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The FBI Plot to Kidnap Gretchen Whitmer


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48 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If a judge decided that there was enough evidence for the defence to proceed with an entrapment defence (which isn't automatically allowed) against the FBI (how sad is that?), and two people were acquitted because the jury believed that the FBI was guilty of entrapment, then you can all it what you want. I don't really care about your own personal labels. 

Two others were found guilty and another two pleaded guilty.

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6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

What is it you don't understand about being found guilty and pleading guilty?

What is it that you don't understand about the FBI being found guilty of entrapment, and scheduling the fruits of their entrapment to be used to influence a federal election? 

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20 hours ago, Aristides said:

Two were found guilty and two pleaded guilty.

Again, what is it that you don't understand about the FBI being found guilty of entrapment, and scheduling the fruits of their entrapment to be used to influence a federal election? 

This was their plot. They're the ones who were getting people high and offering them money to buy guns and ammo to carry it out. They're the ones who timed the plot to interfere in the 2020 election. 

Now we know that the FBI even pressured FB to interfere in the 2020 election by making them back the FBI's lies about the laptop, which was also done to affect the election.

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Gretchen Whitmer barfed up the following comment:

Quote

“Today’s verdicts prove that violence and threats have no place in our politics and those who seek to divide us will be held accountable. They will not succeed,” said Whitmer, a Democrat, who turned 51 years old on Tuesday.

“But we must also take a hard look at the status of our politics,” she added. “Plots against public officials and threats to the FBI are a disturbing extension of radicalized domestic terrorism that festers in our nation, threatening the very foundation of our republic.”

I wonder if that stupid ho said similar things when the federal building in Portland was under siege for 100 days, or when protesters tried to breach WH security, or when BLM overran a police station in Seattle, or when a shooter targeted Republican senators at a baseball game, or about protesters at the homes of SCJs - especially when they have plans and weapons to kill them...

No, she doesn't. It's called stupidity & hypocrisy. 

The Dems and their FBI attack dogs only cared about 2 hrs of violence and rioting over the past 8 years.

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On 8/17/2022 at 3:42 PM, Infidel Dog said:

The Whitmer Kidnapping plot was an FBI fabricated hoax. Go ahead Jack and herb show us how superior you are by proving that wrong. Bet you can't.

Why don’t you prove it’s true, instead of making an outlandish claim and declaring that if so-and-so cannot “prove” it’s false, then it must be true? That’s nonsense.  

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Proof is tricky in a trial whether you're trying to show a negative or a positive. But it is the duty of the prosecution to show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The old maxim of 'you can't prove a negative' doesn't apply here. We're having this conversation because there was a trial.

To me the preponderance of the evidence showed the Whitmer kidnapping plot was an FBI setup. A hoax.

I know 2 of the 13 were convicted on retrial of some BS charge. Attempting to obtain a weapon of mass destruction or some such nonsense. They pressured another of them to plead guilty in a plea deal to give evidence for the state. They got another one on an explosive charge.

Two were found not guilty of the kidnapping plot.

Why? Did you want to retry them here to see what the evidence says? We could do that I guess. Bit a pain in the ass, if you ask me. But go ahead. You first.

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On 9/4/2022 at 11:11 AM, Infidel Dog said:

To me the preponderance of the evidence showed the Whitmer kidnapping plot was an FBI setup. A hoax.

Yup. That's the only reason those two guys got off. 

An entrapment defence instantly throws out the possibility of proving that you didn't actually commit the crime in question, which is a risky strategy.

Effectively the defence is saying: "We did it, but we were never interested in doing it until we were influenced to do it by police." The burden of proof on them is to show that the police actually influenced them to commit the crime. Luckily the police have to hand over all of the evidence in their possession. 

The majority of the burden of proof is still on the prosecution, they're supposed to prove that this is something that the perpetrators were intent on doing before their agents started influencing and offering plots.

[I say "intent on doing it", but the legal hurdle is actually just "show a predisposition", which is a pretty low bar IMO. Lots of actors showed 'a predisposition to killing Trump' in public but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they were actually intent on doing it] 

In this case FBI agents got a guy high on their marijuana and offered him credit cards with $5,000 on them to go and buy a bunch of guns. He refused on 5 occasions.

The fact that he refused so much help to commit this crime basically shows that he wasn't predisposed to do it.

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On 9/4/2022 at 2:11 PM, Infidel Dog said:

Proof is tricky in a trial whether you're trying to show a negative or a positive. But it is the duty of the prosecution to show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The old maxim of 'you can't prove a negative' doesn't apply here. We're having this conversation because there was a trial.

To me the preponderance of the evidence showed the Whitmer kidnapping plot was an FBI setup. A hoax.

I know 2 of the 13 were convicted on retrial of some BS charge. Attempting to obtain a weapon of mass destruction or some such nonsense. They pressured another of them to plead guilty in a plea deal to give evidence for the state. They got another one on an explosive charge.

Two were found not guilty of the kidnapping plot.

Why? Did you want to retry them here to see what the evidence says? We could do that I guess. Bit a pain in the ass, if you ask me. But go ahead. You first.

How else do you infiltrate?

If somebody tried to induce you to kidnap someone, and you went along with it, then you’re a kidnapper. Doesn’t matter that the person inducing you is FBI or not. 

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10 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

They didn't just infiltrate. They had the plot initiated. There would have been no plot to kidnap Whitmer without the FBI. As it was there wasn't much of one anyway. Their plot fizzled. They couldn't talk their 'gang that couldn't shoot straight' they organized into actually doing the deed.

Entrapment would be the case if one of the FBI informants were charged, because they were acting in cooperation with and on behalf of law enforcement.  But if someone agrees to go along with a crime, and they plan the crime , then they are a criminal.  Doesn’t matter whether an undercover cop talked then into it or “set them up.”

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This is far from being the first time.

Look up what happened at Pamela Gellar's Draw Mohammed contest if you want to see what I'm talking about.

The FBI agent was actually at the assassination attempt on that one. Supervising? I don't know. Maybe. He was egging the terrorists on. We know that.

I could make an argument for an FBI involvement in January 6th.

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They were convicted on a retrial of attempting to obtain a weapon of mass destruction. Not kidnapping. Kind of a bogus sounding charge if you ask me. The first trial was a hung jury. There's controversy about the second trial.

But no, nobody has been convicted of trying to kidnap Whitmer. 2 were found not guilty of something. Not sure if that was for kidnapping but you at least have a 50/50 split of trial by juries. So neither means much.

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On 9/8/2022 at 4:51 AM, Rebound said:

How else do you infiltrate?

If somebody tried to induce you to kidnap someone, and you went along with it, then you’re a kidnapper. Doesn’t matter that the person inducing you is FBI or not. 

No, that's not the case at all. 

The police aren't allowed to put ideas in your head and then arrest you for going along with them. 

They're supposed to join up and go with the flow, not create their own plots, get people stoned, give them gobs of money, and then use them to influence elections. 

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19 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

They were convicted on a retrial of attempting to obtain a weapon of mass destruction. Not kidnapping. Kind of a bogus sounding charge if you ask me. The first trial was a hung jury. There's controversy about the second trial.

But no, nobody has been convicted of trying to kidnap Whitmer. 2 were found not guilty of something. Not sure if that was for kidnapping but you at least have a 50/50 split of trial by juries. So neither means much.

The FBI were the ones who brought the explosives expert in. The idea to use explosives seems to be their own idea. 

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On 8/18/2022 at 9:23 AM, WestCanMan said:

Is it it time to seriously consider that the FBI is the KGB of the western world?

Now you're suggesting the KGB was pursuing it's own interests against the Communist Party's the way the FBI is against the Republican Party?

I suppose Putin would be the best evidence that shit happens. But if Putin is one of the good guys perhaps you need to consider the possibility that the FBI's intentions are as honourable.

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On 8/17/2022 at 11:09 AM, herbie said:

The FBI plants bombs and kidnaps people? Do you even want to be sane?

 

On 8/17/2022 at 11:34 AM, WestCanMan said:

No one said that they did. Do you ever even pretend to be intelligent?

 

On 9/9/2022 at 7:18 AM, WestCanMan said:

The FBI were the ones who brought the explosives expert in. The idea to use explosives seems to be their own idea. 

Hmmmmm.

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Now you're suggesting the KGB was pursuing it's own interests against the Communist Party's the way the FBI is against the Republican Party?

?

I'm suggesting that the FBI works for the Dems in the exact same way that the KGB works for the communist party. 

I though that would be obvious enough but, whatever.

 

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Hmmmmm.

OMFG, I swear that I wouldn't have to explain this to most 5 year olds....

No, the FBI didn't want to kidnap Whitmer and kill her. 

They came up with that plot, got some guys high and offered them money to go along with it, and then arrested them for going along with it. 

 

Do you think it would be hard for the FBI to run a similar entrapment scheme on some Antifa clowns? All they have to do is find someone willing to pretend to have a BA in basket weaving, get them to go without showering for a month, and hang out at a skateboard park for a week. They'd find lots of guys who'd smoke the FBI's weed and plot to kill Trump. They could schedule it to be busted open in October and by the time their skullduggery was made known to the public, the election would already be over. 

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5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OMFG, I swear that I wouldn't have to explain this to most 5 year olds....

No, the FBI didn't want to kidnap Whitmer and kill her. 

They came up with that plot, got some guys high and offered them money to go along with it, and then arrested them for going along with it. 

 

Do you think it would be hard for the FBI to run a similar entrapment scheme on some Antifa clowns? All they have to do is find someone willing to pretend to have a BA in basket weaving, get them to go without showering for a month, and hang out at a skateboard park for a week. They'd find lots of guys who'd smoke the FBI's weed and plot to kill Trump. They could schedule it to be busted open in October and by the time their skullduggery was made known to the public, the election would already be over. 

Nobody who smokes weed is going to go with a plot to kill someone. Have you even smoked weed?

It might work if they got them drunk. LMFAO

Edited by robosmith
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17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OMFG, I swear that I wouldn't have to explain this to most 5 year olds....

No, the FBI didn't want to kidnap Whitmer and kill her. 

They came up with that plot, got some guys high and offered them money to go along with it, and then arrested them for going along with it.

Maybe it's Republican FBI agents you're talking about. 

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