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Diplomacy is the solution to the war in Ukraine


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Yes Russia was the invader and is the cause of the war and I fully support Ukraine. The problems we face right now are several , one problem is that eventually money will run out to support Ukraine and politicians won't care. Another problem is that more ukrainians will die as a result of not negotiating for peace. 

I have a proper diplomatic solution that will work and have a framwork that will ensure peace for the next 100 years in Ukraine/Russia and the solution can help ease tensions especially in the Donbas/Luhansk region. The conditions for the peace deal shall be this

1. Every oblast to the east of this line should hold referendums on what country they want to be a part of (image attached, the line is the black line)
2. The Russian language should granted special rights in all of eastern Ukraine as a part to ensure that the Ukrainian language and the Russian language are equally respected 
3. Put Swiss peacekeepers in Donbas, Luhansk, Kharkiv, Kherson to ensure that peace will ensure
4. Free the Ukrainian and Russian POW in Ukraine.
5. Russia shall pay Ukraine for destruction of their infrastructure 

How many people agree with me? 

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On 7/25/2022 at 3:31 PM, LiberalConservativeFighter said:

Yes Russia was the invader and is the cause of the war and I fully support Ukraine. The problems we face right now are several , one problem is that eventually money will run out to support Ukraine and politicians won't care. Another problem is that more ukrainians will die as a result of not negotiating for peace. 

I have a proper diplomatic solution that will work and have a framwork that will ensure peace for the next 100 years in Ukraine/Russia and the solution can help ease tensions especially in the Donbas/Luhansk region. The conditions for the peace deal shall be this

1. Every oblast to the east of this line should hold referendums on what country they want to be a part of (image attached, the line is the black line)
2. The Russian language should granted special rights in all of eastern Ukraine as a part to ensure that the Ukrainian language and the Russian language are equally respected 
3. Put Swiss peacekeepers in Donbas, Luhansk, Kharkiv, Kherson to ensure that peace will ensure
4. Free the Ukrainian and Russian POW in Ukraine.
5. Russia shall pay Ukraine for destruction of their infrastructure 

How many people agree with me? 

image.png

I agree. And its inevitable. So do it now and put a halt to the killing.

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I understood this war in the south.

But this war among Slavs, the so-called Special Operation, I think Putin is wrong. He could have achieved the same without bloodshed.

We in the West would have agreed - as we did when Russia took Crimea.

=====

I reckon that this is a mistaken signal between Putin and the US -Trump or Biden, whatever. Maybe the US deep state.

Obama, to his credit, let Putin take Crimea without provoking a nuclear war. 

Edited by August1991
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On 7/25/2022 at 3:31 PM, LiberalConservativeFighter said:

Yes Russia was the invader and is the cause of the war and I fully support Ukraine. The problems we face right now are several , one problem is that eventually money will run out to support Ukraine and politicians won't care. Another problem is that more ukrainians will die as a result of not negotiating for peace. 

I have a proper diplomatic solution that will work and have a framwork that will ensure peace for the next 100 years in Ukraine/Russia and the solution can help ease tensions especially in the Donbas/Luhansk region. The conditions for the peace deal shall be this

1. Every oblast to the east of this line should hold referendums on what country they want to be a part of (image attached, the line is the black line)
2. The Russian language should granted special rights in all of eastern Ukraine as a part to ensure that the Ukrainian language and the Russian language are equally respected 
3. Put Swiss peacekeepers in Donbas, Luhansk, Kharkiv, Kherson to ensure that peace will ensure
4. Free the Ukrainian and Russian POW in Ukraine.
5. Russia shall pay Ukraine for destruction of their infrastructure 

How many people agree with me? 

image.png

Advice for tourists, all the good places/cities to visit are on the left/West.

They were part of Austria-Hungary - for example, Lviv, or rather Lemberg. Beautiful city.

Donetsk? That's Russian. 

Edited by August1991
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Huh?

Eastern Prussia are the only good parts of modern Poland - except for the cities once in Austria.

Malbork, despite various wars, is still a beautiful city.

=====

The Russian parts of Poland are simply ugly - still today. Like Belarus.

 

Edited by August1991
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36 minutes ago, August1991 said:

At best, Putin is a wily, modern Catherine.

Compare this to the Chinese or worse, the Arabians.

=====

JFK and Reagan defeated the Communists.

Now, we have to bring these people into the modern world. 

wily domestically perhaps

geopolitically much less so

but the expansionism towards the Black Sea and Baltic Sea is the Catherine gameplan

it's just being executed very poorly

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The West must continue to support Ukraine financially and militarily and politically until Russia is defeated and Putin is overthrown in a coup and punished for his criminal actions. It was not possible to come to a negotiated solution with Nazi Germany and it won't be possible with Putin Russia either. The sooner Putin is defeated the better it will be.

The only diplomatic solution is for Putin to step down and put on trial for crimes against humanity, Russia cease offensive and leave Ukraine but history shows dictators and criminals like Putin will refuse to do so and ready to kill millions to save their own skin.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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Where is Biafra?

====

I prefer our previous federal PM. While I disagreed, he had a clear idea of a federal State.

And I've always liked his quote : "He would make the West Island the Danzig of the  New World."

Who was the "he"? Duplessis? Laurier? Lévesque?

Dunno.

But Trudeau`s quote makes plain why I love America.

Edited by August1991
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Putin and any future continuation of his regime after his time will never be interested in a peace settlement as is proposed here. August1991 is correct that Russia is bent on expanding west in a Catherine-like fashion, even if it be very slow and over the course of decades. Settlements are also a form of appeasement because the West does not realize en-masse that this is a long-term Catherine-like expansion and the current war is but a small episode for Russia. Even in the case of military disaster, Russia will have gained some territory and learned from their military failures in order for them to be better prepared next time.

Russia will not pay for destruction they caused in Ukraine. This is too Treaty of Versailles even if Russia would give it a glance, and would make Russia more dangerous down the line.

Any settlement will be the result of temporary Russian military exhaustion and the line will more likely be the Dnipro River resulting Ukraine being divided similarly to East and West Germany during the Cold War.

The only truly effective way to hasten Russian military exhaustion or turn the tide of the Russian attack into Ukraine would be to properly supply Ukraine with up-to-date fighter jets and weapons. The West is not doing this. Is the West so confident that they can draw out this war so as to make it profitable for their private weapons contractors, or use it to expand Western influence such as through getting Sweden and Finland to join NATO, or so afraid of nuclear weapons that they dare not fight as effectively as they easily could?

Edited by 500channelsurfer
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On 8/5/2022 at 10:56 PM, 500channelsurfer said:

Putin and any future continuation of his regime after his time will never be interested in a peace settlement as is proposed here. August1991 is correct that Russia is bent on expanding west in a Catherine-like fashion, even if it be very slow and over the course of decades. Settlements are also a form of appeasement because the West does not realize en-masse that this is a long-term Catherine-like expansion and the current war is but a small episode for Russia. Even in the case of military disaster, Russia will have gained some territory and learned from their military failures in order for them to be better prepared next time.

Russia will not pay for destruction they caused in Ukraine....

Define "Ukraine" - U Krainia - at the border.

=====

Lvov? It was once Lemberg - like Montreal and Calcutta today - cities where unilingual people of different languages live together in peace.

To my knowledge, Putin has no desire to make Lemberg part of Russia.

Edited by August1991
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18 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Define "Ukraine" - U Krainia - at the border.

=====

Lvov? It was once Lemberg - like Montreal and Calcutta today - cities where unilingual people of different languages live together in peace.

To my knowledge, Putin has no desire to make Lemberg part of Russia.

I have a more open mind to the concept of the definition of 'Ukraine' than CITIZEN_2015 or than the typical West's definition of the borders established of the Ukrainian independent state that became in 1991 upon the end of the Soviet Union.

I do not choose to define Ukraine by the linguistic meaning or origins of the word.

A best definition would be that of the territory inhabited by those identifying primarily as Ukrainian. While very 20th century and nationalistic, this definition best leads to an understanding that enables a nation-state capable of uniting its population under one agreed-upon government capable of defining its and controlling the territory within. 

Of course regions of the 1991-defined borders of Ukraine included Crimea and Polish populations, as well as regions in the east where identification as Russian was common. 

Over the longer-term, Russia is a country that has historical tendencies to invade and dominate not only the 1991-defined area of Ukraine, but many other areas of Eastern Europe. If we are going to get into Putin's longer-term ambitions, I would be of the belief that he does intend for Russia to again rule over territories in Eastern Europe that left the Soviet Union in 1991.

Europe of course being historically a continent of ever-changing borders, migrations and rising and falling empires.

 

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43 minutes ago, 500channelsurfer said:

...

I do not choose to define Ukraine by the linguistic meaning or origins of the word.

'''

 

Bingo.

I gotta love Pierre Trudeau.

======

On an entirely topic, why did this war start?

IMHO, this is a disaster caused by western diplomacy. Our Western diplomats - the MSM - made this war possible. It could have been avoided.

Heck, these idiots could start a nuclear war.

Edited by August1991
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On 8/7/2022 at 12:37 AM, August1991 said:

Bingo.

I gotta love Pierre Trudeau.

======

On an entirely topic, why did this war start?

IMHO, this is a disaster caused by western diplomacy. Our Western diplomats - the MSM - made this war possible. It could have been avoided.

Heck, these idiots could start a nuclear war.

Can you please further explain the Pierre Trudeau reference so there is no confusion?

There are many causes of this war: NATO and EU encroachment into former Soviet states, Putin unable mentally to leave the Cold War behind, Putin obsession with having pro-Kremlin governments in former Soviet states, historical Russian expansionism into Eastern Europe, West opting not to properly supply Ukrainian military, Ukraine being historically Eastern and not Western European leading to West hesitancy to expand eastward, essentially non-response of West when Russia invaded Crimea, list could go on but these are the major ones.

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On 8/4/2022 at 9:16 PM, August1991 said:

Define "ukraine".

=====

In Canada, I can define Acadian - sort of.

In Europe, it is more problematic to define "ukrainia" - let alone galicia or pomerania. 

Ukraine is well defined by internationally recognized borders.  This was never in dispute.  Until Russia decided so.  
 

So who gets to define Ukraine…. Putin?  Or Ukrainians?

Edited by TreeBeard
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On 8/8/2022 at 6:07 PM, TreeBeard said:

Ukraine is well defined by internationally recognized borders.  This was never in dispute.  Until Russia decided so.  
 

So who gets to define Ukraine…. Putin?  Or Ukrainians?

Woodrow Wilson "defined" Ukraine.

To be progressive, these foreigners from abroad are now known in English as "Ukrainian".

=====

Putin and so-called Ukrainians are doing what Trudeau Snr avoided for Canada.

In Canada, we get along.

This was the main idea of Trudeau Snr - a federal state - counterweights.

Edited by August1991
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