Hasten registration of foreign trained medical professionals

[myata]

Ontario, but the trend is the same across the country.

Question 1: Does it instill in you confidence in the future quality of our venerable national pride system?

Question 2: What foreign systems the new professionals will come from, mostly and predominantly?

If prefer can answer this first.

Question 3 (way more challenging): why couldn't the same professionals be trained here?

When was the last time the country could do something not trivial? Why cannot we train enough doctors and nurses, for us? How much sense does this make?

Edited August 4, 2022 by myata

[myata]

To think of it, we never seem to have a shortage of hospital CEOs.. a paradox! did I just discover it? Could it be related, anyhow? A mystery!

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Ontario, but the trend is the same across the country.

Question 1: Does it instill in you confidence in the future quality of our venerable national pride system?

Question 2: What foreign systems the new professionals will come from, mostly and predominantly?

If prefer can answer this first.

Question 3 (way more challenging): why couldn't the same professionals be trained here?

When was the last time the country could do something not trivial? Why cannot we train enough doctors and nurses, for us? How much sense does this make?

1. The applicants qualifications need to be scrutinized and if the certifications are recognized, no problem.

2. Do not understand the point you are trying to make.

3. The medical/nursing schools are full. It takes 4 years to graduate nurses and much longer for doctorsso, there is no way of doing it faster.

No snapping of the fingers to get them quicker.

There is this unspoken thought that if the government offers more money nurses would pop out of the woodwork. Many hospitals are already offering signing bonuses and=with not much success so...??

[myata]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

1. The applicants qualifications

OK so you have great qualifications say from Nauru or Zimbabve. How would you "scrutinize" them? Let me guess: the same way as you scrutinize war criminal "refugees" who would then bog in the system for decades. Or do you know any other methods of scrutinizing? Also p.2.

7 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

3. The medical/nursing schools are full. It takes 4 years

Are you trying to say that four years back we didn't have this crisis? I've been about it for as long as I can remember.

[ExFlyer]

14 minutes ago, myata said:

OK so you have great qualifications say from Nauru or Zimbabve. How would you "scrutinize" them? Let me guess: the same way as you scrutinize war criminal "refugees" who would then bog in the system for decades. Or do you know any other methods of scrutinizing? Also p.2.

Are you trying to say that four years back we didn't have this crisis? I've been about it for as long as I can remember.

There are the medical associations and nurses associations and they can be the authenticators and certifiers since they will be working according to their rules and regulations and standards.   https://www.cno.org/en/become-a-nurse/new-applicants1/ontario/registration-requirements-for-rns-and-rpns/

Are you really that stupid?? War criminals??

 

 

 

Yes, I am saying 4 years ago there was no dramatic nurses shortages such as today or, to you have some evidence otherwise.

Edited August 4, 2022 by ExFlyer

[myata]

14 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Yes, I am saying 4 years ago there was no dramatic nurses shortages

So non dramatic or non very dramatic shortages are perfectly fine - because we know exactly when the next pandemic is not going to happen? Then you're dreaming and sure keep at it, till a hard wake up. It will happen because it always happens in such cases.

14 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

There are the medical associations and nurses associations

There are immigration associations and rules whatever and still we routinely have criminals brought into the country boggling the system for years if not decades. You mean bureaucracy is the answer to all problems? Keep dreaming (above).

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, myata said:

So non dramatic or non very dramatic shortages are perfectly fine - because we know exactly when the next pandemic is not going to happen? Then you're dreaming and sure keep at it, till a hard wake up. It will happen because it always happens in such cases.

There are immigration associations and rules whatever and still we routinely have criminals brought into the country boggling the system for years if not decades. You mean bureaucracy is the answer to all problems? Keep dreaming (above).

Oh please stop. 

There are changes and shortages in many professions over the years.

Trying to justify your dumb comments with even dumber comments only make you sound desperate and simpleton.

Are you equating medical professional organizations to criminal immigrants?

You asked how do you scrutinize incoming medical professionals and I said that there are medical and nurses associations that can do the vetting.

Is there something you cannot or do not want to understand? You asked and it was answered.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by ExFlyer

[myata]

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

There are changes and shortages

Problems and challenges can happen in any field.

 

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

over the years.

and then they keep happening for years without a trace, a whiff of intelligent solution: you know it's Canada. If you ignore the problem long enough, it may just go away. Or, it won't. Or it'll get worse and then you'll have to try even harder.

[ExFlyer]

25 minutes ago, myata said:

Problems and challenges can happen in any field.

 

and then they keep happening for years without a trace, a whiff of intelligent solution: you know it's Canada. If you ignore the problem long enough, it may just go away. Or, it won't. Or it'll get worse and then you'll have to try even harder.

So, you finally come to that realization?? As you have been told.

So, your solution is?

Oh, you have none? Surprise

Edited August 5, 2022 by ExFlyer

[myata]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

So, your solution is?

Wake up. Or hard stop. Only two essential options. The mindless-happy ride will not go on forever.

Edited August 5, 2022 by myata

[eyeball]

51 minutes ago, myata said:

Wake up.

So become woke?  Or are wake and woke two completely unrelated terms?

[myata]

In this context, entirely unrelated. Woking up does not add intelligence, independent and objective analysis of the reality and so cannot solve any serious problems.

[ExFlyer]

56 minutes ago, myata said:

Wake up. Or hard stop. Only two essential options. The mindless-happy ride will not go on forever.

WTF are you babbling about?

Wake up? To what?

Hard stop/ for what?

Mindless happy ride? What the H are you on about now?

Your questions have been answered. If they don't suit you, then open your yap and provide something better.

You are very adept at whining, spouting nonsense and playing dumb. Try being smarter and not keep proving your stupidity.

[Army Guy]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:34 PM, ExFlyer said:

1. The applicants qualifications need to be scrutinized and if the certifications are recognized, no problem.

2. Do not understand the point you are trying to make.

3. The medical/nursing schools are full. It takes 4 years to graduate nurses and much longer for doctorsso, there is no way of doing it faster.

No snapping of the fingers to get them quicker.

There is this unspoken thought that if the government offers more money nurses would pop out of the woodwork. Many hospitals are already offering signing bonuses and=with not much success so...??

Develop a program where hospitals scrutinize them, like an OJT program, today on the news they said 15,000 health care workers in ontario alone ,are waiting to get scrutinized. and are now working at minimum wage jobs just to survive. 

People are not lined up to get into the medical professions, they are having tough times recruiting, people don't want to step into a high stress job for a few dollars more. 

And your right there is no snapping fingers here, that being said we seen this coming a long time ago, when wait times were just 6 hours...

Many of those retired nurse and doctors and all the other health care workers including the other staff required to run a hospital..etc. would come back if the hours were reduced, wages improved, allowed to take vacations. But Justin does not want to spend more on health care and for now more is needed before they bleed out...

Perhaps do what Germany did when it had conscription, each citizen had a choice military or health care, once accepted you had to serve 4 years any where in the country, but if you were not trained, then they would pay for your education and you had to repay I year extra service for 1 year schooling, once again it was the government that decided where or which health care place you served. Any failure meant you served the remaining time in the Military, and not in a Jammy trade either. 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Army Guy

[OftenWrong]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:34 PM, ExFlyer said:

1. The applicants qualifications need to be scrutinized and if the certifications are recognized, no problem.

2. Do not understand the point you are trying to make.

3. The medical/nursing schools are full. It takes 4 years to graduate nurses and much longer for doctorsso, there is no way of doing it faster.

No snapping of the fingers to get them quicker.

There is this unspoken thought that if the government offers more money nurses would pop out of the woodwork. Many hospitals are already offering signing bonuses and=with not much success so...??

While I agree with most of what you say, there could be better ways to promote faster throughput. The onus is on politicis to do things like this, figure it out. Not tell us some virtue-signalling BS intended for whatever good feels. Do your job, ye heathens.

Even without being a CEO of a major health network, I can come up with some suggestions. Schools full? Create more schools. Lower the tuition costs for all health care training, including mental health where they aren't always filling up classes, but where it's needed.

You see, the schools are "full" because they base it on the number of jobs available in the market. No jobs available, schools full.

Obviously it begs the question, do we have enough beds, labs and clinics to meet the needs of the population. Open more beds, labs and clinics. They in turn create demand for more trained professionals, so make with the schools.

Let's go, let's go.

....

For those who do not habla, old men like me are the problem. We have a memory, we remember.

I remember a time when our local hospital had about 600 beds, that was back in the '90's. Now it's down to 400.

ER capacity is less than before as well.

But you people don't know that.

You have no memroy

(sic)

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Develop a program where hospitals scrutinize them, like an OJT program, today on the news they said 15,000 health care workers in ontario alone ,are waiting to get scrutinized. and are now working at minimum wage jobs just to survive. 

People are not lined up to get into the medical professions, they are having tough times recruiting, people don't want to step into a high stress job for a few dollars more. 

And your right there is no snapping fingers here, that being said we seen this coming a long time ago, when wait times were just 6 hours...

Many of those retired nurse and doctors and all the other health care workers including the other staff required to run a hospital..etc. would come back if the hours were reduced, wages improved, allowed to take vacations. But Justin does not want to spend more on health care and for now more is needed before they bleed out...

Perhaps do what Germany did when it had conscription, each citizen had a choice military or health care, once accepted you had to serve 4 years any where in the country, but if you were not trained, then they would pay for your education and you had to repay I year extra service for 1 year schooling, once again it was the government that decided where or which health care place you served. Any failure meant you served the remaining time in the Military, and not in a Jammy trade either. 

 

 

Having hospitals authorize and certify medical staff would be very ominous and, I think, impossible. They don't have staff to do regular work let alone adding an on the job training burden.. Very stringent standards and procedures and processes would have to be set up to  ensure all hospitals in the  province (country) have the same procedures. This would be a nightmare as each province now has different standards. (My daughter graduated U of O  in Ontario, had exams for Ontario licence and moved to BC and had to re-write exams and still could not do as much in BC as she was doing in Ontario and now is in NWT which is completely different too).

Ontario is providing free tuition for nurses and PSW's.

Schools are full. The problem is that only about 1/2 graduate (some reports say as few as 1/3) the 4 year nurses program. Nurses, in Ontario have been losing staff for a decade. https://rnao.ca/sites/rnao-ca/files/RNAO_RN_NP_HR_Backgrounder.pdf

I would like to know where that 15,000 foreign medical people comes from.

So, more money and they would all come back??

Justin does not have health care authority. that is provincial.

Conscription in Canada? Pie in the sky at best. There is no way that would even be considered in Canada.

 

 

 

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

While I agree with most of what you say, there could be better ways to promote faster throughput. The onus is on politicis to do things like this, figure it out. Not tell us some virtue-signalling BS intended for whatever good feels. Do your job, ye heathens.

Even without being a CEO of a major health network, I can come up with some suggestions. Schools full? Create more schools. Lower the tuition costs for all health care training, including mental health where they aren't always filling up classes, but where it's needed.

You see, the schools are "full" because they base it on the number of jobs available in the market. No jobs available, schools full.

Obviously it begs the question, do we have enough beds, labs and clinics to meet the needs of the population. Open more beds, labs and clinics. They in turn create demand for more trained professionals, so make with the schools.

Let's go, let's go.

....

For those who do not habla, old men like me are the problem. We have a memory, we remember.

I remember a time when our local hospital had about 600 beds, that was back in the '90's. Now it's down to 400.

ER capacity is less than before as well.

But you people don't know that.

You have no memroy

(sic)

Schools are not a snap of the finger event. It takes years to build a school, let alone a medical school and then staffing with qualified professionals. All distant future events.

It takes 4 years to build a nurse. A very busy and hard 4 years. My daughter went thorough that. About 1/2 of her original class graduated. Some say as few as 1/3 make it to the end.

Ontario has already given free tuition for nurses and PSW's.

Old men like me also remember that we did not go to the hospital ER for cut fingers, ankle sprains, ear infections or headaches. Here in Ottawa, a 12 hour waiting list in ER because triage bumps real emergencies over those minor aches and pains.

Edited August 6, 2022 by ExFlyer

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Having hospitals authorize and certify medical staff would be very ominous and, I think, impossible. They don't have staff to do regular work let alone adding an on the job training burden.. Very stringent standards and procedures and processes would have to be set up to  ensure all hospitals in the  province (country) have the same procedures. This would be a nightmare as each province now has different standards. (My daughter graduated U of O  in Ontario, had exams for Ontario licence and moved to BC and had to re-write exams and still could not do as much in BC as she was doing in Ontario and now is in NWT which is completely different too).

Ontario is providing free tuition for nurses and PSW's.

Schools are full. The problem is that only about 1/2 graduate (some reports say as few as 1/3) the 4 year nurses program. Nurses, in Ontario have been losing staff for a decade. https://rnao.ca/sites/rnao-ca/files/RNAO_RN_NP_HR_Backgrounder.pdf

I would like to know where that 15,000 foreign medical people comes from.

So, more money and they would all come back??

Justin does not have health care authority. that is provincial.

Conscription in Canada? Pie in the sky at best. There is no way that would even be considered in Canada.

 

 

 

Quote

In Ontario, there are 13,000 foreign-educated doctors and 6,000 foreign-educated nurses who aren't working in their fields, according to numbers from HealthForceOntario that Del Duca cited in a letter to Premier Ford this week. 

Some internationally trained doctors can apply for 30-day Ontario licence to fight COVID-19 | CBC News

It's an old story , but i did read the 15,000 figure this week but can not find it right at the moment.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Some internationally trained doctors can apply for 30-day Ontario licence to fight COVID-19 | CBC News

It's an old story , but i did read the 15,000 figure this week but can not find it right at the moment.

I read it too but I am suspicious becasue I think it was the nurses union or association that said it and the motives are to embarrass government as opposed fact.

19,000 unapproved foreign medical professionals in Ontario alone seems like a huge number

Oh and, your link for allowing  30 day licences is over 2 years old. Do we know if it even happened??

Edited August 6, 2022 by ExFlyer

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Old men like me also remember that we did not go to the hospital ER for cut fingers, ankle sprains, ear infections or headaches. Here in Ottawa, a 12 hour waiting list in ER because triage bumps real emergencies over those minor aches and pains.

Here in NB they have a fairly new system, for minor medical vists, now you contact the hospital via phone and they set up a zoom vist with a nurse practitioner, and if you need a prescription then they send it to your drug store.

[RedDog]

At this point they mostly mark a country which is not mine. I don’t have time for this silly debate.

Get Alberta Out!

[I am Groot]

On 8/5/2022 at 7:37 PM, Army Guy said:

Develop a program where hospitals scrutinize them, like an OJT program, today on the news they said 15,000 health care workers in ontario alone ,are waiting to get scrutinized. and are now working at minimum wage jobs just to survive. 

And how good is their English? And where exactly did they graduate from? And is that institution any good? Is their degree even real? Do you not think a certain amount of testing is in order here?

On 8/5/2022 at 7:37 PM, Army Guy said:

People are not lined up to get into the medical professions, they are having tough times recruiting, people don't want to step into a high stress job for a few dollars more. 

This is not true. They ARE lined up to get into the medical professions. The problem has been that the medical and nursing schools can only accept as many students as the government tells them they can, and the government(s) have been restricting the numbers for many years.

On 8/5/2022 at 7:37 PM, Army Guy said:

Many of those retired nurse and doctors and all the other health care workers including the other staff required to run a hospital..etc. would come back if the hours were reduced, wages improved, allowed to take vacations

Some of them, certainly. From what I've heard from nurses their big issue is the hours. For doctors the big issue is all the paperwork. Perhaps fix these two issues.

 

[myata]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

From what I've heard from nurses their big issue is the hours. For doctors the big issue is all the paperwork. Perhaps fix these two issues.

No but the system cannot be changed. Not the schools, not hospitals, not paperwork and not hours. All that has to be exactly as in the times of Adam because always has been. CEO compensation going through the roof regardless of the services delivered, why not? So the only solution really is to bring more trained" professionals"" from places like Angola and Zimbabwe and hope (we can always hope, right?) that our great bureaucracy will be able to sort out genuine from fake ones perfectly as it always does. Yes let's hope! do we have any other options here?

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

And how good is their English? And where exactly did they graduate from? And is that institution any good? Is their degree even real? Do you not think a certain amount of testing is in order here?

This is not true. They ARE lined up to get into the medical professions. The problem has been that the medical and nursing schools can only accept as many students as the government tells them they can, and the government(s) have been restricting the numbers for many years.

Some of them, certainly. From what I've heard from nurses their big issue is the hours. For doctors the big issue is all the paperwork. Perhaps fix these two issues.

 

Quote

Develop a program where hospitals scrutinize them,

I did say the following I'm sure that hospitals could answer all of your questions, Relieving the federal government of this burden. Testing could be done any where really, and it would become very evident if a on the job training program was put in place. It's not like you can fake being a medical professional.

This has already been covered by the media, do you have a source that says they are wrong?

Again this was covered in the media, the nurses and doctors recently retired and current members, they interviewed that was they're requests, along with some others I'm sure. I'm sure they did not interview every nurse and doctor across the country so answer may very in each hospital or region.  

[myata]

Someone from Babauru comes with a medical" diploma"". How do you know what it is, by what magic? Have they done two years of intravenous injection practice under strict supervision or stitched it in a shop? What bureaucratic magic ball could tell that? It takes six years of study plus one or two of internship to be admitted to profession what "test" could replace that?

No we are dreaming mindlessly and don't care to wake up and take a look at the reality. And there will be a price for that, next time your Grandma Heaven forbid will go see these doctors. But who cares, the salaries and bonuses keep dripping in oops just doing our job. With each hole that needs to be plugged now whatever and anyhow this is becoming a scarier country. When will it begin to think and take responsibility? At what point it's not just ridiculous but scary and dangerous? Are we already past it? How would we know?

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

It's not like you can fake being a medical professional.

Really? You like to believe that, right?