myata Posted July 5, 2022 Report Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) Check this story. So far it caused resignations of at least three cabinet ministers within days, and a number of functionaries and party officials. The issue is ridiculously minor so that we here likely wouldn't even hear about such: an appointment of a minor party official, a deputy whip. Within days, the story of earlier sex misconduct allegations hit the media and the "who knew what" game began. Here we don't need to know about such matters. Government whatever "prerogative" protects all that can be known and no one is talking - they know better that a place at the trough is way more valuable than any notion or tradition of integrity. After a little SNC-Liberal embarrassment a real triffle, only alleged interference with independent justice office of which we still know as little as is minimally credible thanks to a slew of self-appointed rules and prerogatives, employee-representatives learned their lesson well and nothing like that happened on unprecedented invocation of emergency powers for basically, no reason unless just watch would count as such. And this is why this country is nothing like UK, the comparisons based on paper imitation are worthless and ridiculous. They have some ingrained values and traditions and we have nothing, just none. No formal checks and controls; and no internal ones either. So Queen won't help us. Who will, then? Edited July 5, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 Who is comparing? Your diatribe is so scattered, it makes no sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 37 ministers and party officials resigned so far in what began as a minor appointment scandal we wouldn't even know about. We had an episode of an alleged political interference with an independent officer of justice, a major issue if confirmed (what we cannot know, due to prerogatives) and transgression against democracy. No please never point fingers, tell me this is roughly same system so it has to be working, no it's not. Not even close. Over the years weak, mostly formal and preposterous checks have worn out, the tradition of integrity, service to the public as opposed to partisan interests and the trough maybe was words mostly form day one, and by now we have none of the either. Let's see how it's going to work out. It's going to work out somehow, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 22 hours ago, myata said: And this is why this country is nothing like UK, the comparisons based on paper imitation are worthless and ridiculous. They have some ingrained values and traditions and we have nothing, just none. No formal checks and controls; and no internal ones either. So Queen won't help us. Who will, then? there is nothing stopping Canadian MP's from voting against the PM, with their feet or otherwise the issue is only cultural Canada is a land of cowards, sycophants, cronies & traitors, by choice no oath to HM is binding them to that, quite the opposite 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Voting with their feet is a philosophical difference with the Party, not the PM. And the PM does not put Bills forward in Parliament, so the PM's party can't "vote against him". They can vote nay in Caucus and he would have to resign leadership or in a Party leadership review. In a free vote, they can vote their own even if the PM supports otherwise. I enough of the PMs party voted against or abstain over a major issue, it would be non-confidence and trigger an election. Why not just drive a big truck, honk loud and pretend the GG or Queen can order him out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, herbie said: In a free vote, they can vote their own even if the PM supports otherwise. I enough of the PMs party voted against or abstain over a major issue, it would be non-confidence and trigger an election. So many ifs, twists, hooks and crooks and we still want to call it a democracy. OK sure. A word is only a word it will endure anything. Even Putins of the world can claim democracy. What is obvious already though is that it behaves very little or even nothing like democracies we know. It doesn't represent the country, some alternate impossibly contorted projection of it; its supposed "representatives" cannot vote their will and that of their constituents unless allowed by party handlers. It has no independent checks on governments. And its been a long time since it showed any notion of internal integrity - that requires a tradition and concept of independent mind and standing that isn't there. So what does it have of a democracy still? A ritual? Talking heads show? Anything else? Edited July 7, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 This country's system is truly unique - maybe with Australia and India, not sure but no other analogs. It likes to see and position itself as an advanced modern democracy. And yet, nowhere else do you know, except the third world would you find governments that are allowed so much, with so few if any checks and accountability? The founding fathers of American democracy thought about a democracy that would last, about checks and balances, independent and separated power. We remember how UK police investigated PM office for violations of quarantine rules. Has it even happened, even once in this country? We just had a scandal of political interference with an independent justice office, that's Nicaragua stuff and who cared to notice? It appears that in Canada the thought went into how to create a system that could rule for as long as possible with as few checks and accountability as at all imaginable and the least credible. And look, it worked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) Just read this. Isn't it like, the epitome, a succinct and final summary? "Unclear", so done. Investigation can be closed, hands washed salaries, benefits yada rolling. Keep going. This is what we do in a democracy, honestly. What? RCMP documents show that the force believed there were reasonable grounds to charge Mr. Trudeau with fraud for accepting a free holiday from someone doing business with the government. But, in documents released to the Conservatives under access to information law, the Mounties said that “it is unclear whether Mr. Trudeau can be prosecuted under Section 121(1)(c) of the Criminal Code, since the section has a provision which allows officials to accept benefits from individuals with government dealings, provided the official has the written consent of the head of their branch of government.” Because Mr. Trudeau is the head of the government, the RCMP said it was unclear whether he had the authority to grant himself permission to accept the gift. Edited July 7, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, myata said: which allows officials to accept benefits from individuals with government dealings Why "benefits", though? Why not "small gifts" not exceeding clearly defined amount? Why such a vague stretchy definition, by 6 times median wage supposedly legal experts? Is it only just another innocent oversight? Why is this whole system made, no I cannot avoid the conclusion, intentionally and deliberately from day one as one giant branching and interconnected conflict of interest? The state of democracy in the country should be a grave concern for the society. And if it couldn't care less, the trajectory is all set. Queen won't be of help here and I doubt anything could. Edited July 7, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Last minute: UK's PM has resigned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDog Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 CanaDUH is hopelessly lost but it works well for OntariOWE and PAYbec. Get Alberta Out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, RedDog said: CanaDUH is hopelessly lost but it works well for OntariOWE and PAYbec. Get Alberta Out! Alber-DUH ManitoBALLS British CoLOSERbia and ... and... and... Why do you wear a cowboy hat when you live in a condo ? Do you take it off in the elevator ? I met a guy once who had lived in 20 countries - all over Asia and Europe. In the end he chose Canada because it was "right in the middle". Our value is we give you people to fight with and provinces you can add dumb names to. You are welcome. Signed OntariAWESOME... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, RedDog said: but it works well for OntariOWE United Empire Loyalists Orangemen of Upper Canada Guardians of Confederation more British than the British themselves Victoria Regina Imperatrix God save the Queen Edited July 7, 2022 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 5 hours ago, myata said: Last minute: UK's PM has resigned. Yes, and the dame thing can happen here IF the PM lost support of his cabinet. Unfortunately for the whiners here, he has the full support of it. So aside from the ways I listed, the only other way to get rid of the PM is if he dies in office, retires or loses the next election which seems highly unlikely if the CPC keeps listening to these Russian Trolls and Trumptards pushing it farther to the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 34 minutes ago, herbie said: can happen here IF Can, like "never"? Holiday scandal, SNC-Liberal scandal, absolutely unwarranted emergency powers what could happen, any idea cause my imagination is failing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Here's the thing though: Canada's political system is a careful imitation of a democratic system. Yes right, like in a children's book pictures look pretty and glossy but none works as it should. Only pretty pictures in a color me book. Printed independent justice cannot investigate anyone of importance; printed employee-representatives, keep anyone to account or decide anything and so on. A pretty pantomime that somehow managed to survive unchanged and never challenged in the backwaters of the world for close to two centuries. In marine biology there's that crab that managed the trick for some millions of years, only one species though. Curious. Let's see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Banana Posted July 8, 2022 Report Share Posted July 8, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2022 The results are widely different different though. And this indeed illustrates the point: a democracy that is mostly in the name and resemblance will not work for the society. The first bells have been ringing for a while; just give it time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 Look, your Justin hatred just pointed out two things petty. He got re-elected after the SNC scandal so that was minor to most people, and far more people were pissed at him for taking so fucking long to enact the Emergency powers than are pissed about it. And feel free to point out a country that's more democratic. Certainly isn't the one owned lock stock and barrel by billionaires that openly flaunt their power. And we get a PM with so little personal power he/she would be the Diet Pepsi of demagogues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 8 hours ago, herbie said: He got re-elected after the SNC scandal so that was minor to most people, and far more people were pissed at him for taking so fucking long to enact the Emergency powers than are pissed about it. Absolutely that speaks for the actual state of democracy in the country more and better than any ratings. Alleged political interference with independent justice office "minor" and insignificant. OK it's a normal, regular state of affairs in third world democracies". Emergency powers invoked for no reason and without any checks? Haha. What can be added to this picture? What would have more meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 Actually it speaks for the minds of the voters, not democracy in the least. Asking to use the law they specifically passed for such cases (SNC), the law that's there when other agencies won't act (convidiots) or what kind of guns got used in a crime can barely be considered as interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legato Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, herbie said: Actually it speaks for the minds of the voters, not democracy in the least. Asking to use the law they specifically passed for such cases (SNC), the law that's there when other agencies won't act (convidiots) or what kind of guns got used in a crime can barely be considered as interference. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, herbie said: they specifically passed for such cases They who? Those same who benefit from them? Like allowed vague "benefits" in the corruption law instead of clearly defined gifts, what allowed or not. No for just an innocent coincidence it wouldn't be statistically probable. Edited July 9, 2022 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 OMG just go back to the same thing? The point is, the majority of voters didn't see it as the big issue that you do or JT would have lost the election. Democracy isn't your opinion, it's the majority's opinion and obviously they don't share yours. Learn what democracy is and how gov't works or you sound like those convoy imbeciles whining about their freedumb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 35 minutes ago, herbie said: Democracy isn't your opinion, it's the majority's opinion and obviously they don't share yours. You think a majority means democracy? Putin has majority. Want to try again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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