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Many people on this forum claim to care about veterans but other than going on ad nauseum about how mean the "left" is, I pretty much never see anyone offering ways to actually effect change in the lives of these same veterans they purport to support.

Here's a great way to start. Tomorrow( Friday October 28th) the annual Royal Canadian Legions poppy drive starts,  and they need volunteers.

All monies raised through poppy sales go DIRECTLY to veterans, so even a little effort can help makes a huge difference in a veterans life.

So, either you can hide out online and continue to pretend that all your blustering means anything or you can get out and do something tangible and actually put your money where your mouth is 

I leave it to you 

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 I give money to the cadets at the liquor store

but I don't wear a Poppy, nor do I attend Remembrance Day parades anymore

in terms of supporting veterans, if there is a brother who needs my help, I will come to his aid in the breach

whatever is in my power, I will bring those means to bear upon request or alarm

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1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

 I give money to the cadets at the liquor store

but I don't wear a Poppy, nor do I attend Remembrance Day parades anymore

in terms of supporting veterans, if there is a brother who needs my help, I will come to his aid in the breach

whatever is in my power, I will bring those means to bear upon request or alarm

And what means are those? Anything you can actually quantify?

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55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's not a really great way to motivate people imo. 

I leave it to you to mull over. 

thing is, the Legion has nothing to do with the CF

the Legion is actually a private club

and for my generation of veterans, they've always treated us as outsiders

as a decorated veteran myself, I walk into a Legion hall, and they basically shrug, they couldn't care less

at this point, most people who are members of the Legion haven't even served in the military

last time I went to a Legion, was for my buddy Chappie's wake

but we had to rent the Legion hall just like any civilian would

we had a good time at the wake, but the Legion members, they totally ignored us

Edited by Dougie93
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7 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

 I give money to the cadets at the liquor store

but I don't wear a Poppy, nor do I attend Remembrance Day parades anymore

in terms of supporting veterans, if there is a brother who needs my help, I will come to his aid in the breach

whatever is in my power, I will bring those means to bear upon request or alarm

Remembrance Day is a day to celebrate the sacrifices of our veterans.  I don't think it's particularly political.

My grandfathers served in WWII.  The one I knew was a true Canadian bad@ss, i've never really met anyone like him.  That generation were raised in the depression and then came of age overseas in warfare or praying their brothers & friends & classmates came home.  My grandmother kept a scrapbook of newspaper clippings of the obituaries of boys she knew in her neighborhood and in her school that were killed in the war, she showed it to me when we were cleaning our her house when she was moving into her retirement home.  That really hit home for me.

Even though my grandfather served he refused to take a dime from the Legion, or use his veteran status to get any kind of discounts or freebies.  He served with true honour.  Imagine if our politicians served their country with that kind of integrity?  They won't even put their jobs on the line for this country, let alone their lives.  That said, I don't begrudge anyone that takes those things if they also do it honestly.  I think the vets who see real action and put their lives on the line should be set up for life by our gov.  Treat them like the heroes and martyrs they are as long as they serve with honour.

The recruitment problem we have tells us a lot of things, but the bottom line is that young men and women don't want to serve and defend this country like they used to.  Apparently even some of our vets even turn their backs on this country ; )  This country has failed them and failed you.

Edited by Moonlight Graham
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5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Remembrance Day is a day to celebrate the sacrifices of our veterans.  I don't think it's particularly political.

My grandfathers served in WWII.  The one I knew was a true Canadian bad@ss, i've never really met anyone like him.  That generation were raised in the depression and then came of age overseas in warfare or praying their brothers & friends & classmates came home.  My grandmother kept a scrapbook of newspaper clippings of the obituaries of boys she knew in her neighborhood and in her school that were killed in the war, she showed it to me when we were cleaning our her house when she was moving into her retirement home.  That really hit home for me.

Even though my grandfather served he refused to take a dime from the Legion, or use his veteran status to get any kind of discounts or freebies.  He served with true honour.  Imagine if our politicians served their country with that kind of integrity?  They won't even put their jobs on the line for this country, let alone their lives.  That said, I don't begrudge anyone that takes those things if they also do it honestly.  I think the vets who see real action and put their lives on the line should be set up for life by our gov.  Treat them like the heroes and martyrs they are as long as they serve with honour.

The recruitment problem we have tells us a lot of things, but the bottom line is that young men and women don't want to serve and defend this country like they used to.  Apparently even some of our vets even turn their backs on this country ; )  This country has failed them and failed you.

like I say, I pay my money to the Legion like everybody else

I am told the point is to raise money for veterans and I give those monies

I simply choose not to participate in the ceremonial aspect anymore

the veterans showed up in Ottawa to exercise their right to protest, wearing their decorations

Canada called them "Nazis", invoked the Emergencies Act, and crushed them under jackboots

that's the true face of Canada that I see

so I choose not celebrate that

I will try to help veterans out in any practical way I can

but I don't want to participate in a ceremonial parade with people who would call me a "Nazi"

in terms of Armistice Day ?

remembering the sacrifices of the veterans in the First & Second World Wars ?

I think about that every single day, it shapes my existence, everything I believe in

that is the reason why I chose to serve

why I dreamed of being a Canadian infantryman since I was a little boy

in terms of my brothers who were killed in Afghanistan ?

I never stop thinking about them, those ghosts haunt me at all times

every day is remembrance day; at the going down of the sun and in the morning

Edited by Dougie93
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I give to the Poppy Fund

I support my Legion

I do whatever I can to support all veterans of Canadian Military.

I go to the Remembrance Day Parade in downtown Ottawa every year to pay my respect to memory of those that served in WW 1, WW II.  (well, twice to National Military Cemetery at Beechwood, far and away the most moving of ceremonies).

I also pay my respect to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

I also pay tribute to all those that  honoured Canada by their Military service.

I also pay respect to those serving today.

I acknowledge all who served, not just within my Squadrons. They all served for their own reasons and deserve respect.

 

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8 hours ago, Contrarian said:

 

The way it was explained to me at the very beginning by a member of my community which was here longer than myself:  

"The reason you are here and you can enjoy the opportunities towards success is due to people dying,"

I don't think that is historically accurate

the reality of Armistice Day is that Canada fought for the British Empire

Canada fought for Belgium in Flanders

Canada fought to keep Hong Kong British

Canada fought to defend the Suez Canal in the Mediterranean

Canada fought to defend the British Raj in India

Winston Churchill was in command, and he was fighting to save the Empire

Canada was British and Canada fought for the British Crown

Ottawa was not under any significant threat, the threat was to the King at Buckingham Palace

Kaiser Wilhelm posed no threat to Canada whatsoever

neutral Sweden continued to do business with Nazi Germany

many of the countries Canada is defending now in Europe, were allied to Nazi Germany

the Soviet Union under Stalin was Canada's ally

the actual reason you enjoy the opportunities that you do, has little to do with Canada

it is the United States of America which protects & sustains you, not Canada nor Britain

technically, America was Canada's sworn enemy

Americans killed & died to invade & subjugate Canada, three times

the opportunities in actual fact flow, not from war, but from the American free market economy

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2 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

That personal story is really an immigrant teaching another immigrant about respecting authority which is very important for people that are starting in a new place.

I invite the immigrants to challenge Canadian authority

as a Canadian soldier, I served so that you would have the freedom to do so

I personally have little respect for Canadian authority, I find it to be corrupt, inept & idiotic

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17 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

The other route is to listen to communist agitators

interesting you mention that

because the historical reality of Armistice Day in Canada was in fact the rise of Bolshevism in Canada

the country was so devastated by the catastrophe of the First World War, that it flirted with revolution

there were no cheering crowds waiting for the victorious Canadian Corps upon their return

nobody showed up to welcome them home in 1918

in fact, the Canadian press the castigated the commander, Arthur Currie, as a criminal

there were riots in the streets, Socialists calling for the overthrow of the Crown

and then the government cracked down with fearsome repression during the Winnipeg General Strike of 1919

Edited by Dougie93
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5 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

In my view when you are in new territory (new country) there is no time for flaws, only for positive things so day to day life can be assured economically.

your day to day economic life will be destroyed by the corrupt, inept, idiotic governance

stand and fight, save yourself from the destruction of the your adopted land by its own government

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38 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

 people that have grudges with their country due to personal stories which I don't think it helps. 

do you know who Louis Riel was ?

do you know William Lyon MacKenzie ?

Louis-Joseph Papineau ?

Robert Gourlay ?

Thomas D'arcy McGee ?

Chief Dan George ?

Rene Levesque ?

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1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

interesting you mention that

because the historical reality of Armistice Day in Canada was in fact the rise of Bolshevism in Canada

the country was so devastated by the catastrophe of the First World War, that it flirted with revolution

there were no cheering crowds waiting for the victorious Canadian Corps upon their return

nobody showed up to welcome them home in 1918

in fact, the Canadian press the castigated the commander, Arthur Currie, as a criminal

there were riots in the streets, Socialists calling for the overthrow of the Crown

and then the government cracked down with fearsome repression during the Winnipeg General Strike of 1919

WTF are you talking about?  More propaganda and lies you seditious weasel, how ironic.  If you're going to preach history you better know wtf you're talking about:

"When the war ended on November 11, 1918, a half holiday was declared. Every
town held giant ‘Welcome Home’ celebrations for each batch of returning
soldiers. ‘Welcome Home’ funds were collected for returning soldiers; local
branches of the Great War Veteran’s Association were organized. In spite of the
general celebrations, memories endured of those who had lost their lives."

https://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/hrb/internal_reports/pdfs/war_memorials_ww1_stories.pdf

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1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't think that is historically accurate

the reality of Armistice Day is that Canada fought for the British Empire

Canada fought for Belgium in Flanders

Canada fought to keep Hong Kong British

Canada fought to defend the Suez Canal in the Mediterranean

Canada fought to defend the British Raj in India

Winston Churchill was in command, and he was fighting to save the Empire

Canada was British and Canada fought for the British Crown

Ottawa was not under any significant threat, the threat was to the King at Buckingham Palace

Kaiser Wilhelm posed no threat to Canada whatsoever

neutral Sweden continued to do business with Nazi Germany

many of the countries Canada is defending now in Europe, were allied to Nazi Germany

the Soviet Union under Stalin was Canada's ally

the actual reason you enjoy the opportunities that you do, has little to do with Canada

it is the United States of America which protects & sustains you, not Canada nor Britain

technically, America was Canada's sworn enemy

Americans killed & died to invade & subjugate Canada, three times

the opportunities in actual fact flow, not from war, but from the American free market economy

Yes we were British in WWI.  A British declaration of war automatically meant Canada was at war.  Canada didn't like this, so after WWI many policies were made independent of Britain. 

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/statute-of-westminster

Quote

Canada began to assert its independence in foreign policy in the early 1920s. In 1922, Prime Minister  William Lyon Mackenzie King refused to help British occupation forces in Turkey without first getting the approval of Parliament. (See Chanak Affair.) In 1923, Canada signed a fisheries treaty with the United States without British involvement. (See Halibut Treaty.) In 1926, Canada established an embassy in Washington, DC. Vincent Massey was named its first Canadian minister (ambassador). This made him Canada’s first ever diplomatic envoy posted to a foreign capital.

The Statute of Westminster, 1931 was signed, which meant, among other things, Canada would now declare war on its own and was constitutionally equal with Britain.  Canada declared war on Nazi Germany independently and after Britain did, but nonetheless helped out their allies against a force that also threatened them.  German U-boats sunk many Canadian naval vessels in the Atlantic and even close to Canada's eastern coastline.

Canadian soldiers defended Canada's national security in WWII, they defended Canada before and since.  Obviously the US also provides protection but don't dare lessen and dishonour Canadian sacrifices and patriotism.  Their patriotism literally helped build the country you want to tear apart.  You're just a holdover British nationalist/loyalist that has their knickers in a knot and wants anglo-Canada to seperate so you can turn them into something like Australia was back in the day.  If you're loyal to Britain then move to Britain.  To drag this crap into a Remembrance Day thread is revolting.  You must work for the Chinese or Russian government or something. ?

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27 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

WTF are you talking about?  More propaganda and lies you seditious weasel, how ironic.  If you're going to preach history you better know wtf you're talking about:

"When the war ended on November 11, 1918, a half holiday was declared. Every
town held giant ‘Welcome Home’ celebrations for each batch of returning
soldiers. ‘Welcome Home’ funds were collected for returning soldiers; local
branches of the Great War Veteran’s Association were organized. In spite of the
general celebrations, memories endured of those who had lost their lives."

https://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/hrb/internal_reports/pdfs/war_memorials_ww1_stories.pdf

11 November 1918 is the day fighting ceased on the Western Front

the Canadian troops did not arrive home until the summer of 1919

by which point, Canada was in a state of civil unrest, following the Winnipeg General Strike in May of 1919

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2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

11 November 1918 is the day fighting ceased on the Western Front

the Canadian troops did not arrive home until the summer of 1919

by which point, Canada was in a state of civil unrest, following the Winnipeg General Strike in May of 1919

I didn't challenge that (yet).

You're trying to paint a narrative that logistical problems delaying the return of soldiers meant people didn't celebrate their return.  Get effed dude.  If your child, spouse, or sibling came home alive from a meatgrinder you're going to be happy.

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Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

I didn't challenge that (yet).

You're trying to paint a narrative that logistical problems delaying the return of soldiers meant people didn't celebrate their return.  Get effed dude.  If your child, spouse, or sibling came home alive from a meatgrinder you're going to be happy.

none the less, when the 48th Highlanders returned from the Western Front

there was nobody to greet them when they arrived

when they pulled into Union Station in Toronto in 1919, it was empty

they marched through the empty streets of Toronto to the University Avenue Armoury

Remembrance Day was not invented until 1931

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On 10/27/2022 at 6:52 PM, SkyHigh said:

 

All monies raised through poppy sales go DIRECTLY to veterans, so even a little effort can help makes a huge difference in a veterans life.

 

It was not always like this the poppy fund was very restrictive on what it could be used for, directly helping vets was not one of them, 10 years ago things started to change for the better, where today it does help all veterans if they seek assistance, many do not know of the service. But then again "Veterans" use to mean soldiers from WWI, WWI, Korea, in fact some of the benefits these vets have been taken away from today's vets, like long term care, after the last Korean vet passes all existing long-term homes will be turned over to their provincial governments and opened to all Canadians. there are other benefits as well you can goggle that shit. 

Want to make a huge difference find one of these long-term homes and go down there and have a talk to each vet, here in Fredericton NB there is just a complex just of the Cities Hospital. They would love the company and you may even get a war story or two. Each vets' room has their service record and medals posted outside of each room. I've done this trip myself several times, it is heart breaking to see just how we warehouse these great warriors waiting for them to die... put a smile on their faces, all it takes is to listen. And it does not have to be on Nov 11, do it today.

Todays vets can't do this, have a place where all around them are people who understand what they went through what they are going through every night, and the greatest asset would be just have someone to talk to that can relate.  My wife is my best friend but i cannot talk to her about what i saw or did in combat. talking about those experiences are methods of healing the brain that has been taken away from todays vets. 

Want to help vets learn about what we do for Canadians 365 days of the year around the clock. There is a military person stand guard for each Canadian. 

Poppy Trust Funds (legion.ca)

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18 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Remembrance Day is a day to celebrate the sacrifices of our veterans.  I don't think it's particularly political.

My grandfathers served in WWII.  The one I knew was a true Canadian bad@ss, i've never really met anyone like him.  That generation were raised in the depression and then came of age overseas in warfare or praying their brothers & friends & classmates came home.  My grandmother kept a scrapbook of newspaper clippings of the obituaries of boys she knew in her neighborhood and in her school that were killed in the war, she showed it to me when we were cleaning our her house when she was moving into her retirement home.  That really hit home for me.

Even though my grandfather served he refused to take a dime from the Legion, or use his veteran status to get any kind of discounts or freebies.  He served with true honour.  Imagine if our politicians served their country with that kind of integrity?  They won't even put their jobs on the line for this country, let alone their lives.  That said, I don't begrudge anyone that takes those things if they also do it honestly.  I think the vets who see real action and put their lives on the line should be set up for life by our gov.  Treat them like the heroes and martyrs they are as long as they serve with honour.

The recruitment problem we have tells us a lot of things, but the bottom line is that young men and women don't want to serve and defend this country like they used to.  Apparently even some of our vets even turn their backs on this country ; )  This country has failed them and failed you.

I think every returning soldier had a different experience, and i can't talk about what or how those soldiers experienced their return.

Every one of my returns from Afghanistan was different, my first tour, people were lined up on the streets we left at 2 am arrived in Trenton around 6 am and every town every city had people lined up, with signs of encouragement...

When we returned 7 months latter Canada had changed, no longer were the people lining the streets, we came home to only family and a few friends to welcome us home, what some came home to where broken homes, empty homes family had moved and taken everything, including the bank accounts, (maybe 1 in every 10 marriages )all of us were still adjusting just days before i was neck deep in combat, living out of the back of a LAV covered in sand flees, my last shower was 2 and a half weeks before heading back to Kanadar.

now I'm holding my girls in my arms, not even knowing who they were really, next day i take them down to the mall to buy them whatever they wanted, a car cuts me off along the way, and for minutes I'm flash back to Afghanistan, pulling this guy out of his car through his window, I'm panicking becasue i can't find  my pistol on my leg, my wife is yelling my name , bringing me back from the flash back, i apologize to the young kid, i slowly walk back to my truck people are just staring at me... both my girls are crying, my wife is stilling yelling... and i think welcome back to Canada MF.

After that they made us stay for 3 to 4 days in a holiday resort to cool off, decompress, they called it. with no Achol the entire time, they let us loss at the bars for 3 days . 6 beers in I'm shit faced, fighting some Russian mob guy and getting the crap beat out of me. something else to explain to my wife where all the bruises came from.    

My third tour, my wife told me at the start "no more or we won't be here when you get back. 5 years later she gives me the same talk only this time it is about my mental health problems... get help or we are leaving...It was the hardest thing I've ever done, get help...become one of the weak, I'm still happily married to the same women, my mental health is under control, but not everyone i knew could say the same thing, I've been to well over 30 funerals of close friends over the last 10 years they just could no longer cope... which is why vets need each other to have someone to talk to, it saves lives...

They did not receive the help they needed becasue our government played politics with their lives and benefits. And yes, i do hold Canada responsible for all those lives, for not doing anything about it. and yes i am one of those jaded vets. I would do anything for any of my regimental comrades, at a drop of a hat. and i would do it all again just not for country, but for them. I'm not the only vet that feels that way, there is plenty more.

recruiting problems are stemming from the question, why would i risk everything including my life for a nation who will not return the same commitment, who will drop you off on some corner after they are done with you, kick you in the ass, and mumble later... expect you to survive in equipment 30 years old or more, or not enough of it to equip each man...kind of like the same problems the Russians have now except not as extreme. want recruits show some commitment. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it's harder for the Regular Force brothers, because they are not centralized

you can't just jump in your car and drive to Sassy's to meet up with the boys

in a Militia regiment, it's better, everybody is from the same town

so we can get together regularly, within a couple hours drive of each other

or we can go to the Mess at the Armoury

I don't need to go to a Legion hall, in fact, I don't know anybody in the Legion

Dougie, i use to be one of those guys that would roll his eyes when someone said they were form a militia unit. My first tour cured all of that, 99 % of them were soldiers, and could pass any RCR muster. and when we returned i never gave them much thought other than they had proven themselves in combat and were good people. It was not until i went to a funeral of one of those militia guys who had taken their lives, i found out from the family the military had used them up and thrown them out, no benefits, no retraining programs, and most of the benefits regular force guys had they were not entitled to.

I used all my contacts to see if a change could be made, these guys risked everything and got nothing in return. Not even a funeral paid by DND, that was paid from old company members giving up a few dollars each... sad really... i did not attend the funeral in uniform i was embarrassed and pissed off. I had his medals corked mounted and placed under his name on his tombstone in epoxy... 

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