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Do you agree with keeping but marking statues?


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Do you agree with keeping but marking statues?

My thinking is that in order to measure the progress in a particular area -> you need a reference point.

A vocal group on the left says to remove that reference point and start fresh. An opposite group from the right wants them up as on day 1, there is no touching them, even though some are highly controversial.

There were calls for Churchill's statues to come down in some areas too. 

In my view -> we would all be speaking German now if it wasn't for great men like Churchill. However, nobody can deny Churchill's flaws and there are many, from his imperialism which came with bigotry at the time.

So what is wrong with keeping the statues and marking them with the good and the bad?

1. "He helped defeat Nazi Germany"
2. "He expressed bigotry towards people from India".

 

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It’s a good idea but the government and police have allowed the woke mob to tear through cities with their lanterns and pitchforks vandalizing and removing the statues of people who contributed far more to society, including minorities, than the mob members have or probably ever will.  Churchill and Ryerson are being erased Soviet-style.  It’s disgusting but the electorate are asleep or scared to speak out.  The younger generation has little sense of history or context because education has been railroaded by political agendas.  My daughter knows far more about the “horrors” of Residential Schools than the historical conditions that led up to them or the founding of Canada itself.  Our society is under a woke inquisition and I’m not sure people will push back until they’re desperate and just don’t care anymore if they’re canceled.  The baby is being thrown out with the bath water and I don’t know what good will remain by the time these ideologues have scorched the Earth.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

These people were products of the world they lived in and so are we. The present inquisition will be judged by the standards of those not born yet and will probably fare no better.

Many of them haven’t faced real problems yet.  Well, they experienced Covid shutdowns, lockdowns, mandates, and restrictions.  Now they’re experiencing the economic fallout of that, which may wake them up to the meaning of economic hardship and injustice.  Our economic system and democracy is a lot more fragile than it may seem to the people who rail against it.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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To build a post natural state as Trudeau said he is doing, you need to tear down our traditions and whitewash history and turn the population against their own country. Well he is doing it.

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55 minutes ago, PIK said:

To build a post natural state as Trudeau said he is doing, you need to tear down our traditions and whitewash history and turn the population against their own country. Well he is doing it.

Canadians didn’t know what they signed up for, though I’m not sure Trudeau thought his positions through.  A few times I’ve seen expressions of fear and confusion on his face, especially when Freeland started taking over the narrative with the freezing of bank accounts and war in Ukraine.  The Manchurian Candidate looked like he was waking up.  Either that or he’s Castro’s son deliberately turning Canada into Cuba North.  All I know is someone has to keep the kid away from the levers of power before we drive off the cliff.

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those who betray our history, culture & Commander-in-Chief

will be hunted down & rooted out as the traitors that they are

the radical far left extremist Post National State will hang itself from the yardarm

these Marxist Leninists are all enemies of our Crown

God save the Queen from these Bolsheviks

bydand

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, PIK said:

To build a post natural state as Trudeau said he is doing, you need to tear down our traditions and whitewash history and turn the population against their own country. Well he is doing it.

I think Trudeau loves his country however when you get surrounded by idealists all day and almost all of them are left wing, you forget you are a Prime Minister for all. 

There is a reason why greater men like Bill Clinton saw the danger of being surrounded with only of your own and chose Dick Morris as an adviser. For people that like American politics, they know what I am talking about. He saved Bill Clinton's career. 

Edited by Contrarian
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12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Our economic system and democracy is a lot more fragile than it may seem to the people who rail against it.  

People have been railing against those who rail against these forever and yet here we all are still stumbling three steps forward for every two we stagger backward.

Seems to me that railing against our economic system and democracy makes them yield better results over time.

In any case and for what it's worth I'd say we're definitely in stagger mode for the moment.  But of course you guys never get your way in the end so....enjoy your moment - rail harder maybe that'll work. Works for us. 

:lol:

Edited by eyeball
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14 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s a good idea but the government and police have allowed the woke mob to tear through cities with their lanterns and pitchforks vandalizing and removing the statues of people who contributed far more to society, including minorities, than the mob members have or probably ever will.  Churchill and Ryerson are being erased Soviet-style.  It’s disgusting but the electorate are asleep or scared to speak out.  The younger generation has little sense of history or context because education has been railroaded by political agendas.  My daughter knows far more about the “horrors” of Residential Schools than the historical conditions that led up to them or the founding of Canada itself.  Our society is under a woke inquisition and I’m not sure people will push back until they’re desperate and just don’t care anymore if they’re canceled.  The baby is being thrown out with the bath water and I don’t know what good will remain by the time these ideologues have scorched the Earth.

Much more politically correct than I could have expressed it. let them have all the statues, they mean very little anymore anyways. It will give the left/ woke less to complain about, like draping the unknown soldiers' tomb with a Canadian/ US flag is considered discretion by our government. And yet a few years ago it was American vets who stood guard over the tomb for days after a young Reserve Cpl life was taken while guarding the tomb while our Government decided what to do.  

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10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Much more politically correct than I could have expressed it. let them have all the statues, they mean very little anymore anyways. It will give the left/ woke less to complain about, like draping the unknown soldiers' tomb with a Canadian/ US flag is considered discretion by our government. And yet a few years ago it was American vets who stood guard over the tomb for days after a young Reserve Cpl life was taken while guarding the tomb while our Government decided what to do.  

Does that include cancelling or doing away with the names of buildings, arenas, parks etc?

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Removing history is a lie.  I understand removing the images and names of diabolical figures, but most people who have made contributions in the past reflected the values and attitudes of the day, which were considered good at the time.  Erasing evidence of these figures simply because they don’t reflect what some people think this year is not a worthy pursuit.  

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10 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Does that include cancelling or doing away with the names of buildings, arenas, parks etc?

Give them all numbers, whoops sorry I forgot math is racist, not sure if that includes numbers as well, maybe use letters. or shapes. Once they have nothing to cancel maybe they will cancel themselves.   

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9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Removing history is a lie.  I understand removing the images and names of diabolical figures, but most people who have made contributions in the past reflected the values and attitudes of the day, which were considered good at the time.  Erasing evidence of these figures simply because they don’t reflect what some people think this year is not a worthy pursuit.  

Lots of lies out there, like i can legally be a cat, dog, or fire truck as a gender, Justin lies about many things, gun control, SNC, firing Raybould, khan island trip, fixing the veterans benefits, anyways the list is too long. This generation of canceled culture is or can't last. besides Canadians will sit through all of this, maybe do a little moaning then roll over and continue to take it in the bum. That's how we roll, and those that disagree, your branded criminals or extremists, racists, Nazis, pyromaniacs, or just plain retards. perhaps we should start canceling them...

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51 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Lots of lies out there, like i can legally be a cat, dog, or fire truck as a gender, Justin lies about many things, gun control, SNC, firing Raybould, khan island trip, fixing the veterans benefits, anyways the list is too long. This generation of canceled culture is or can't last. besides Canadians will sit through all of this, maybe do a little moaning then roll over and continue to take it in the bum. That's how we roll, and those that disagree, your branded criminals or extremists, racists, Nazis, pyromaniacs, or just plain retards. perhaps we should start canceling them...

Are you calling for anarchy? This is right wing radio talk meant for fear mongering so they can pocket more money while you argue with your fellow countrymen in my opinion.

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33 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Are you calling for anarchy? This is right wing radio talk meant for fear mongering so they can pocket more money while you argue with your fellow countrymen in my opinion.

I'm not calling for anything, just how i see it, are you suggesting that the Liberal government has been truthful about everything? Are you suggesting that the left including the federal government did not ref to the convoy members as extremist, racist, Nazis, or misogynistic?  or that our school system teaches that there are millions of genders without anything based on science. and that's not concerning or based in reality.  the High school here in Fredericton had students request a litter box be put into bathrooms because many students think their cats, they dress as cats, act like cats, and now want to use the bathroom like cats...sounds normal to me... These are high school students... I'd like to see the video of their job interviews ... 

Hey if you can't keep up,  change the channel, find a new home with strictly the left-wing members bet you that would be fun... Or you could debate and either teach or learn something, your choice. 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Hey if you can't keep up,  change the channel.

Why would I do that? Centrism is on the rise. I am here to recruit. Elon Musk maybe sent me. He might be the new face of our movement 😎😂

Edited by Contrarian
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On 8/4/2022 at 10:36 PM, Army Guy said:

 let them have all the statues, they mean very little anymore anyways.

they will come for your Colours next,  brother

tearing down a statue of VRI means nothing ?

throw your Colours in that fire then

I can't stop you

but they will have to kill me to come for the 48th Highlander's Colours at St Andrews

st-andrews-church-interior-2018-gmap.jpg

Edited by Dougie93
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are there any Canadians left who would fight for the Colours ?

you don't have to have served in the army

these are your Colours we defend

this is the story of your people

we are only the sentries guarding them for you

we would kill, we would die, to prevent anyone from taking them from you

that is what it means : Dileas Gu Brath

in Scots Gaelic : faithful unto Judgment Day

Cf3GNjpWsAATTlZ?format=jpg&name=4096x409

Edited by Dougie93
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On 8/5/2022 at 10:30 PM, Dougie93 said:

they will come for your Colours next,  brother

tearing down a statue of VRI means nothing ?

throw your Colours in that fire then

I can't stop you

but they will have to kill me to come for the 48th Highlander's Colours at St Andrews

st-andrews-church-interior-2018-gmap.jpg

No, they won't come for our colors, too many have already pledged their lives to defend them and  our brothers in arms... they would not have the balls to do that... The rest of those statues they can have them, they were put up by them, with their money ... Regimental statues were paid for by the regiment good luck getting close to them...there are not enough twisted lefties to even get close, without vets or serving members going on a rampage...

My colors are safe brother, as is our regimental flag that flies in my front yard.  

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On 8/5/2022 at 6:10 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Removing history is a lie.  I understand removing the images and names of diabolical figures, but most people who have made contributions in the past reflected the values and attitudes of the day, which were considered good at the time.  Erasing evidence of these figures simply because they don’t reflect what some people think this year is not a worthy pursuit.  

I think erasing them now is more about telling people today who still think those past values and attitudes are worth conserving to go piss up a rope.

History won't be going away, it'll just have a few new footnotes added to it. 

Edited by eyeball
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4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

No, they won't come for our colors, too many have already pledged their lives to defend them and  our brothers in arms... they would not have the balls to do that... The rest of those statues they can have them, they were put up by them, with their money ... Regimental statues were paid for by the regiment good luck getting close to them...there are not enough twisted lefties to even get close, without vets or serving members going on a rampage...

My colors are safe brother, as is our regimental flag that flies in my front yard.  

it's a bigger war than you think

this is a civilizational collapse across the entire Western world

these Communists are intent on completely reordering society

the lunacy coming out of DND is already beyond bizarre

it's just a matter of time before they declare all the regiments to be "racist"

vets who went on a rampage, would just be designated as "terrorists" and arrested

this is a Communist takeover in progress, and it's not going to stop at statues 

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10 hours ago, eyeball said:

I think erasing them now is more about telling people today who still think those past values and attitudes are worth conserving to go piss up a rope.

History won't be going away, it'll just have a few new footnotes added to it. 

Except that most of the people telling people to piss up a rope are the most ignorant, shallow, and selfish people you’ll meet. They’re the mob shouting guest speakers off of campuses or the posters proposing that the unvaccinated get murdered.  

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6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

it's a bigger war than you think

this is a civilizational collapse across the entire Western world

these Communists are intent on completely reordering society

the lunacy coming out of DND is already beyond bizarre

it's just a matter of time before they declare all the regiments to be "racist"

vets who went on a rampage, would just be designated as "terrorists" and arrested

this is a Communist takeover in progress, and it's not going to stop at statues 

Well you’re right.  The woke new unqualified leaders that have been thrust into their positions to “end systemic”. blah blah blah are being exposed as bewildered and incompetent.  It seems that their very mandate from the government is to remove competence Pol Pot style, because strength is triggering.  Well indeed competence is and should be a threat to the incompetent. The military is reaping what the left sowed by promoting weakness.  China and Russia just laugh.  I’m sure if there has been overseas meddling with domestic affairs, stoking identity politics is the perfect assault.  The Trudeau Liberals are the perfect Manchurian Candidates.  

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