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Misinformation and hair-brained conspiracy theories have a price, Mr. Jones - $50M and more to come


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2 hours ago, dialamah said:

You really are out in left field aren't you.  The parents of a kid who was killed in a massacre bought a civil suit against the person who defamed them by speaking lies.  The lies were believed by a certain really stupid demographic, who then threatened and harassed the parents.  This isn't left/right, this is tragedy speaking out against an opportunistic, lying POS.

So Jones is responsible for people making threats? Why not go after the people making threats?

As for your comments about not being a left v right thing... of course it is. I dont see anywhere near the outrage about leftist lies which led to mass violence in 2020.. 

Edited by West
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, West said:

There must be malice involved in the statement. Simply being wrong about something doesn't mean it's defamation... 

Nope.  You can still be liable with no malice intended.  Reckless stupidity is something that can and does get punished regularly, and if you knew even the starting basics of legal theory you'd not have claimed otherwise.  The basis of every case is the harm caused, and often the intent is often of secondary importance.  

10 hours ago, West said:

And yes an apology would strike against malice intent. 

A real apology, with actual (not fake) contrition, and the judge and jury get to decide if it actually matters.  

10 hours ago, West said:

What I find with your ilk is you allow raw hatred of conservatives to cloud your judgement... 

Yet I'm not the one sticking up for an angry clown who told the nation, despite it being a self-evidently true, that a bunch of kids getting murdered was a government false-flag operation, and that no kids actually died.  You couldn't have made up a stupider and more obviously untrue story, but there he was, and here you are now looking dumb for defending him.  

 

Edited by Moonbox
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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I guess we know where your moral compass is - lying is ok and accountability is for other people, not you or your heroes.

you are the accountability hater

the harassers aren't accountable in your world

but Alex Jones is somehow responsible for their actions despite condemning those actions

Alex Jones is responsible for his actions

Alex Jones is not responsible for the actions of others

that's how accountability works

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4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you are the accountability hater

the harassers aren't accountable in your world

but Alex Jones is somehow responsible for their actions despite condemning those actions

Alex Jones is responsible for his actions

Alex Jones is not responsible for the actions of others

that's how accountability works

Give me a break. WTF did he think was going to happen? Damn right he is responsible for his actions. I don't know why you think people should be able to say anything they want and bear no responsibility for the fallout.

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4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Give me a break. WTF did he think was going to happen? Damn right he is responsible for his actions. I don't know why you think people should be able to say anything they want and bear no responsibility for the fallout.

nothing he said makes him responsible for the actions of crazy people

celebrities are not responsible for the actions of their craziest fans

the only reason you are pretending Alex Jones is

is because you hate him and can't think logically about the situation because of your bias

Edited by Yzermandius19
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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you are the accountability hater

the harassers aren't accountable in your world

The harassers are accountable (if you can find and catch them).  That doesn't mean that Alex Jones isn't responsible telling them lies and convincing them that other people were committing nefarious acts that they chose the act on.  He did that.  

20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

but Alex Jones is somehow responsible for their actions despite condemning those actions

Alex Jones is responsible for his actions

Alex Jones is not responsible for the actions of others

that's how accountability works

Sure, but that's the whole problem with telling lies and committing slander/libel.  It has consequences.  You don't sue someone simply for lying. That's frivolous.  You sue when the lies that were told lead to harm, and the action and consequence chain here is:

1.  Alex Jones tells malicious lies and knew they weren't true over an extended period of time.   

2.  People believed those lies and were convinced they had to act on them.  

Those people would not have bothered any of these parents if they were not convinced by false stories Alex Jones told, and without his incitement.  That's what he's responsible for.  That's how the Law works.  

Edited by Moonbox
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10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

nothing he said makes him responsible for the actions of crazy people

celebrities are not responsible for the actions of their craziest fans

the only reason you are pretending Alex Jones is

is because you hate him and can't think logically about the situation because of your bias

Aristides is the perfect candidate for a right good Cappsing

 for like a thousand pages at least

heh

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53 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Nope.  You can still be liable with no malice intended.  Reckless stupidity is something that can and does get punished regularly, and if you knew even the starting basics of legal theory you'd not have claimed otherwise.  The basis of every case is the harm caused, and often the intent is often of secondary importance.  

A real apology, with actual (not fake) contrition, and the judge and jury get to decide if it actually matters.  

Yet I'm not the one sticking up for an angry clown who told the nation, despite it being a self-evidently true, that a bunch of kids getting murdered was a government false-flag operation, and that no kids actually died.  You couldn't have made up a stupider and more obviously untrue story, but there he was, and here you are now looking dumb for defending him.  

 

1. I've already stated I'm not "sticking up" for Jones. I'm sticking up for basic principles of democracy namely a fair process. 

2. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about when you state you don't need to prove malice in a defamation claim. This isn't even first level law school stuff... I learned this stuff in a 300 level business law undergrad class. 

"The Sullivan court stated that "actual malice" means that the defendant said the defamatory statement "with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not." 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation

These guys actually are lawyers, one in the US and one in Canada and they outline the flaws in the case

 

 

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4 hours ago, dialamah said:

It was a civil suit, not a criminal charge.  He was found guilty for defamation, which is what his lies were.  Then he was assessed damages against the people his lies hurt.

If some idiot says Sandy Hook was a fake conspiracy just ignore it.

Defamation/slander/libel should have a high bar.  When the lies damage a person's finances I get it, that can be appropriate to sue, but hurting people's feelings...like really?  50 million dollars in damages.  Seriously?

Did Jones ever mention any of the victims personally?  As far as I know he said Sandy Hook was a leftwing conspiracy.  Uh ok.  I'm not going to pounce on someone's rights because I dislike them or what they say.  I'm not a dictator.

 

Edited by Moonlight Graham
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35 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The harassers are accountable (if you can find and catch them).  That doesn't mean that Alex Jones isn't responsible telling them lies and convincing them that other people were committing nefarious acts that they chose the act on.  He did that.  

Sure, but that's the whole problem with telling lies and committing slander/libel.  It has consequences.  You don't sue someone simply for lying. That's frivolous.  You sue when the lies that were told lead to harm, and the action and consequence chain here is:

1.  Alex Jones tells malicious lies and knew they weren't true over an extended period of time.   

2.  People believed those lies and were convinced they had to act on them.  

Those people would not have bothered any of these parents if they were not convinced by false stories Alex Jones told, and without his incitement.  That's what he's responsible for.  That's how the Law works.  

If Jones told people to harass someone, he should be charged for inciting harassment.

If Jones has a dumb opinion and other people break the law he isn't legally responsible.  It's as simple as that.  People are responsible for their own actions.

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31 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If some idiot says Sandy Hook was a fake conspiracy just ignore it.

The point is that these people didn't ignore it.

If I go tell your friends and colleagues that you are embezzling money, and they tell your boss, who fires you and has you charged, am I responsible for the damage done to your reputation and your job loss?  Or can I use the defense that it's not my fault what other people do based on my lies?  I don't think so; you'd be able to sure me for defamation and likely collect damages.

No different for Jones - people got hurt because he lied about Sandy Hook, about the kids who died.

It's ridiculous that people defend this behavior.

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2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

nothing he said makes him responsible for the actions of crazy people

celebrities are not responsible for the actions of their craziest fans

the only reason you are pretending Alex Jones is

is because you hate him and can't think logically about the situation because of your bias

Actually it does when he spews his garbage. How do you think he makes a fortune off this crap if he doesn't expect people to believe it? Maybe you sticking up for him it is a product of the Internet age that makes people think they can say whatever they want with no consequences. News Flash, if you use your real name, there are.

This son of a bitch made a lot of money villainizing the parents of kids who had been brutally murdered and you stick up for him. That's fucking sick.

Edited by Aristides
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4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Actually it does when he spews his garbage. How do you think he makes a fortune off this crap if he doesn't expect people to believe it? Maybe you sticking up for him it is a product of the Internet age that makes people think they can say whatever they want with no consequences. News Flash, if you use your real name, there are.

you not liking what he says

doesn't make him responsible for their reaction to what he says

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

The point is that these people didn't ignore it.

If I go tell your friends and colleagues that you are embezzling money, and they tell your boss, who fires you and has you charged, am I responsible for the damage done to your reputation and your job loss?  Or can I use the defense that it's not my fault what other people do based on my lies?  I don't think so; you'd be able to sure me for defamation and likely collect damages.

No different for Jones - people got hurt because he lied about Sandy Hook, about the kids who died.

It's ridiculous that people defend this behavior.

Well in that instance it would depend if there is malicious intent. If you honestly believed someone was embezzling money and turns out they were not doesn't mean that you acted with malicious intent. You have a right to be wrong 

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On 8/6/2022 at 8:33 AM, dialamah said:

Why must everything be about your extreme political partisanship.

That's pretty wild coming from you. There's not a topic under the sun that you don't see and discuss without extreme political partisanship.

You won't even admit that healthy people - who have absolutely nothing to gain from vaxing - are suffering extreme side-effects from the pseudovax, or that they still spread covid after being jabbed, or that the same people who are at risk from covid still die of covid regardless of how many boosters they have, solely because of your extreme political bias

Honestly, how much more extreme can it get than ignoring actual human suffering? Yet you won't even consider that it exists until the Demonrats, Libs, CNN or CTV finally fess up.

The case could be made that you are exhibiting psychotic political partisanship.

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On 8/6/2022 at 4:08 PM, Dougie93 said:

according to the courts, Alex Jones is worth $270 million ?

even with the $50 million in damages paid

he's still worth $220 million ?

damn, apparently disinformation pays

CTV, CNN, the Dems, and the libs have definitely managed to make a living off of it. 

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1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

CTV, CNN, the Dems, and the libs have definitely managed to make a living off of it. 

Yup.. 

-Russian collusion

-Jussie Smollet

-All the nonsense leading to blm riots

-Covington kids

-Stormy Daniel's

-Planes falling into black holes

-Weapons of mass destruction

-noose hoax (multiple)

-Pseudovax stops transmission

-Face diapers stops transmission

-Need to close small businesses while allowing Walmart to remain open

...

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9 hours ago, West said:

So Jones is responsible for people making threats? Why not go after the people making threats?

As for your comments about not being a left v right thing... of course it is. I dont see anywhere near the outrage about leftist lies which led to mass violence in 2020.. 

I guess you can ask the same thing of Trump? Is Trump responsible for the actions of some on 6 Jan??

Seems more and more likely that the hearings are determining that Trump had a major roll in the 6 Jan events. 

I don't know if the police are or did go after the people making the threats but, were they incited by someone?

"Leftist lies that led to mass violence in 2020"? Can you elaborate please?

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8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you not liking what he says

doesn't make him responsible for their reaction to what he says

So if you train a dog to attack people and it does attack someone, you aren't responsible because the dog did it.

Edited by Aristides
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6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So if you train a dog to attack people and it does attack someone, you aren't responsible because the dog did it.

Alex Jones didn't train them to harass the parents

he denounced it and never condoned it

they did it in spite of Alex Jones, not because of him

Edited by Yzermandius19
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20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Alex Jones didn't train them to harass the parents

he denounced it and never condoned it

they did it in spite of Alex Jones, not because of him

He said Sandy Hook was a hoax, the parents were actors and the dead kids didn't exist, they used blue screens, etc etc. 

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