Fascist, The new F*** you when loosing an argument

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

Definition of fascism

 

1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascistic) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control early instances of army fascism and brutality— J. W. Aldridge

 

Above is copied from the first link of the Google search "definition of fascism", now to me that says this;

 

"Fascism quick and dirty definition: my way or your dead" 

 

I do not think ANYONE on this sight is a fascist, intolerant of opposing views and opinions maybe, but not a fascist. Has this word become the go to insult when loosing or feeling like you are loosing an argument. We all are so quick to go to this when faced with a someone who feels strongly in their beliefs. I challenge each of to stop this. I do not think I have in post said that you are not entitled to your beliefs or opinions; and if I have I fully and repentantly apologize for that. Now even I have called someone's opinion silly and many have called other opinions stupid, sadly some including me have lost our cool and called the person stupid. 

 

Not having a college degree does not equal stupid, it simply means that other people learned from the school of hard knocks while you got to sit in a classroom and be lectured at. 

 

That being said if I called you stupid I was upset and did not step away and take a breath before typing. Shame on me. That is a me problem as an adult should be responsible enough to engage intelligent debate with out muck raking. Sorry I am human, still working on that whole let there be light thing. 

I can flick the light switch but I don't think that counts. lol

 

Anyway, Do you really think people whose views oppose yours are fascist? If so, why? When did not agreeing on something begin to mean one of the other was a fascist?

[Dougie93]

people also conflate Fascism as being the merger of state & corporate into a single entity

based on the Mussolini speech

but that wasn't Mussolini's definition of Fascism

the merger of public & private into a unitary state is what Mussolini called "Totalitario"

Fascism is Totalitarian, but Totalitarianism is not be all & end all of Fascism

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

then there is the messianic Utopian aspect which mirrors Communism1

Fascists do not believe that they are evil2, they too believe that they are saving the world.

1.Clarify, are you saying Fascism and Communism are both political ideals, if so, wrong communism is a economic philosophy, while fascism is a political philosophy It would be more correct to say fascism mirrors totalitarianism. 

2. Of course they don't know one believes they are evil except very few psycho- (or is it socio-) paths that admit it and revel in it. This statement is kind of silly pretty much every movement or political belief feels the exact same way. 

Why are we talking about what fascism is I was asking why we use in this manner. 

"I disagree with what you are saying so you are a fascist."

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

13 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

he would not be allowing the Canadian Forces to collapse in the name of "feminism"

I don't know anything about Trudeau so I will leave that for someone who is informed.

This though, I disagree with some extreme feminist have even by other women been told to tone it down because their are sounding fascist, and to say the women can't be fascist is kind of misogynistic; women are just as capable of being assholes as men are.

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

1.Clarify, are you saying Fascism and Communism are both political ideals, if so, wrong communism is a economic philosophy, while fascism is a political philosophy It would be more correct to say fascism mirrors totalitarianism. 

2. Of course they don't know one believes they are evil except very few psycho- (or is it socio-) paths that admit it and revel in it. This statement is kind of silly pretty much every movement or political belief feels the exact same way. 

Why are we talking about what fascism is I was asking why we use in this manner. 

"I disagree with what you are saying so you are a fascist."

I reject that either Fascism or Communism is about economics

Communism is a perfectly egalitarian post scarcity Utopia

so Communism is the complete elimination of economics

Fascism is  also a Post Scarcity Utopia, except perfectly un-egalitarian

as to the follow up, you opened the thread with the definition of Fascism, hence why I was discussing it

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

people also conflate Fascism as being the merger of state & corporate into a single entity

based on the Mussolini speech

but that wasn't Mussolini's definition of Fascism

the merger of public & private into a unitary state is what Mussolini called "Totalitario"

Fascism is Totalitarian, but Totalitarianism is not be all & end all of Fascism

Actually to me, and I am not familiar with the speech mentioned here, I did not really focus on Italy when studying WW2, it sounds like he is trying to introduce a political ideal and a economic philosophy, while naming the economic philosophy about a different type of political philosophy. I could be wrong here but I thought totalitarian and  totalitarianism. Were dictatorial regimes like the USSR (which is VERY different than Russia) and China. And that it described that type of government not their economics which would be communist. 

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

This though, I disagree with some extreme feminist have even by other women been told to tone it down because their are sounding fascist, and to say the women can't be fascist is kind of misogynistic; women are just as capable of being assholes as men are.

I don't view Fascism is simply being belligerent

in the Fascist ideology however, women are totally subservient to the masculine state

their primary role therein being to birth babies for the war effort

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Actually to me, and I am not familiar with the speech mentioned here, I did not really focus on Italy when studying WW2, it sounds like he is trying to introduce a political ideal and a economic philosophy, while naming the economic philosophy about a different type of political philosophy. I could be wrong here but I thought totalitarian and  totalitarianism. Were dictatorial regimes like the USSR (which is VERY different than Russia) and China. And that it described that type of government not their economics which would be communist. 

Mussolini described "Totalitario" as "nothing outside of the state"

to wit, you don't have a private life outside the control of the state

it's not an economic theory, as there is no theory of wealth transfer therein

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't view Fascism is simply being belligerent

in the Fascist ideology however, women are totally subservient to the masculine state

their primary role therein being to birth babies for the war effort

No where in that statement do you say that they are incapable of believing the ideals of fascism.

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I reject that either Fascism or Communism is about economics

Well I hate to break you heart but I am afraid communism is in fact all about economics and not policy, Sen. McCarthy (raging nutter) cause that misconception and Stalin and his cronies did not help. Because of the USSR (VERY VERY different from Russia) Everyone has this misconstrued Idea about communism. 

Which works in small doses. 

For example: in a small village in the Artic or some place equally harsh or isolated, communism works, If everyone does not pull their weight do their share and EQUALLY share all goods and services with one another. They all die. The problem come in when the village reaches the size that greed can become a factor, then communism like socialism falls apart because they do not factor in greed. 

Fascism is a political philosophy and a rather arrogant and restrictive one at that. It is a harsh dictatorship where the more modern definition of the term "political prisoner" was born. I think.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

And to clarify I was asking in the topic why everyone not just in this forum seems to go to the "You're a Fascist" card when faced with someone that is strong in their beliefs. Not what Fascism mean. I put the definition there to show what exactly we were calling each other. To see if people actually thought the other person was a fascist simply because their political beliefs were contrary to theirs.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

No where in that statement do you say that they are incapable of believing the ideals of fascism.

Well I hate to break you heart but I am afraid communism is in fact all about economics and not policy, Sen. McCarthy (raging nutter) cause that misconception and Stalin and his cronies did not help. Because of the USSR (VERY VERY different from Russia) Everyone has this misconstrued Idea about communism. 

Which works in small doses. 

For example: in a small village in the Artic or some place equally harsh or isolated, communism works, If everyone does not pull their weight do their share and EQUALLY share all goods and services with one another. They all die. The problem come in when the village reaches the size that greed can become a factor, then communism like socialism falls apart because they do not factor in greed. 

Fascism is a political philosophy and a rather arrogant and restrictive one at that. It is a harsh dictatorship where the more modern definition of the term "political prisoner" was born. I think.

I didn't say women could not be Fascists

the Fascist state however worships the masculine, women are subordinated to it therein

women who are Fascists seek to be subordinated, Magda Goebbels being the most glaring example

since we disagree fundamentally as to the nature of Communism, we are at an impasse

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

And to clarify I was asking in the topic why everyone not just in this forum seems to go to the "You're a Fascist" card when faced with someone that is strong in their beliefs. Not what Fascism mean. I put the definition there to show what exactly we were calling each other. To see if people actually thought the other person was a fascist simply because their political beliefs were contrary to theirs.

again, you opened the thread with the definition, making it fair game to discuss within the topic

but furthermore, the answer as to why people play the "You're a Fascist" card,

is that they don't understand what it is, they mean something else when they invoke "Fascist"

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

Turns out we are both wrong it is both.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism

[Dougie93]

Just now, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Turns out we are both wrong it is both.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism

no, based on that definition, I am right

the elimination of private property itself is the elimination of economics itself

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

again, you opened the thread with the definition, making it fair game to discuss within the topic

but furthermore, the answer as to why people play the "You're a Fascist" card,

is that they don't understand what it is, they mean something else when they invoke "Fascist"

Fair enough, that is the full content of what I posted though not the intent. Fire away.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Fair enough, that is the full content of what I posted though not the intent. Fire away.

I'm not trying to jack your thread

I simply see the definition as central to the problem which you invoke

Fascism is something very specific, and very Latin, as In Roman

thus people will invoke it willy nilly without context, as a general pejorative, incorrectly

 

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

no, based on that definition, I am right

the elimination of private property itself is the elimination of economics itself

Well that is your interpretation of that article I disagree with your assessment. I always thought it was more about economics that policy turns out it is about both. Just because everything is communal does not equal no economy, goods are still produced services are still traded. The difference is that the community owns everything and gets all the profits instead of an individual. (Capitalism) You being right about it also being about policy does not make it not about economics unless you want to ignore part of the ideology.  

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm not trying to jack your thread

I simply see the definition as central to the problem which you invoke

Fascism is something very specific, and very Latin, as In Roman

thus people will invoke it willy nilly without context, as a general pejorative, incorrectly

 

I did not say you were, I was just agreeing that Yes that is in fact what I posted and therefore you are correct that I entered it into the convo therefore it is fair game. 

Or more simply

You are right that is what I posted my bad.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Jedi_Master_Tallyn

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Well that is your interpretation of that article I disagree with your assessment. I always thought it was more about economics that policy turns out it is about both. Just because everything is communal does not equal no economy, goods are still produced services are still traded. The difference is that the community owns everything and gets all the profits instead of an individual. (Capitalism) You being right about it also being about policy does not make it not about economics unless you want to ignore part of the ideology.  

an argument is about proof

since neither of us is likely to prove our definition, I'll simply move on to the next point

 

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

I did not say you were, I was just agreeing that Yes that is in fact what I posted and therefore you are correct that I entered it into the convo therefore it is fair game. 

Or more simply

You are right that is what I posted my bad.

I will endeavour to focus on the aspect that you intended then

again tho, my answer comes back to the definition

even the most extreme form of Fascism, Nazi Germany, was in fact Romantic

Adolf Hitler's Germania was just as much an attempt to rebirth the Roman Empire

Germania itself being a Roman creation

German is not even a race

just a language group, which the Romans invoked as being the "Germans"

Edited October 19, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

 

2. Of course they don't know one believes they are evil except very few psycho- (or is it socio-) paths that admit it and revel in it. This statement is kind of silly pretty much every movement or political belief feels the exact same way. 

 

point being tho, Fascists do not take being called a Fascist as an insult

they are loud & proud

you basically just called them Caesar, and they will agree with you whole heartedly

if someone is insulted by being called a Fascist, or at all concerned that it is a smear,

they are definitely not a Fascist

again, from the lyrics of the song Power Levels

the Fascists "rep the Fasch"

"f**k it, mask off"

"reveal my power levels"

calling a Fascist a Fascist, is a compliment to them

Edited October 19, 2022 by Dougie93

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I will endeavour to focus on the aspect that you intended then

again tho, my answer comes back to the definition

even the most extreme form of Fascism, Nazi Germany, was in fact Romantic

Adolf Hitler's Germania was just as much an attempt to rebirth the Roman Empire

Germania itself being a Roman creation

German is not even a race

just a language group, which the Romans invoked as being the "Germans"

 The number of governments that can trace themselves back to the Roman empire and the way it was run over its VAST several thousand year history is mind boggling. So calling fascism Roman is like calling Cro-Magnon Man Grandpa. While you are in fact most probably his descendant it is an over simplification of the truth of you heritage. I am trying very hard to think of a government that can not trace its roots to some era of the Roman Empire, and can not save the Asian ones that had no contact, yet an argument could be made about mirror governments. So while you are right it is a very general statement and designed to get reactionary's to well react. Not false but not totally true even and just true enough that you can argue the point with facts. So lets leave that one alone.

 

 The German French Spanish Greek and several other languages are rooted in Latin including English and all it variations. This is a fact most learn in middle school so ummm yup your are right.  

 As for the Germans not being a race, well the world is not ready for that one yet. Even though 10th grade Biology proves you right. The MSM and our political leaders are not ready to end racism yet because it is too powerful a weapon to point at their political rivals and say "He/She is a racist" and boom political career over whether the allegations are true or not. The reactionary public makes it impossible to be a lets wait and see if that is true or not type of person. 

So yeah all true statement just some are abit to general some are too forward and some are well old news

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

point being tho, Fascists do not take being called a Fascist as an insult

they are loud & proud

you basically just called them Caesar, and they will agree with you whole heartedly

if someone is insulted by being called a Fascist, or at all concerned that it is a smear,

they are definitely not a Fascist

again, from the lyrics of the song Power Levels

the Fascists "rep the Fasch"

"f**k it, mask off"

"reveal my power levels"

calling a Fascist a Fascist, is a compliment to them

Right but we aim that taunt at everyone just to win arguments. Why? To me it is close to try to win a argument with a person of color by dropping a racial slur. 

It is stupid mean spirited and designed to get your opponent upset and on their back foot and get their emotions high so they can not think clearly and a sign that you are loosing to argument or you cool and you need to step away a moment and return with a clearer head. Why as adults can we not do that? and instead its "You're a Fascist!" 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Right but we aim that taunt at everyone just to win arguments. Why? To me it is close to try to win a argument with a person of color by dropping a racial slur.

the purpose of an argument is to prove something

without a clear set of accepted rules therein, which the internet does not have, it is impossible to win an argument

thus almost all conflict on social media degenerates into ad hominem

as you just said to me : "old news"

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the purpose of an argument is to prove something

without a clear set of accepted rules therein, which the internet does not have, it is impossible to win an argument

thus almost all conflict on social media degenerates into ad hominem

as you just said to me : "old news"

The old news thing was about the language statement nothing else, and to answer the no rules things. This forum has rules society has rules it is called common curtesy and common sense.........

 

 

I just answered my own question didn't I?