Conservative Party can run on proportional representation reform

[Queenmandy85]

34 minutes ago, myata said:

passport problem due to pandemics for the next unknown number of years no one is available please call another time? Do they have it in Norway too?

Actually, they had that on today's NRK.

[myata]

27 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Actually, they had that on today's NRK.

Actually they do, wow. At least in some areas, we are on par!

[myata]

Every time governments touch a serious, non trivial problem, one of the following happens:

a mediocre if not pathetic imitation of the best practice (e.g. there's no stable free online tax solution yes in this century - every time you've got to scramble what's available and no I'm not paying for this "service" a cent out of principle). For pathetic see so called "contact tracing" app, with still unknown price tag - to us who else?

a botched attempt or an outright failure ("gun registry")

nothing, or else another long term, permanent budget article (public health care, in a state of permanent semi-crisis).

Even with trivial, maintenance projects like upgrading payroll system its not unusual to get a lasting disaster (Phoenix system). Are we sure that whatever new can be tried will have to be worse?

[eyeball]

22 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So who oversees the bureaucracy? Then you have to oversee the overseers. You are saying what you don't want. What mechanism do you propose to provide that transparency and accountability?

Cameras, microphones, contact tracing.

Otherwise just sit back and enjoy civilization's continuing spiral into a deep lasting interregnum.  It's nature's way.

[Queenmandy85]

31 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Cameras, microphones, contact tracing.

So, if a cabinet minister wants to visit the bog, having all that recorded is appropriate? What about holidays at the cabin with her children?  What is your solution for the fact that no one will accept that invasion of privacy, so you will not have a government? Yzer will be jumping for joy.

[Queenmandy85]

The last time the issue of electoral reform, the CPC strongly favoured FPTP. Why would they suddenly want a system that would lock them out of government permanently? PR only benifits the NDP, which is why they promoted it to overcome the fact that nobody wants them in the federal government.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Queenmandy85

[myata]

5 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Why would they suddenly want a system that would lock them out of government

In other words, lock them out of this trough that benefited them (a party) since times immemorial? Wait and we thought it was about the country, its needs, how it will progress in the modern age and challenges? Silly. How naive. Its so much simpler as vouched here by QM: I have a place at this trough. For all I know, forever. Why would I want anything else?

[eyeball]

44 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

So, if a cabinet minister wants to visit the bog, having all that recorded is appropriate? What about holidays at the cabin with her children?  What is your solution for the fact that no one will accept that invasion of privacy, so you will not have a government? Yzer will be jumping for joy.

In guess you need to be a participant in system where you're monitored to appreciate it can be done while respecting privacy.

I'm not under any illusions about the difficulty of doing this which is why I submit only a political party that volunteers to submit to monitoring will make it possible.

Failing that I don't see any way forward. We are in a very hopeless dangerous situation.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, myata said:

In other words, lock them out of this trough that benefited them (a party) since times immemorial? Wait and we thought it was about the country, its needs, how it will progress in the modern age and challenges? Silly. How naive. Its so much simpler as vouched here by QM: I have a place at this trough. For all I know, forever. Why would I want anything else?

The purpose of a political party is to win elections. 

[myata]

9 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The purpose of a political party is to win elections.

Something missing here, conveniently. Did it suppose to include fair competition in an open process? Or just about anything goes to win elections?

Imagine a sports tournament where your opponent has to "compete" with an arm tied and a lead ball attached? Why would anybody be interested?

Edited June 23, 2022 by myata

[Queenmandy85]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Failing that I don't see any way forward. We are in a very hopeless dangerous situation.

The way forward is to get to know your candidates before you nominate them. A major cause of the decline in political participation is the lack of foundation in preparing teachers. We have teachers who are certified without a grounding in politics, geography, math, physics and chemistry.

[Queenmandy85]

Just now, myata said:

Something missing here, conveniently. Did it suppose to include fair competition in an open process? Or just about anything goes to win elections?

There are rules, just like in any sport. The most important rule is it is not whether you win or lose, it is how you play the game.

[eyeball]

Just now, Queenmandy85 said:

The way forward is to get to know your candidates before you nominate them. A major cause of the decline in political participation is the lack of foundation in preparing teachers. We have teachers who are certified without a grounding in politics, geography, math, physics and chemistry.

It's entirely too late for that.

What's even worse than public distrust in government is that governments don't trust us.

The Tower of Babel had it easy, at least they tried to cooperate.

[myata]

57 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

There are rules, just like in any sport.

It would be entirely frivolous to call such events "sport". Though of course one can use any words not like they can object the meaning or nonsense they cover. Same with "democracy" by the way.

[Queenmandy85]

12 minutes ago, myata said:

Though of course one can use any words not like they can object the meaning or nonsense they cover. Same with "democracy" by the way.

Could you provide English sub-titles? I don't understand.

[Queenmandy85]

13 minutes ago, myata said:

It would be entirely frivolous to call such events "sport".

If the Argos beat the Elks in the Grey Cup, does the world really change? It is the same in politics. If the Grits beat the CPC in a Federal election, will they govern that much differently that your life changes significantly? A Cabinet Minister considers a policy direction and runs it by the Deputy Minister and her staff. They advise the minister on the pros and cons of the policy and suggest changes to avoid some of the pitfalls. That is why we have a professional civil service. They are there to provide the government with advice. Sometimes you have a Minister like Walter Gordon who thinks he knows better and ignores the professionals and their years of experience. How long did he last? 3 months, maybe 6 months?

[myata]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

If the Grits beat the CPC in a Federal election

You are naive beyond belief (literally). What if your "tournament" included exactly two teems with others taken out by little peculiarities of the "fair" process and one of them claimed "fair victory" regularly and all the time. How long would you be watching it before tuning out for good? Good luck selling it as something cool or even worthy of any attention.

Edited June 23, 2022 by myata

[Queenmandy85]

21 minutes ago, myata said:

You are naive beyond belief (literally). What if your "tournament" included exactly two teems with others taken out by little peculiarities of the "fair" process and one of them claimed "fair victory" regularly and all the time. How long would you be watching it before tuning out for good? Good luck selling it as something cool or even worthy of any attention.

Politics is a paricipation sport. My reference to the CFL was not the best example. I shold have used a participation sport like soccer. We play sports for the joy of the competition. We campaign in elections because it is fun. It is our national sport. The Liberals have won so many times, they are called "the Natural Governing Party." That doesn't detract from the experience of the game. You get to meet wonderful people. When I lived in Whitehorse, I knocked on hundreds of doors for Erik Nielsen.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Politics is a paricipation sport.

You said it: sport, entertainment. It's not real. The rules are a joke. Openness and fairness, absent. I would say go along for a ride for as long as it last because we know that bread and circuses story will not go forever. Too bad for us who seem to care only about circuses, but that bill is coming. Not a chance of ducking it, sooner or later.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, myata said:

The rules are a joke. Openness and fairness, absent.

Could you elaborate? The rules around nominations and elections are pretty strict and contravention of some of them can land you in jail. Where is tha absence of openess and fairness?

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Where is tha absence of openess and fairness?

Wherever the public is unable to see or hear the government's business, which is to say our business, that is conducted in closed chambers.

Edited June 24, 2022 by eyeball

[Queenmandy85]

20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Wherever the public is unable to see or hear the government's business, which is to say our business, that is conducted in closed chambers.

How far would you take that? For instance, Cabinet meetings are highly classified. The security committees deal with classified information. There are many instances where confidentiality is vital. Without it, nothing would get done. The way to protect our interests is by electing people of integrity. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

How far would you take that? For instance, Cabinet meetings are highly classified. The security committees deal with classified information.

As they should continue to.  Meetings with fisheries ministers to discuss fish allocations is not a security issue.

Put it this way, in my world the Freedom of Information Act would mandate that governments need to apply to have information classified instead of simply pleading confidentiality.

Quote

There are many instances where confidentiality is vital. Without it, nothing would get done.

I believe you're grossly over-exaggerating the number if instances. AFAIK there's little that should be allowed to proceed without near total public awareness of everything occurring within or impacting on its domain.

I'd take steps that go at least as far as the steps the government is willing to go with me which is to assign a human observer to monitor my activities if I'm found to be out of compliance with monitoring protocols.  That's something I would have to pay for out of pocket I might add.

Edited June 24, 2022 by eyeball

[-TSS-]

It's useless to calculate how the election result would look like had there been PR as people would vote differntly based on the electoral system. 

[myata]

47 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

It's useless to calculate how the election result would look like had there been PR as people would vote differntly based on the electoral system

Exactly. You have different choices, you make them differently. There's no reason to expect that in a free and open political arena current behemoth would perform anywhere near the results that they get in the environment created by hands for them to succeed, excluding any meaningful competition. Give it a few cycles, two or three.

11 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Where is tha absence of openess and fairness?

And that (above) answers your question. Primarily, it's the most severe restriction of available choice, not on paper, but in real, visible results. In fact, only one step less severe than that of the dictators. And then, even some of them will show you some pet parody of "political competition".

Edited June 24, 2022 by myata