August1991 Posted October 10, 2022 Report Share Posted October 10, 2022 I favour the right of an individual to die in peace. I see the difference between a State choosing death, and an individual choosing to die. I even give the right to a mother to kill her child up to birth. === We tell soldiers/police to kill others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2022 If someone like Bernardo asks for death - what do we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 10, 2022 Report Share Posted October 10, 2022 15 hours ago, August1991 said: If someone like Bernardo asks for death - what do we do? If he is terminally ill, let him. Otherwise, no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) On 10/9/2022 at 7:16 PM, August1991 said: I favour the right of an individual to die in peace. I see the difference between a State choosing death, and an individual choosing to die. I even give the right to a mother to kill her child up to birth. === We tell soldiers/police to kill others. There is no right to take life with the exception of the police in certain circumstances, capital punishment for murder, and in defence of one's country. The Bible which is inspired by God says thou shalt not kill. That refers to killing outside what I listed. That means suicide or killing another person as in assisted suicide are wrong. Since God recognizes an unborn baby as a person in the Bible, that too would be prohibited by the command thou shalt not kill. The medical system has all kinds of drugs these days to relieve the pain of individuals suffering in pain. Regardless of that, it is still wrong to take a life. The Bible which some don't believe was inspired by God and should not be ignored on this issue. It says our bodies belong to God who created us in his image. Therefore, we need to respect the sanctity of life and that means no killing or suicide. Canada is an outlier on the subject. Why Canada has deteriorated to this level I am not sure. But it is tragic and will be very tragic for countless people and their loved ones who choose to do this. I would suggest everyone needs to study the gospels and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. He will set one free from wrong thinking and put one on the right path. That is the only way. Edited October 11, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 2:12 PM, Aristides said: If he is terminally ill, let him. Otherwise, no. Define terminally ill. If someone like Bernardo wants to die, why should we as a society pay to maintain his life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 10:24 PM, blackbird said: There is no right to take life with the exception of the police in certain circumstances, capital punishment for murder, and in defence of one's country. The Bible which is inspired by God says thou shalt not kill. ..... While I respect your belief in the Bible, I have less respect for the Koran. I have no respect for anyone's belief in Global Warming (or whatever people are currently signaling without cost). ==== The King James Version of the Old Testament, Jewish, says: "Thou shalt not kill." And you - blackbird - interpret this to mean that the police, capital punishment..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, August1991 said: While I respect your belief in the Bible, I have less respect for the Koran. I have no respect for anyone's belief in Global Warming (or whatever people are currently signaling without cost). ==== The King James Version of the Old Testament, Jewish, says: "Thou shalt not kill." And you - blackbird - interpret this to mean that the police, capital punishment..... " 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." Romans 13:3-4 KJV Then back to the Old Testament, "6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Genesis 9:6 KJV That covers capital punishment for murderers. From Romans 13 we learn that God has given the authorities the right to bear the sword against evil doers. But by law the police can only use their guns to defend themselves or apprehend dangerous criminals. This is in accordance with Romans 13. I see self defence to protect one's life from evil doers as proper and in accord with the spirit of these verses. Often one verse in the Bible such as "thou shalt not kill" must be understood in light of the whole Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) On 10/11/2022 at 11:19 PM, blackbird said: " 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." Romans 13:3-4 KJV Then back to the Old Testament, "6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Genesis 9:6 KJV That covers capital punishment for murderers. From Romans 13 we learn that God has given the authorities the right to bear the sword against evil doers. But by law the police can only use their guns to defend themselves or apprehend dangerous criminals. This is in accordance with Romans 13. I see self defence to protect one's life from evil doers as proper and in accord with the spirit of these verses. Often one verse in the Bible such as "thou shalt not kill" must be understood in light of the whole Bible. You say that the bible condones capital punishment for murder. Doesn’t the bible say that capital punishment can be used a lot more than just murder? Being gay carried a death penalty…. Being a witch carried a death penalty… worshipping other gods…. the list is pretty long. If your excuse will be “those laws from the Old Testament don’t apply”, then you’ll have to explain why the one you like (murder) does apply, while all the others do not. Edited October 13, 2022 by TreeBeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: You say that the bible condones capital punishment for murder. Doesn’t the bible say that capital punishment can be used a lot more than just murder? Being gay carried a death penalty…. Being a witch carried a death penalty… worshipping other gods…. the list is pretty long. If your excuse will be “those laws from the Old Testament don’t apply”, then you’ll have to explain why the one you like (murder) does apply, while all the others do not. Certain Old Testament commands or regulations only applied to Israel at that time in history and don't apply to Christians in the church age during the past 2,000 years. Things like the death penalty for being gay or being a witch don't apply today. I would doubt the death penalty can be used for anything other than murder according to the Bible. The sanctity of life is biblical. Other things that are restated in one way or another in the New Testament epistles which are directed to the church apply today. Genesis 9:6 (the death penalty for murder) seems to be supported by Romans 13 in the New Testament which says authorities bear the sword not in vain for evil doers. Since murderers have taken a human life, it seems to me that the death penalty would be a punishment valid for all ages. How else does one stop a murderer from repeating that kind of crime and how can society be protected? The alternative would be to lock him up and have the taxpayers pay perhaps $100,000 per year or more to support him. Then if he is imprisoned, there is no guarantee that he will not try to kill a guard or another prisoner or escape. With weak soft-on-crime governments, he could be released into society. This has already proven to be deadly as some of them have gone on to commit murder again. The idea that the rehabilitation of a murderer should take precedence over the protection of society is bizarre but that is a liberal left ideology which has resulted in disastrous consequences. It is not even clear that a murderer can be rehabilitated, but the attempt to do that should not come at the risk or expense of society. Edited October 13, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 On 10/11/2022 at 9:19 PM, August1991 said: Define terminally ill. If someone like Bernardo wants to die, why should we as a society pay to maintain his life? Has an illness that will kill him in the near future. He sees death as preferable to prison. Screw him, he can rot in jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: You say that the bible condones capital punishment for murder. Doesn’t the bible say that capital punishment can be used a lot more than just murder? Being gay carried a death penalty…. Being a witch carried a death penalty… worshipping other gods…. the list is pretty long. If your excuse will be “those laws from the Old Testament don’t apply”, then you’ll have to explain why the one you like (murder) does apply, while all the others do not. Another thing I noticed is that the command in Genesis 9:6 (capital punishment for murder) was given to all mankind at the time in biblical history when human government began. This was before Israel was created or began through Abraham in Genesis ch12. This would seem to mean God gave this punishment to human government in general as a kind of universal punishment. This is considered the third dispensation called Human Government according to dispensational theology or interpretation of the Bible. We are still living under human governments. Edited October 13, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Aristides said: Has an illness that will kill him in the near future. He sees death as preferable to prison. Screw him, he can rot in jail. Aristides, We in Canada - in the wacky post-Catholic, Scandinavian Lutheran West - are living in a society where: -we forbid prisoners from killing themselves -we allow individuals to kill themselves -we order soldiers to kill foreigners -we severely restrict police killing people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 14, 2022 Report Share Posted October 14, 2022 23 minutes ago, August1991 said: Aristides, We in Canada - in the wacky post-Catholic, Scandinavian Lutheran West - are living in a society where: -we forbid prisoners from killing themselves -we allow individuals to kill themselves -we order soldiers to kill foreigners -we severely restrict police killing people People in jail don't get to set the conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Aristides said: People in jail don't get to set the conditions. Yet, at taxpayer expense, we keep them alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 14, 2022 Report Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, August1991 said: Yet, at taxpayer expense, we keep them alive. Yup, he isn't there to be humoured. If we want convicted killers to die, be honest about it and execute them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Aristides said: Yup, he isn't there to be humoured. If we want convicted killers to die, be honest about it and execute them. Aristides, I don't have a perfect response to your post now - complex moral questions. IMHO, the right to die should somehow make the world a better place. ==== Imagine the mathematics of such a universe where things last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 11:30 AM, blackbird said: I would doubt the death penalty can be used for anything other than murder according to the Bible. Who tells you which ones to keep and which ones to throw out? Do you believe your church leader? If your church leader told you that God wants gays to die as punishment, like in the bible, would you believe him? If he told you…. On 10/13/2022 at 11:30 AM, blackbird said: The sanctity of life is biblical. Then why did God kill, or order the death, of so many children? 1 Samuel 15 2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts: ‘I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he lay in wait for him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Who tells you which ones to keep and which ones to throw out? Do you believe your church leader? If your church leader told you that God wants gays to die as punishment, like in the bible, would you believe him? If he told you…. Then why did God kill, or order the death, of so many children? 1 Samuel 15 2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts: ‘I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he lay in wait for him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’” "Verse 1 Samuel 15:3. Slay both man and woman — Nothing could justify such an exterminating decree but the absolute authority of God. This was given: all the reasons of it we do not know; but this we know well, The Judge of all the earth doth right. This war was not for plunder, for God commanded that all the property as well as all the people should be destroyed." 1 Samuel 15:3 - Verse-by-Verse Bible Commentary - StudyLight.org I don't follow a church leader or take my beliefs from one. The Bible is primary. As I told you before, the Old Testament commands were only meant for Israel several thousand years ago and do not apply to the church today, except for nine of the ten commandments. Church leaders do not want gays to die as punishment. Edited October 17, 2022 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: Nothing could justify such an exterminating decree but the absolute authority of God. Absolutely! In the story, he’s the man and whatever he says, no matter how evil, is what needs to happen. But, then the bible doesn’t really sanctify life then, does it? 8 minutes ago, blackbird said: As I told you before, the Old Testament commands were only meant for Israel several thousand years ago and do not apply to the church today, except for nine of the ten commandments. It was only for Israelites, except when it isn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Absolutely! In the story, he’s the man and whatever he says, no matter how evil, is what needs to happen. But, then the bible doesn’t really sanctify life then, does it? It was only for Israelites, except when it isn’t. No, God is not "the man". You have no concept of God. God is absolutely holy and can do no evil. God is omnipotent and evil is anti-God by definition. Unfortunately you don't have the slightest idea of what the term God means. That is a Devilish thing and is why Satan was kicked out of heaven. Satan wanted to be God himself. That is what Satan's rebellion in the world is all about. Why do you want to follow in the footsteps of Satan and oppose God? It makes no sense and is suicidal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, blackbird said: Why do you want to follow in the footsteps of Satan and oppose God? It makes no sense and is suicidal. Judging your worldview from posts on these topics, it seems Satan is less oppressive and less fake than your God. 57 minutes ago, blackbird said: God is absolutely holy and can do no evil. So, if you received a message from God to kill someone, you would do it? If armies were ordered to kill babies by God, then why not, right? It would be perfectly moral and righteous to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 4 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Judging your worldview from posts on these topics, it seems Satan is less oppressive and less fake than your God. So, if you received a message from God to kill someone, you would do it? If armies were ordered to kill babies by God, then why not, right? It would be perfectly moral and righteous to do so. Puerile comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: Puerile comments. God has commanded people to do things in the past. Why do you think He won’t do so now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted October 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 12:08 PM, TreeBeard said: Who tells you which ones to keep and which ones to throw out? ==== And yet we allow a woman to choose, while we allow others to live - we forbid capital punishment. And finally, we ask soldiers to kill. What is life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 On 10/27/2022 at 1:19 AM, August1991 said: And yet we allow a woman to choose, while we allow others to live - we forbid capital punishment. And finally, we ask soldiers to kill. What is life? Your question does not follow from your statements. Can you try and be more clear about what you’re asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.