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Charest, Poilievre & Maxime Bernier


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What happens?

I happen to prefer Charest. I have a vote and he's my first choice. But if Poilievre wins, I can live with that.

But what about Bernier?

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One reason that I prefer Charest is that he'll manage to get along with Bernier.

Aside from being a very bad writer, Margaret Atwood doesn't understand Canada. Canada isn't about Survival: it's about compromise.

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In the grand scheme of things, Canada is simply another country on the map. A survivor. Well, Bulgaria and Russia survived. China survived.

What makes Canadians and our civilised society remarkable is not our survival; it is our ability to compromise.

We somehow get along.  

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3 hours ago, August1991 said:

What happens?

I happen to prefer Charest. I have a vote and he's my first choice. But if Poilievre wins, I can live with that.

But what about Bernier?

=====

One reason that I prefer Charest is that he'll manage to get along with Bernier.

Aside from being a very bad writer, Margaret Atwood doesn't understand Canada. Canada isn't about Survival: it's about compromise.

Whether Charest or Poilievre wins, the winner will have to recognize and give voice to the supporters of the losing candidate.  I personally support Poilievre, but if he wins he would be wise to give Charest a role.  I think he’d be great as Minister of International Affairs or Trade or Finance.  I think Lewis would be a strong Deputy PM.  

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19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Whether Charest or Poilievre wins, the winner will have to recognize and give voice to the supporters of the losing candidate.  I personally support Poilievre, but if he wins he would be wise to give Charest a role.  I think he’d be great as Minister of International Affairs or Trade or Finance.  I think Lewis would be a strong Deputy PM.  

if a died in the wool Liberal elite like Jean Charest is in the cabinet

that indicates that there will be no significant change to the status quo

elections really don't matter

nothing will change in Canada until the population suffers the consequences of bad governance

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7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

if a died in the wool Liberal elite like Jean Charest is in the cabinet

that indicates that there will be no significant change to the status quo

elections really don't matter

nothing will change in Canada until the population suffers the consequences of bad governance

You’re probably right.  In terms of Machiavellian Realpolitik I believe you keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  Send Charest on international ribbon cutting nonsense as Minister of International Affairs but meanwhile the PMO can pull Canada out of international obligations and kick members of the WEF and other totalitarian global elitist organizations out of caucus. Basically give the milquetoasts make-work projects while the serious people govern.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re probably right.  In terms of Machiavellian Realpolitik I believe you keep your friends close and your enemies closer. 

the result being that the Conservatives are really just the other Liberal party

their role is simply to keep the seats warm and do nothing

until the official Liberal Party comes back and starts driving everything to the far left again

 

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50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is essential.  Those here who paint our politics in absolutes, and hold personal hatred for politicians like Trudeau are missing the point.

Really? Compromise is essential?

Gee whiz Mike...have you told Pixie-Dust this?

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12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the result being that the Conservatives are really just the other Liberal party

their role is simply to keep the seats warm and do nothing

until the official Liberal Party comes back and starts driving everything to the far left again

 

Unless the CPC has a conservative leader, I have no interest in that party.   Charest, Brown, and their ilk are status quo.  When I see all the woke crap driving our organization, it’s clear that Doug Ford’s government is largely in the same Liberal camp.  Canadians are scared of conservatives.  Communist mentality: Take care of me so I don’t have to think for myself and self-actualize.  Claim victimhood to win the handout.  

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21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Unless the CPC has a conservative leader, I have no interest in that party.   Charest, Brown, and their ilk are status quo.  When I see all the woke crap driving our organization, it’s clear that Doug Ford’s government is largely in the same Liberal camp.  Canadians are scared of conservatives.  Communist mentality: Take care of me so I don’t have to think for myself and self-actualize.  Claim victimhood to win the handout.  

it all really comes back to the money printing

the central bank printing money to buy the government bonds to keep the interest rates at net negative

the government has a credit card to buy votes, without any limits

this leads to moral hazard, which is the malaise we are in now

the limiting factor is of course inflation

and with the massive debts accrued now, raising the interest rates to contain it will also incite a crisis

once governments are no longer able to print money to bribe the population

only then will there be significant political change

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When it comes to governing, the terms Liberal or Conservative are not nearly as important as administrative ability. A government needs to be pragmatic. It is fallacy to believe some ideology has all the answers. We need a leader with proven experience in governing. Charest fits that description. 

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4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

When it comes to governing, the terms Liberal or Conservative are not nearly as important as administrative ability. A government needs to be pragmatic. It is fallacy to believe some ideology has all the answers. We need a leader with proven experience in governing. Charest fits that description. 

Charest was the last really strong MP from the Mulroney PC era.  He did a good job defending federalism in Quebec and reigned in that province’s overspending and kowtowing to the unions.  However, his head is still in that era, a time that has passed.  Now it’s an all out battle to protect democratic freedoms and free markets from internationalist control freaks.  It’s Chinese-style totalitarian, surveillance capitalism backed by A.I. and social credit systems versus free market democracy.  The Canadian Liberal-NDP alliance and the US Democrats are in the former camp.  The Canadian Conservative Party may be too if it has another Liberal woke-green leader.

We can’t afford another Trudeau.  Poilievre wants Canada to be the freest country in the world, therefore he has my support. Canada has to stop being a beta Manchurian Candidate for China-led global projects. Europe is a write off.  It’s down to Britain and a handful of US states holding the fort for true liberal-democracy. The NDP-Liberals are self-serving elitist hypocrites. Biden is asleep and overrun by the radical left in his party. Trudeau is also out to lunch.  We need smart leaders who serve Canadian interests.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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A government is more than one person. It was the government that put together the all party team, including Provincial governments, to mitigate the Americans assault on NAFTA. It was the government and all parties, that managed the response to a deadly pandemic that saved tens of thousands of lives in Canada while the US suffered the greatest catastrophe in their history. Mr. O'Toole would have formed a government that would have performed a bit better, but we have to give credit where credit is due. 

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s Chinese-style totalitarian, surveillance capitalism backed by A.I. and social credit systems versus free market democracy.

And who is the Social Credit candidate for the CPC leadership? Pierre Poillievre. Anyone who has lived under Social Credit knows it for what it is. It is the downfall of the Conservative party and free enterprise.

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9 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

A government is more than one person. It was the government that put together the all party team, including Provincial governments, to mitigate the Americans assault on NAFTA. It was the government and all parties, that managed the response to a deadly pandemic that saved tens of thousands of lives in Canada while the US suffered the greatest catastrophe in their history.  

Well said.

Trudeau and Ford were not equipped to deal with these things, no one could be.  But despite their ideological differences, they were focused on a goal and knew that the smart people behind the scenes were giving them the best advice they could.

Part of this recent trend of putting everything on the leader reflects a lack of public understanding of how many smart people work on these things.

It could always be much better, but look at other jurisdictions to see that it could be much worse.

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On 7/25/2022 at 5:59 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

When it comes to governing, the terms Liberal or Conservative are not nearly as important as administrative ability. A government needs to be pragmatic. It is fallacy to believe some ideology has all the answers. We need a leader with proven experience in governing. Charest fits that description. 

Just a question, how did we end up with Justin, if the main job requirement needed to be experienced. Don't get me wrong I agree strongly that a leader should have a whole slew of characteristics, such as charisma, experience, strong leadership abilities, Job knowledge, initiative, the ability to listen, strong problem-solving skills, and many more. 

Charest does not have all of those, He did not score high in the debates, we have already tried the center or left of the center direction and we did not do so well. that being said we have also seen Mad MAX's approach of way right did not work for him as well, we need center right if there is a thing. 

My choice has already been kicked out.

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On 7/26/2022 at 9:57 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Part of this recent trend of putting everything on the leader reflects a lack of public understanding of how many smart people work on these things.

It could always be much better, but look at other jurisdictions to see that it could be much worse.

It is not a recent trend to blame the leader, it has always been the leader's reasonability for the success or failure of every project they take on. Leaders are quick to take credit for success, so what is wrong with holding the leader responsible for the failures, happens in the corporate world, NHL, Military, and every other organization all the time.

Success is not measured by how well you did against those around you..."Well, at least we did better than Johnny". Success should be measured by, how many of the objectives did we meet on this particle issue. 

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3 hours ago, sharkman said:

Stephen Harper, the best PM we’ve had since Mulroney, recently endorsed Poileivre.  That’s quite an endorsement, and will single handedly put him over the top.

Harper, Chrétien, and Mulroney were the best PM’s in my lifetime, I think.  Mulroney overspent and was a bit too much of a corporate insider, but he was a great statesman and was strong on defeating apartheid, improving the environment, and opening doors to the Canadian perspective in Washington.

Poilievre is smart and tough.  He’s not really a social conservative but he supports free speech even when it’s unpopular.  He upholds Charter rights and free markets, including resource development.  He’ll scrap the carbon tax and bring the best business minds to the table supporting environmental policy that doesn’t squeeze consumers. hopefully.

He will have his flaws.  Harper could be cold, but he had the best middle class policies.  If Poilievre keeps things light and positive and folksy, he’ll strike the right chords I think.  Chrétien was good that way: approachable, down to earth, and seeming to speak to all Canadians.  Ford has done some of that in Ontario with success.

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On 7/25/2022 at 9:04 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Whether Charest or Poilievre wins, the winner will have to recognize and give voice to the supporters of the losing candidate.  I personally support Poilievre, but if he wins he would be wise to give Charest a role.  I think he’d be great as Minister of International Affairs or Trade or Finance.  I think Lewis would be a strong Deputy PM.  

More important, if Charest wins, he must give Poilievre a prime place on the front bench.

Moreover, every government needs people like Poilievre and Bernier in caucus if not cabinet.

Who said: "It is better if they piss out rather than in... "

======

Charest created the first cabinet with 50 men/50 women.  I think that he gets the idea.

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22 minutes ago, August1991 said:

More important, if Charest wins, he must give Poilievre a prime place on the front bench.

Moreover, every government needs people like Poilievre and Bernier in caucus if not cabinet.

Who said: "It is better if they piss out rather than in... "

======

Charest created the first cabinet with 50 men/50 women.  I think that he gets the idea.

if the Conservatives run Charest, I think they will lose

the guy is a dinosaur, actual conservatives wont bother to vote for him

Liberals aren't really going to vote for the Conservatives in great numbers

running Charest could save Trudeau's bacon

running Charest is just another Prog Con shooting themselves in the foot scenario

he's a degenerate aged out version of Erin O'tool

if the Cons run Charest

that is simply proof that the Liberals actually run the Cons as a fake opposition

there is no more repulsive demoralizing candidate to conservatives than Charest

if Charest wins, then you know the fix was in

Edited by Dougie93
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22 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

if the Conservatives run Charest, I think they will lose

....

So if the Conservatives run Poilievre, you think they'll win?

====

In 1896, the federal Liberals ran a Catholic Francophone who won. In his first Cabinet, Laurier was the only Franco/Catholic - As Laurier said, I paraphrase, "I represent French Canada."

Dougie93,

You miss my point.

Canada is a country where people cross voting lines.

Before it was about religion. Now, it's about gender and where you drink coffee.

Edited by August1991
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5 minutes ago, August1991 said:

So if the Conservatives run Poilievre, you think they'll win?

I think they have a shot, if they actually get conservatives fired up to vote

like I haven't bothered to vote in years, since there's no actual conservatives to vote for

if they keep running Liberals as leader, they will just keep suppressing the conservative vote

that being said, if Poilievre did win, he'd quickly be exposed for vastly overpromising

he's saying things like he is going to "restore sound money" in Canada ?

yeah, okay, sure

let's just consider how pie in the sky that is

that would require pegging the dollar to gold, which would require having the gold to issue in return for dollars

never mind that it's like promising that Canada will build a space program to Mars

but in restoring sound money, the debt based economy we have now would collapse into a depression

so Poilievre is full of shit, just another Stephen Harper who talks a big game, then adopts the Liberals platform

but I still might vote for him, just to throw Zeitgeist a bone

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thing about Canada

Canadians have not yet suffered the kind of blows which incited the MAGA movement in America

Canada did not lose the Iraq War badly

Canada escaped the 2008 financial crisis relatively unscathed

Canada has managed to keep the jig going for now

you're not going to get an actual revolt against the Canadian political elites

until Canadians suffer the brutal consequences of elite policy maker money printing

it's not a matter of if, only a matter of when, there is no soft landing

that being said, exactly when is hard to predict

the inflation is just arriving in force now

but it's not necessarily going to be a full on crisis by 2025

if it is, then the Liberals & NDP will get thrown out in a landslide

but if it is still just simmering without boiling over

and the Cons run another Liberal against the Liberals

then Trudeau might just survive

like they are not really going to raise interest rates significantly

that would collapse the stock market, the real estate market, and incite a brutal recession

they will go back to easing, they will keep printing money and inflating the bubbles

and in the near term, those bubbles probably do have room to grow yet

if I had to guess a date for the shit to really hit the fan totally out of control of the central banks ?

how about October 29th 2029 ?

it's actually a Monday this time

Black Monday it is then

Edited by Dougie93
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On 7/27/2022 at 7:07 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Harper, Chrétien, and Mulroney were the best PM’s in my lifetime, I think.  Mulroney overspent and was a bit too much of a corporate insider, but he was a great statesman and was strong on defeating apartheid, improving the environment, and opening doors to the Canadian perspective in Washington.

Poilievre is smart and tough.  He’s not really a social conservative but he supports free speech even when it’s unpopular.  He upholds Charter rights and free markets, including resource development.  He’ll scrap the carbon tax and bring the best business minds to the table supporting environmental policy that doesn’t squeeze consumers. hopefully.

He will have his flaws.  Harper could be cold, but he had the best middle class policies.  If Poilievre keeps things light and positive and folksy, he’ll strike the right chords I think.  Chrétien was good that way: approachable, down to earth, and seeming to speak to all Canadians.  Ford has done some of that in Ontario with success.

Amazing description of federal politicians.

My Nfld father liked Truman. In 1978, he took me to see Trudeau Snr in person. 

====

I still wonder whether personal contact matters.

 

 

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On 7/27/2022 at 7:07 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Harper, Chrétien, and Mulroney were the best PM’s in my lifetime, I think.

 

they were all terrible

there is no such thing as a good Canadian PM

the role of Canadian PM is inherently corrupting

because Canadian Confederation is an intently corrupt enterprise in of itself

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