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I'M ANGRY! And, rightly so!


betsy

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14 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

1. Isn’t that why we’re a country?  It’s as much BC’s oil as it is Alberta’s.  Just like BC’s ports are Alberta’s ports.  

2. Alberta benefits enormously from BC ports to bring in and export goods.  BC doesn’t charge Alberta for the privilege.   Nor does BC hang it over Alberta’s heads as if they’re just lucky BC allows them the use of their ports.   

1.  For practical reasons, it is neither - it belongs to the largely foreign oiled energy companies.

2. The port is a federal function... 

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13 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Sympathy by whom?   Do you think the voters that he needs to win over will be sympathetic to him never giving interviews other than to right-wing podcasts?  

I remember Jean Charest election in 2008, because my father worked a lot for his reelection this year in Québec.

The press was also very hostile toward Jean Charest because he was campaigning on a more right-wing program than usual for a Liberal (at the time, corruption was not the big deal, it was the financing of the healthcare system that was the core issue of the election).

What did the Liberals do?

Spaghetti dinners, phone calls, door-to-door campaign, visits to nursing homes but also helped organizing the QS party which was stealing votes from the PQ.

The Liberals won the majority of the seats that year.

I think the same recipe could be applied for the CPC, and I think they should discretely try to organize the Greens and the NDP as much as possible on the low, like the Liberals did with Quebec Solidaire in 2008, but also be more of a grassroot movement.

Edited by QuebecOverCanada
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12 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

NDP coven of BC's lower mainland and Vancouver Island.

I wanted to see if it was correct that BC is only “left wing” on the West Coast.  
 

Looking at an electoral map from the last election, a lot of interior ridings that the BC Libs won were because of vote-splitting by the NDP/Greens.  These ridings also have way less people in them than the coastal electoral districts.    Many that the BC Libs won were quite close in votes.  
 

My conclusion is that BC is not “really conservative” everywhere else other than the coast (which is also where most of the people are). 
 

There’s a great interactive electoral map:  https://bc.ctvnews.ca/interactive-map-here-s-a-look-at-how-b-c-voted-in-the-last-provincial-election-1.5136819

if you’d like to actually have an informed opinion….

Edited by TreeBeard
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5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

I remember Jean Charest election in 2008, because my father worked a lot for his reelection this year in Québec.

The press was also very hostile toward Jean Charest because he was campaigning on a more right-wing program than usual for a Liberal (at the time, corruption was not the big deal, it was the financing of the healthcare system that was the core issue of the election).

What did the Liberals do?

Spaghetti dinners, phone calls, door-to-door campaign, visits to nursing homes but also helped organizing the QS party which was stealing votes from the PQ.

The Liberals won the majority of the seats that year.

I think the same recipe could be applied for the CPC, and I think they should discretely try to organize the Greens and the NDP as much as possible on the low, like the Liberals did with Quebec Solidaire in 2008, but also be more of a grassroot movement.

You seemed to have changed the topic.  
Do you think the voters that PP needs will be sympathetic to him never giving media interviews and characterizing the media as “the enemy”?

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1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

The root cause of people turning to fake news is that every media outlet is not just determined to report the news but to persuade us to their narrative, whatever that narrative might be.

This is what a bullshit filter is for. Filters do plug up and need to be rinsed or changed on occasion and people get lazy and don't bother and worse hard-boiled partisans simply don't believe anyone other than themselves is in possession of a filter or knows how to use/service them.  The narrative is that everyone is being misinformed.

Which is why I say we should go around the media to get as close to the real source of a story involving politicians by stopping in-camera lobbying.

Unfortunately too many partisans want their politicians to be afforded the opportunity to operate in secrecy so.... The problem as I see it is us as voters and we need to take more responsibility for being better informed and assertive when it comes to pressuring politicians to be more transparent.

Maybe it's not enough to give politicians and media a big middle finger and instead it should be directed at partisans who pick sides.

AFAIC there are really only two sides worth considering, those who are governed vs those who govern.  Mistrust and loss of faith in our political system practically guarantees there is a big reset coming but I doubt it's going to be an orderly one.  

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1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

He should be fired for that. This is extremely unprofessional.  In fact this might be the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen a Canadian reporter do from a mainstream media news org.  He's acting like a baby.

Did he not get PP to answer a couple questions?   Can’t you say he did his job?
 

Is this what it might take for PP, Leader of the Official Opposition, to actually give interviews?  

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

This is what a bullshit filter is for. Filters do plug up and need to be rinsed or changed on occasion and people get lazy and don't bother and worse hard-boiled partisans simply don't believe anyone other than themselves is in possession of a filter or knows how to use/service them.  The narrative is that everyone is being misinformed.

I think the 'hard boiled' partisans just figure everything that disagrees with them is dishonest. And yes, a lot of people have a bullshit filter, but that doesn't always work with stories where one side of the story is left out. And it doesn't work for everyone anyway. A lot of people lead very busy lives and only give the news cursory attention.

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Which is why I say we should go around the media to get as close to the real source of a story involving politicians by stopping in-camera lobbying.

Unfortunately too many partisans want their politicians to be afforded the opportunity to operate in secrecy

I don't think that's true. I'm all for making government as open as possible. You shouldn't even need an access to information request to get information. The bulk of what people would want should be on the web and clearly and easily catalogued to find what they want. That includes all lobbying by whomever. The only stuff I would keep secret are defense and intelligence information, and cabinet documents. And in the latter cause only for five years.

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5 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

I think the same recipe could be applied for the CPC, and I think they should discretely try to organize the Greens and the NDP as much as possible on the low, 

Buddy, if Poilievre can organize the Greens we should just name him prime minister for life because he's the most brilliant politician of our era.

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6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Professor Noam Chomsky - an actual Marxist or close - actually explained this in the film Manufacturing Consent.  The NY Times is more complicit in maintaining the established order than being "liberal" or whatnot but you have to look between the lines to see it.

I was thinking this just this morning reading yet another scary-scary columnist talking about how Poilievre is going to destroy all life as we know it. It's very much like these people are representatives of the established order aghast at someone stepping outside their sacred order and doing things in a slightly different way. It's like they haven't had almost two decades to watch Poilievre and they're all suddenly terrified of what this "outsider" is going to do to their comfortably settled world. All because he's acting just slightly different.

 

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This essentially postmodern stance has been exploited by foreign actors who want to leverage populism to destabilize democracies.  

Populism is a misunderstood term. Trudeau is, by most measures, also a populist. Lots of politicians are now. It takes a brave man to come up with his own ideas and try to get elected on those, even when a lot of people disagree. The comfortable thing to do is take polls to find out what people want and then parrot that. Don't try to convince the marching band to change, just run out in front of them and pretend you're a leader.

 

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That which doesn't kill us, though, makes us stronger.  Open societies will be able to respond, IMO.

How open are we these days?

George Orwell said "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

How many people still believe you should have the right to speak your mind and say things they don't like?

 

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5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

How high is an “all time high”?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_separatism :

Quote

A May 2020 poll by Northwest Research for the Western Standard found that 41% of respondents would support independence in a referendum, 50% would be opposed, and 9% weren't sure.[56]Removing undecideds, 45% would support and 55% would be opposed. Respondents were also asked if they would support a referendum if "the federal government is unwilling to negotiate with Alberta on a new constitutional arrangement", 48% said yes, while 52% said no. Support for independence was higher outside of Alberta's two biggest cities, with Edmonton being the most opposed.

Support for Wexit has approached 50% in Alberta under Trudeau.

 

I found this under the general Google search, but I didn't follow up.

Quote
What percent of Albertans want to separate?
 
 
A February 2019 poll from Angus Reid found 50% of Albertans would support secession from Canada but also found the likelihood that Alberta would separate to be "remote."

Yeah, Alberta hates Trudeau and it's almost enough where separation is a possibility. 

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7 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You seemed to have changed the topic.  
Do you think the voters that PP needs will be sympathetic to him never giving media interviews and characterizing the media as “the enemy”?

I haven't changed the topic, but I understand my answer took you off guard.

To a hostile press, you don't answer questions when you want to win. Look at how Biden won. You take other ways to get to the population. If you have to get coverage, you can in an orderly manner or by not getting an intermediary in between the politician and the population, such as posting on social media, or directly get to the population through grassroot implication. Politicians nowadays are so lazy they think they have to just get to stand on a podium and answer directly to the press to get votes. You don't use this strategy if you are legitimate, especially if you don't have the press in your pocket paid by taxpayers' money like Trudeau did. You organize on the ground, get people working for you to do phone calls, spaghetti dinners, door-to-door style of campaign.

Edited by QuebecOverCanada
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8 hours ago, I am Groot said:

The root cause of people turning to fake news is that every media outlet is not just determined to report the news but to persuade us to their narrative, whatever that narrative might be. The mainstream media won't deliberately tell an untruth, but they don't have any issue with lying by omission. They will tell you the parts of the story that will make you lean towards their narrative, if possible, and try to avoid the parts which could persuade you to lean the other way. They will also quote selected people - the ones that further their narrative, and not the others. It will cover things out of proportion to their news value to continually poke at you to agree with their views. And it will do stories specifically based on getting your agreement with their views. Through all of this the mainstream media has engendered a lot of doubts about the accuracy and truthfulness of the news they present,

One of the main methods that the media uses to push/downplay a narrative is to give faces to the people whose stories support their narrative, and to leave the victims of stories which hurt their narrative faceless.

The level of emotion that you feel when you see a story determines how much you care about it and how long that memory lasts, and they can turn up or turn down your level of emotion as easily as turning on a light.

The little baby laying face down on the greek shore, and the turtle with a straw in his nose are perfect examples of personalizing stories to make them punch above their weight. 

Not giving faces to the people who were killed in the BLM riots, ignoring the black boy who was gunned down by BLM, and referring to the Waukesha attack as a "car crash" while leaving its victims nameless and faceless was a perfect example of the media downplaying a story. 

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2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Buddy, if Poilievre can organize the Greens we should just name him prime minister for life because he's the most brilliant politician of our era.

I think schemes can be made in the background to push the Greens up. Voluntary work can be made by CPC members for the Greens. I remember the Quebec Liberal Party (strongly Federalist) had many volunteers helping Québec Solidaire (strongly Separatist, left-wing) for their fund raisers.

It is really important for the Left wing vote to be divided, especially their radical wings, such as radical environmentalists and socialists. It is not possible to win an election if you're Right Wing vs Lefty Liberals.

You have to make it Right Wing vs Liberals vs Progressives to get a win if you're a Tory in Canada.

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