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Russian Army collapsing - the unsurprising failure of a police-state


Moonbox

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2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Nobody yet knows who done it, but it appears the benefit is to Ukraine.

Nobody knew who blew up Nordstream either...until the Yankees threw the Ukrainians under the bus.

How does it benefit Ukraine? It floods Ukrainian cities including Kherson and makes any offensive in that area much more difficult. The Soviets blew up a dam on the same river in 1941 to slow a German offensive.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-dam-destruction-flood-1941-world-war-ii-german-invasion/32448719.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941

Edited by Aristides
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8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

How does it benefit Ukraine? It floods Ukrainian cities including Kherson and makes any offensive in that area much more difficult. The Soviets blew up a dam on the same river in 1941 to slow a German offensive.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-dam-destruction-flood-1941-world-war-ii-german-invasion/32448719.html

Which means the Russians did the same thing in 2023? It flooded Russian annexed land.

We don't know yet but...recent history suggests it was likely the US and Ukes.

At least that's my take on it all,,,considering the Nordstream thing.

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Which means the Russians did the same thing in 2023? It flooded Russian annexed land.

We don't know yet but...recent history suggests it was likely the US and Ukes.

At least that's my take on it all,,,considering the Nordstream thing.

Which means the Russians know their own history. It flooded Kherson which is now back in Ukrainian hands.

About equal numbers of Ukrainians and Russians have had to be evacuated. 

No one has been able to explain how the US and Ukrainians could do it. They would have to have got large quantities of explosives inside the dam, it would take a huge charge delivered very precisely, under water to do it from the outside. That's what it took to breach the Ruhr dams in 1943 and it took more than one.

We don't know who did Nordstream either. 

Edited by Aristides
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On 6/26/2023 at 1:46 AM, Moonbox said:

Something like 98% of the Russian Armed Forces was committed to the Ukrainian front line.  They don't have strategic reserves.  The only things they have defending Moscow are the various security services and the (probably) worthless and not especially well-equipped National Guard.  25,000 battle-hardened meanies would probably be worth more than 100,000 National Guard. 

The optics of storming the city, however, was not going to be great, and I guess the man didn't have the support he'd hoped for if it came to that.  


But the country was being overrun in a potential coup. Every able-bodied man should have been fighting that and certainly any member of the armed forces no matter what the consequences. Putin’s cynicism has demoralized Russia. It’s simply a matter of save yourself now. 

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1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Which means the Russians know their own history. It flooded Kherson which is now back in Ukrainian hands.

About equal numbers of Ukrainians and Russians have had to be evacuated. 

No one has been able to explain how the US and Ukrainians could do it. They would have to have got large quantities of explosives inside the dam, it would take a huge charge delivered very precisely, under water to do it from the outside. That's what it took to breach the Ruhr dams in 1943 and it took more than one.

We don't know who did Nordstream either. 

Correction 1: Kherson back in Ukrainian hands...benefit Ukraine.

Correction 2: YOU refuse to admit what Blinkey Blinken already admitted to. The Ukrainians did it...they gave a name of the supposed commander...who's apparently dead already... Ya...I'd buy that for a buck...

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40 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Correction 1: Kherson back in Ukrainian hands...benefit Ukraine.

Correction 2: YOU refuse to admit what Blinkey Blinken already admitted to. The Ukrainians did it...they gave a name of the supposed commander...who's apparently dead already... Ya...I'd buy that for a buck...

1. It flooded Kherson. How does that benefit Ukraine? It makes any Ukrainian advances over flooded a sodden terrain much more difficult. How does that benefit Ukraine?

2. Sure he did.

Edited by Aristides
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44 minutes ago, Aristides said:

1. It flooded Kherson. How does that benefit Ukraine? It makes any Ukrainian advances over flooded a sodden terrain much more difficult. How does that benefit Ukraine?

2. Sure he did.

1. It saved their asses. Delayed any advances.

2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/

 

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3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

But the country was being overrun in a potential coup. Every able-bodied man should have been fighting that and certainly any member of the armed forces no matter what the consequences. Putin’s cynicism has demoralized Russia. It’s simply a matter of save yourself now. 

25,000 troops was probably not enough to take a city as big as Moscow, especially if there was any fight whatsoever in the National Guard or other security services.  Regardless, Putin couldn't order the army to leave the Ukrainian frontlines because losing the war there is an existential threat to him.  The only thing he could do was hope that the thrown-together defenses in between him and Prigozhin would make enough of a fight of it that the optics of fighting street to street in Moscow would lose any popular support Prigozhin had...in my opinion.  

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

How do you figure? I have a strong feeling you may have that ass backwards.

Your strong feelings are poorly informed, as is most of what you say here.  

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33 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I don't think so. You still can't explain how Ukraine would be able to damage such a huge object so badly it would fail.

Fcked if I know. Ask them. They did the gas line. Seems they're good at espionage and sabatoge. 

35 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

25,000 troops was probably not enough to take a city as big as Moscow, especially if there was any fight whatsoever in the National Guard or other security services.  Regardless, Putin couldn't order the army to leave the Ukrainian frontlines because losing the war there is an existential threat to him.  The only thing he could do was hope that the thrown-together defenses in between him and Prigozhin would make enough of a fight of it that the optics of fighting street to street in Moscow would lose any popular support Prigozhin had...in my opinion.  

Your strong feelings are poorly informed, as is most of what you say here.  

Yet...I keep getting proven right.

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2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Who blew up Nordstream?

We'll probably never know for sure, but Seymour Hersh was certainly wrong.  

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Who killed the piece negotiations?

Russia getting thrashed at the start of the invasion, and running with their tails between their legs.  

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Here's a question for ya...who is all of the sudden, seeking a peace deal?

Why don't you tell me.  What does Redacted, Russia Today or Iranian news say?  

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

We'll probably never know for sure, but Seymour Hersh was certainly wrong.  

Russia getting thrashed at the start of the invasion, and running with their tails between their legs.  

Why don't you tell me.  What does Redacted, Russia Today or Iranian news say?  

https://bnn.network/conflict-defence/ukraine-crisis-peace-talks-to-begin-in-july/

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You’d think Prigozhin must have had some promise of support from within the Russian army as he was never going to succeed on his own. We’ll have to wait and see if the story below is true or if the US is merely adding to Putin’s paranoia:

 

Quote

A senior Russian general had advance knowledge of Yevgeny Prigozhin’s plans to rebel against Russia’s military leadership, according to U.S. officials briefed on American intelligence on the matter, which has prompted questions about what support the mercenary leader had inside the top ranks.

 

The officials said they are trying to learn if Gen. Sergei Surovikin, the former top Russian commander in Ukraine, helped plan Mr. Prigozhin’s actions last weekend, which posed the most dramatic threat to President Vladimir V. Putin in his 23 years in power.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/27/us/politics/russian-general-prigozhin-rebellion.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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More on that Surovikin story. Time will tell:

Quote

The top Russian military leader thought to have had advance knowledge of the weekend’s armed mutiny has reportedly gone missing amid rumors he’s being interrogated for possible “complicity in the rebellion.”

Gen. Sergei Surovikin, the ruthless one-time leader of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, was last seen telling the Wagner Group mercenaries to stop their uprising in an uncomfortable appeal likened to “a hostage video.”

“Surovikin has not been seen since Saturday,” when that video was filmed, according to the well-connected Rybar Telegram channel.

“It is not known for certain where General Armageddon is located,” the outlet said, using the nickname linked to Surovikin’s fearsome reputation.

“There is a version that he is under interrogation,” the outlet noted.

https://nypost.com/2023/06/28/russian-general-who-knew-about-mutiny-is-missing-report/

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On 6/26/2023 at 6:45 PM, taxme said:

Well, Zelensky must be a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer because he has many Nazi's helping him fight the Russians. Not my words. From my understanding, Zelensky is Jewish. Can you dispute that? 

There is a war going on in Ukraine, and like in all wars, there will be many innocent civilians being either injured or killed. A fact of life. Like I always say? To hear and learn about only one side of the story, is to know nothing at all. There are always two sides to every story. We never did get to hear Hitler's side of the story from the western MSM, now did we. And the western MSM is still refusing to give us Putin's side of the story. 

I once was able to get RT.COM on my TV. But it has been removed. Why? Looks like the western MSM only wants you and me to know the Zelensky's side of the story. At least that is my belief and opinion for now. 

You’re a victim of Putin’s state owned media and his lies spread on social media 

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