School Boards Promoting Homosexuality?

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Somewhat?  But I thought we ignored our instincts at our peril.  
 

Can instincts be wrong?

I don't know. I know BLM is extremely tribal and look what it produced. So in today's small, more mixed society, perhaps we need to learn to deal better with some instincts.

[TreeBeard]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I don't know. I know BLM is extremely tribal and look what it produced. So in today's small, more mixed society, perhaps we need to learn to deal better with some instincts.

So then our instincts shouldn’t be how we get our morals?  We agree.  

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So then our instincts shouldn’t be how we get our morals?  We agree.  

Of course not.  Collective morality has meant group rules, reflexivity and so on - ie. civilization.  You can find the scrolls from ancient Sumaria where they prohibit murder and so on.  Collective morality allowed us to gather in tribes, then in cities, then nations.

Just because I have an urge to punch somebody with a MAGA hat doesn't make it ok .... 

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So then our instincts shouldn’t be how we get our morals?  We agree.  

No...we don't. Our instincts are invaluable. All I'm saying is, we might wanna learn to "temper" them a bit in some cases.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Nationalist

[TreeBeard]

23 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

No...we don't. Our instincts are invaluable. All I'm saying is, we might wanna learn to "temper" them a bit in some cases.

If we need to temper them, then obviously they aren’t good to use as a moral system.  What do we temper them with…. More instincts?   
 

Your assertion that instincts are what we use as a moral system is deeply flawed.  

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

If we need to temper them, then obviously they aren’t good to use as a moral system.  What do we temper them with…. More instincts?   
 

Your assertion that instincts are what we use as a moral system is deeply flawed.  

Your interpretation of what I mean is deeply flawed. Maybe that's my fault.

Instincts will send you messages...fight...flight...accept...reject...etc. They must be listened to as these instincts are responsible for our survival. However we can use our own judgment as to how we react to these instincts. Maybe this example will help...

You meet a man, dressed like a woman. Your instincts will likely tell you that you've met with a strange person and you might wanna shun said person. But your intellect may tell you to slow down and see if this strange person is actually some sort of danger to you. Of course, this is a double-edged sword because, there are cases when should you hesitate, as your intellect instructs...you may well wind up screwed...so to speak...

Edited September 7, 2022 by Nationalist

[TreeBeard]

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Your interpretation of what I mean is deeply flawed. Maybe that's my fault.

Instincts will send you messages...fight...flight...accept...reject...etc. They must be listened to as these instincts are responsible for our survival. However we can use our own judgment as to how we react to these instincts. Maybe this example will help...

You meet a man, dressed like a woman. Your instincts will likely tell you that you've met with a strange person and you might wanna shun said person. But your intellect may tell you to slow down and see if this strange person is actually some sort of danger to you. Of course, this is a double-edged sword because, there are cases when should you hesitate, as your intellect instructs...you may well wind up screwed...so to speak...

Your example has nothing to do with morals or a moral system and you seem obsessed with “men dressed as women”.  

[Nationalist]

53 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Your example has nothing to do with morals or a moral system and you seem obsessed with “men dressed as women”.  

See the title of this thread...

and it has everything to do with morals. sorry you can't see that.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Your interpretation of what I mean is deeply flawed. Maybe that's my fault.

Instincts will send you messages...fight...flight...accept...reject...etc. They must be listened to as these instincts are responsible for our survival. However we can use our own judgment as to how we react to these instincts. Maybe this example will help...

You meet a man, dressed like a woman. Your instincts will likely tell you that you've met with a strange person and you might wanna shun said person. But your intellect may tell you to slow down and see if this strange person is actually some sort of danger to you. Of course, this is a double-edged sword because, there are cases when should you hesitate, as your intellect instructs...you may well wind up screwed...so to speak...

Instinct is critical for survival.  We see/hear something that causes discomfort and our fight/flight kicks in.  If we seem to be safe in the moment, we can think through our reaction based on further data.  We ascertain whether the individual is generally non-threatening and gather more information as needed. Because most of us are busy, we don’t have time to hear people’s life stories and must assess quickly what is worth our time and attention.  Sometimes a sentence or two tells quite a bit about a person.  We gravitate towards what we like and value.  We can tolerate people with very different views and behaviours that clash with our own, but we don’t have to like them.  Even if we lie and pretend to embrace what we don’t like verbally, actions speak louder than words, which is why the first question I ask when someone starts extolling the virtues of a member of a particular group is, How many friends from this group do you have?

[Nationalist]

37 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Instinct is critical for survival.  We see/hear something that causes discomfort and our fight/flight kicks in.  If we seem to be safe in the moment, we can think through our reaction based on further data.  We ascertain whether the individual is generally non-threatening and gather more information as needed. Because most of us are busy, we don’t have time to hear people’s life stories and must assess quickly what is worth our time and attention.  Sometimes a sentence or two tells quite a bit about a person.  We gravitate towards what we like and value.  We can tolerate people with very different views and behaviours that clash with our own, but we don’t have to like them.  Even if we lie and pretend to embrace what we don’t like verbally, actions speak louder than words, which is why the first question I ask when someone starts extolling the virtues of a member of a particular group is, How many friends from this group do you have?

Well...I have no "followers" in this site...but I have more "friends" than Carter has Little Liver Pills in life.

My point is, morality and instinct are intertwined. There are very good reasons why humans react to things the way they do. Such as...the moral imperative to reproduce, stems from the survival instinct.

[TreeBeard]

17 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

the moral imperative to reproduce, stems from the survival instinct.

What makes it a moral imperative and not just an instinct?  
 

[Nationalist]

20 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

What makes it a moral imperative and not just an instinct?  
 

History.

The societies...like all of them...that humans have had through the ages, made a big deal out of reproduction. So much so that they all have had some sort of joining ceremony. Up until recently, unwed mothers were sort of looked down on...pitied. Hell some people still feel that way. I know I feel the pity still. This moral judgment...if you will...is a direct result of the instinct.

[Zeitgeist]

23 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Well...I have no "followers" in this site...but I have more "friends" than Carter has Little Liver Pills in life.

My point is, morality and instinct are intertwined. There are very good reasons why humans react to things the way they do. Such as...the moral imperative to reproduce, stems from the survival instinct.

Absolutely.  These are survival instincts that natural selection and mutation have preferred over thousands of years.  That’s why I always look more to what people do than what they say.  Some of the wokest sounding people I know are the most hypocritical in their actual behaviour.  The worst leadership expression ever is “Do as I say, not as I do.”

[Zeitgeist]

35 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

What makes it a moral imperative and not just an instinct?  
 

Ha, so morality has value beyond mere pleasure seeking after all?

[TreeBeard]

5 hours ago, Nationalist said:

History.

The societies...like all of them...that humans have had through the ages, made a big deal out of reproduction. So much so that they all have had some sort of joining ceremony. Up until recently, unwed mothers were sort of looked down on...pitied. Hell some people still feel that way. I know I feel the pity still. This moral judgment...if you will...is a direct result of the instinct.

History is not a good way to determine morality.  Otherwise, we would still have things like slavery.  
 

People may have thought that having children was a moral virtue, and that unwed mothers should be looked down upon, but, like slavery, it turns out their moral judgement was wrong.  

[TreeBeard]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Ha, so morality has value beyond mere pleasure seeking after all?

I’ve never claimed that morality is unimportant.  I think it’s all important.  Way too important to let history or instincts be how we determine them.  
 

The pleasure seeking nonsense was something you projected onto me, not a statement that I’ve ever made.  

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

History is not a good way to determine morality.  Otherwise, we would still have things like slavery.  
 

People may have thought that having children was a moral virtue, and that unwed mothers should be looked down upon, but, like slavery, it turns out their moral judgement was wrong.  

Wrong? Single motherhood is better than both parents?

[dialamah]

15 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Wrong? Single motherhood is better than both parents?

Not even close to what he wrote. 

[TreeBeard]

50 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Not even close to what he wrote. 

Yes. A very dishonest interlocutor.

@Nationalist knows that’s not even close to what I said.  

Edited September 8, 2022 by TreeBeard

[herbie]

Just came back from a wedding reception for an old friends daughter. Her daughter introduced me to her big brother who was once her big sister who worked for me years ago, and his trans spouse who used to be a he.

The hosts daughter sat with us, she's gay. Her spouse looks very butch but identifies as a gay woman.

The host pointed out another guy, who was with a woman at least 20 years older than him. She did so because HE was wearing fishnet stockings, and my brain just assumed by the way they were standing that those were her legs, not his.

Big brother and his gf were so thrilled when I said I still had a paper mache dragon 'she' had made in Grade 10 they hauled me outside to check out their new Tesla and we spent half an hour talking and being shown all it's features. They'd driven way farther than me to get to the party in it.

FFS it's 2022 the world is different. From me and the Mom, once an item and both single again being more interested in the damn 11 o'clock news and nodding out, to the 'kids' of all identities who'd wear out the words censors on this forum within 5 minutes into a flaming heap to a 62 yr old host that skipped out to a 'more fun' party until dawn.

Nobody cares if you 'don't like it', that's the way it is.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, herbie said:

Nobody cares if you 'don't like it', that's the way it is.

Sounds like freedom to me.

[Zeitgeist]

On 9/11/2022 at 11:05 PM, herbie said:

Just came back from a wedding reception for an old friends daughter. Her daughter introduced me to her big brother who was once her big sister who worked for me years ago, and his trans spouse who used to be a he.

The hosts daughter sat with us, she's gay. Her spouse looks very butch but identifies as a gay woman.

The host pointed out another guy, who was with a woman at least 20 years older than him. She did so because HE was wearing fishnet stockings, and my brain just assumed by the way they were standing that those were her legs, not his.

Big brother and his gf were so thrilled when I said I still had a paper mache dragon 'she' had made in Grade 10 they hauled me outside to check out their new Tesla and we spent half an hour talking and being shown all it's features. They'd driven way farther than me to get to the party in it.

FFS it's 2022 the world is different. From me and the Mom, once an item and both single again being more interested in the damn 11 o'clock news and nodding out, to the 'kids' of all identities who'd wear out the words censors on this forum within 5 minutes into a flaming heap to a 62 yr old host that skipped out to a 'more fun' party until dawn.

Nobody cares if you 'don't like it', that's the way it is.

Are you trying to sell this ball of confusion?  

[TreeBeard]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Are you trying to sell this ball of confusion?  

Why do you hate individual freedom?

[Zeitgeist]

5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Why do you hate individual freedom?

You’re unable to discern between behaviours.  All are of equal value to you, which makes you a nihilist.  You’re the man at the beginning of L’etranger:”My mother died today, or was it yesterday?”  Freedom without purpose is meaninglessness.  Didn’t you complete your existentialist phase in young adulthood?  I can’t debate someone for whom nothing matters.

[Jack9000]

On 5/27/2022 at 7:54 PM, Faramir said:

Should the lunatics run the asylum?  Hell no.  It is quite clear that school boards want to push every woke idea that is in fashion these days.  Thank God my kids are in Christian private school - but they still push woke ideas like global warming and a bit of nonsense like cultural appropriation. 

neither of those things are ""woke" lol..