticized for wanting to make the US socialist. The MSM want to make Republicans responsible for any attacks against Democrats while virtually ignoring attacks against conservatives. And they would never seek to blame Democrats for any of those attacks.

I think more people should just tune out Twitter altogether. 

Trump WAS TUNED OUT of Twitter. BANNED for inciting violence.

And you're completely IGNORING:

Quote

Of course there is far more evidence the whole thing was planned in advance as a method to overturn the election, which proves their INTENT.

Many Republicans told that story during the Jan 6th hearings IF you were paying attention.

The prosecutors are ALSO telling the story at Rhode's TRIAL FOR INSURRECTION.

Oath Keepers and Proud boys are ON TAPE conspiring to STOP the EC count well before the 6th. 

That was WHY Trump invited them to the Capitol ON THE 6th and they ALL KNEW IT.

Do you guys get the news in CANADA?

You can try to nitpick about threads of evidence, but if you actually considered ALL of it, it's OVERWHELMING.

[BeaverFever]

Meh. Musk just appears to be an erratic elitist megalomaniac. The Howard Hughes of our time.
 

I don’t use social media. There’s nothing more annoying than when some co-worker says “I follow (insert “business guru” name here: Musk, Bezos, etc) and use their  ‘3 golden rules  to organize my day (or whatever)”. 

[robosmith]

56 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Meh. Musk just appears to be an erratic elitist megalomaniac. The Howard Hughes of our time.
 

I don’t use social media. There’s nothing more annoying than when some co-worker says “I follow (insert “business guru” name here: Musk, Bezos, etc) and use their  ‘3 golden rules  to organize my day (or whatever)”. 

All online forums are social media.

[BeaverFever]

5 hours ago, robosmith said:

All online forums are social media.

Is it really? It doesn’t feel very social to me considering I’m on here anonymously and  not following or being followed by friends and family b

Oh well then if that’s the case I’m a user of one form of social media but I won’t be posting any selfies here anytime soon, sorry to disappoint!😎

[ironstone]

12 hours ago, robosmith said:

Trump WAS TUNED OUT of Twitter. BANNED for inciting violence.

And you're completely IGNORING:

The prosecutors are ALSO telling the story at Rhode's TRIAL FOR INSURRECTION.

Oath Keepers and Proud boys are ON TAPE conspiring to STOP the EC count well before the 6th. 

That was WHY Trump invited them to the Capitol ON THE 6th and they ALL KNEW IT.

Do you guys get the news in CANADA?

You can try to nitpick about threads of evidence, but if you actually considered ALL of it, it's OVERWHELMING.

On the whole, I think the rhetoric that comes from the left is worse than the right. And you make a big deal out of Trump being banned from Twitter because of his rhetoric. I have to point out that the brutal Iranian leaders are allowed on Twitter. The Iranian regime has put out some unbelievably violent Tweets for the world to see. Undeniably worse things than anything Trump has ever Tweeted. Just ask the Israelis.

Everything that the Iranians have done on Twitter can also be applied to the Taliban, one of the worst countries on earth. They treat their own people with utter brutality and yet, there they are on Twitter.

You can't honestly say Trump is worse than the Ayatollahs and the Taliban.

I can probably get access to all the same news sources that you do, but I choose different sources which I have more faith in. I do get a great sense of what comes out of the MSM compared to my trusted sources and I draw my own conclusions. Your sources don't exactly have a good record for accuracy, and they greatly embellish negative stories about any and all Republicans. 

I can understand why we come to different conclusions about all this. I can't help but think of poor old Whoopi Goldberg responding to Ted Cruz recently when she said she knows nothing about violent Antifa riots. I believe her because she, like most left-wingers, lives in a bubble and is not exposed to any news that contradicts her viewpoint. She is also highly intolerant of other views, also like most left-wingers.

How's this for violent rhetoric?

Iran's supreme leader calls for Israel's destruction in Twitter screed on anti-Israel holiday | Fox News